Will the R5000HD 169time.com products work with SageTV 6.1?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

SageTV by default uses .mpg as file extension for ATSC OTA recordings. What am i supposed to set in the R5000 DVR app if I want the extentions to be mpg (like all my over the air recordings). Do I still have to set it to .TS anyway and let SageTV convert the original transport stream to a an mpg file?

I will leave all other options at their defaults and ONLY change the STB/provider settings.

They will be recorded as .mpg's too. Again, Sage controls the naming of the file. The question is whether or not the R5000-HD will generate a transport stream data flow, which is what you want. Sage with 6.1 processes ts files as .mpg's just fine. It works fine for me.

I assume your setup already plays HD just fine, so more HD coming in from the R5000 will not force to to twiddle with renders etc... The great thing about the R5000-HD in a cable box is that it's all MPEG2. Nice and easy.

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

It's all working. Channels changes are quick. TV Guide is fully populated and all channels work.

I was a little bit confused as to what audio input to use for USB device when selecting the network encoder. There was nothing in the installation procedure about this. I guessed and selected BDA MPE Filter. There was another BDA option. Is this the right one?

Okay, I found the PPV channels in the guide. Which ones are in HD?

PS: Does anyone have San Francisco Comcast Logos (including HD channels)? I found some on this forum, but it only had one HD channel logo.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

It's all working. Channels changes are quick. TV Guide is fully populated and all channels work.

I was a little bit confused as to what audio input to use for USB device when selecting the network encoder. There was nothing in the installation procedure about this. I guessed and selected BDA MPE Filter. There was another BDA option. Is this the right one?

Okay, I found the PPV channels in the guide. Which ones are in HD?

PS: Does anyone have San Francisco Comcast Logos (including HD channels)? I found some on this forum, but it only had one HD channel logo.

Congrats!! So you have Sage now able to view and record any SD and HD channel?

Audio decoding should be done by Sage as standard multimedia playback. Once you select the tuner, I didn't remember it asking anything about audio... It probably doesn't matter. Audio is coming from the sound track on the MPEG video.

Not too many PPV is in HD, you can get that mostly now through ondemand. Not that Sage can do anything with on demand. You can set up Sage to do a manual record and trigger the VOD manually from a remote, but it's clunky.

So, are you glad you did it? Did I steer you wrong? :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Hey Mike. I am not able to view and record any Comcast channel SD or HD. All thanks to you!

If I try to watch a PPV channel before ordering it, it crashes the R5000HD app.

So how do you do On Demand via the cablebox remote? When I press on Demand, obviously, I'm not going to get any menus. How do I navigate to what I want to watch or order? If it's a sequence of remote control commands that are the same every time, I can easily program that into my fancy remote control.

Originally Posted by mikesm

Congrats!! So you have Sage now able to view and record any SD and HD channel?

Audio decoding should be done by Sage as standard multimedia playback. Once you select the tuner, I didn't remember it asking anything about audio... It probably doesn't matter. Audio is coming from the sound track on the MPEG video.

Not too many PPV is in HD, you can get that mostly now through ondemand. Not that Sage can do anything with on demand. You can set up Sage to do a manual record and trigger the VOD manually from a remote, but it's clunky.

So, are you glad you did it? Did I steer you wrong? :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Hey Mike. I am not able to view and record any Comcast channel SD or HD. All thanks to you!

If I try to watch a PPV channel before ordering it, it crashes the R5000HD app.

So how do you do On Demand via the cablebox remote? When I press on Demand, obviously, I'm not going to get any menus. How do I navigate to what I want to watch or order? If it's a sequence of remote control commands that are the same every time, I can easily program that into my fancy remote control.

I hope you meant "now" instead of "not" :-)

You can't do PPV through Sage. You have to use the video out of the box to your TV, and start it as if Sage didn't exist.

Dunno why the R5000-HD app would crash though - better send them email about it, their support is pretty good!

Is this a lot better than that crappy cablecard MCE system? :-)

Thanks
mike

[mkanet]

Yes i meant "now"

I emailed support with my questions. It could also be the fact that I'm using the beta version of the R5000HD app.

I would have been miserable with a cablecard MCE system. After an hour of getting it to work, my brother asked me to edit a 15 second clip from ESPN-HD for him.

I don't want to go to bed, this is so good to be true! Thanks MIKE!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by mikesm

I hope you meant "now" instead of "not" :-)

You can't do PPV through Sage. You have to use the video out of the box to your TV, and start it as if Sage didn't exist.

Dunno why the R5000-HD app would crash though - better send them email about it, their support is pretty good!

Is this a lot better than that crappy cablecard MCE system? :-)

Thanks
mike

[mkanet]

Mike (or anyone) can you please tell me what you have set for their "Audio Input" for the R5000 Network Encoder? It's a big mystery to me what the correct setting is there. I emailed Netcom Wireless yesterday with questions, but they never heard back from them. I'm not sure if they are off during the weekends or not.

Thanks in advance!
Michael

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Mike (or anyone) can you please tell me what you have set for their "Audio Input" for the R5000 Network Encoder? It's a big mystery to me what the correct setting is there. I emailed Netcom Wireless yesterday with questions, but they never heard back from them. I'm not sure if they are off during the weekends or not.

Thanks in advance!
Michael

The version I am using, 2.4f doesn't have that option. It may not be an issue for cable. If it works, don't worry about it...

thx
mike

[mkanet]

Mike, have you actually recorded something in VOD? There are times when I'm going to be VERY motivated to manually record a VOD show if its reasonable. Could you please tell me exactly how I would do this? I pressed the ON DEMAND button on my cable box, but nothing appeared to happen in SageTV. Is there a way (even clunky) to get this to work? I'm not sure what would happen in circumstances where the network encoder is already recording something or is scheduled to record something while I'm trying to record an On Demand show. I know there's a channel 1 on my TV guide which is called On Demand. Is it even possible to do this without seeing the cablebox's OSD menu? I wonder how motivated the R5000 person would be to add this support in SageTV.

I'm just trying to find the most systematic way to do this.

-Michael

Originally Posted by mikesm

Not too many PPV is in HD, you can get that mostly now through ondemand. Not that Sage can do anything with on demand. You can set up Sage to do a manual record and trigger the VOD manually from a remote, but it's clunky.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Mike, have you actually recorded something in VOD? There are times when I'm going to be VERY motivated to manually record a VOD show if its reasonable. Could you please tell me exactly how I would do this? I pressed the ON DEMAND button on my cable box, but nothing appeared to happen in SageTV. Is there a way (even clunky) to get this to work? I'm not sure what would happen in circumstances where the network encoder is already recording something or is scheduled to record something while I'm trying to record an On Demand show. I know there's a channel 1 on my TV guide which is called On Demand. Is it even possible to do this without seeing the cablebox's OSD menu? I wonder how motivated the R5000 person would be to add this support in SageTV.

I'm just trying to find the most systematic way to do this.

-Michael

I haven't done this, but I can give you some information that may help in developing a workaround.

First off, the protocol that the STB uses to signal to the headend to send an ondemand stream (and in our area, all PPV is ondemand) is proprietary, so Sage can't speak it. Not even cablecard equipped PC's can speak it. You have to have a STB in the loop, or there is no way of dealing with it.

Now, you haev an STB. So that's step 1. Next, you have have noticed that when you change to channel 1, you don't see the usual menu on displayed with sage. That's because the menu and such is all provided by a graphical overlay on top of the video output. That is to say, the R5000-HD taps the data going to the MPEF decoder. But none of the menu stuff is done by inserting MPEG frames in the live video. So you don't see any menus. It's all in an overlay plane that is mixed by the STB output electronics to show up on your display. This is why it looks so crappy - it's not being produced by the hires MPEG decoder.

This btw is the same reason you don't see program guide info recorded by the R5000-HD. All that is done by the overlay video processor. So there is no way you will ever see a menu caputed by Sage on the R5000.

Now, here's what I would try. First, you need to hook your STB DIRECTLY to the TV, in the "normal way". Pretend sage didn't exist. You could use component video or whatever you like. Doesn't really matter. Next, you tell sage to do a manual recording of channel 1 for however long the program is.

When Sage commands the R5000 to tune to channel 1 at the start of the PPV program, you switch your TV's input away from Sage to the direct connection to your DCT. You will see the normal ondemand menu on your TV. Sage will see no video because theere is no MPEG stream being sent by the network that the R5000 would tap off. It'll will say no signal.

Now, using the STB's remote, you select the program of interest, and say you'll pay xxx, etc... At this point the video content will actually be sent to the box, and the box should start displaying your program. The R5000 will copy this MPEG stream, send it to Sage, and now sage will see the MPEG data and should begin to display it. At this point, you switch the TV back to Sage, and watch as Sage records your program.

If Sage aborts the record before you can initiate the PPV stream, then you may have to mess with properties to affect it.

This is about the only way I can see Sage being to record a PPV program, R5000-HD notwithstanding.

Does that all make sense?

Thanks,
mike

[mkanet]

Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this. It made perfect sense from beginning to end. It's pretty close to the way I thought it might be. Except, I didn't think it would be necessary to disconnect the cablebox from the PC before connecting it to the TV directly. Perhaps, its still possible to keep everything the way it is.. plug the analog video output of the cablebox directly to another input on my TV, order on demand via my cablebox remote via the ugly cablebox OSD... then record channel 1 with sageTV.

The more I think about it, the more I realize this isn't practical for normal use. No matter what, we have to be able to navigate through the cablebox overlayed demand menus. These menus also provide programming information which is not available via Internet.

I'm hoping that if VOD starts to become a trend and much more popular; that, there's some possibility of support for it via the R5000 SageTV plugin.

BTW: Before I forget... something completely unrelated... did you know that if you have two different lineups and both lineups label some of their channels with the same names, the SageTV guide can only support one of them? I couldn't figure out a way to get same name channels to show up. For example you can't have (KNTVHD 12-1 and KNTVHD 702) to exist in the same guide.

Originally Posted by mikesm

I haven't done this, but I can give you some information that may help in developing a workaround.

First off, the protocol that the STB uses to signal to the headend to send an ondemand stream (and in our area, all PPV is ondemand) is proprietary, so Sage can't speak it. Not even cablecard equipped PC's can speak it. You have to have a STB in the loop, or there is no way of dealing with it.

Now, you haev an STB. So that's step 1. Next, you have have noticed that when you change to channel 1, you don't see the usual menu on displayed with sage. That's because the menu and such is all provided by a graphical overlay on top of the video output. That is to say, the R5000-HD taps the data going to the MPEF decoder. But none of the menu stuff is done by inserting MPEG frames in the live video. So you don't see any menus. It's all in an overlay plane that is mixed by the STB output electronics to show up on your display. This is why it looks so crappy - it's not being produced by the hires MPEG decoder.

This btw is the same reason you don't see program guide info recorded by the R5000-HD. All that is done by the overlay video processor. So there is no way you will ever see a menu caputed by Sage on the R5000.

Now, here's what I would try. First, you need to hook your STB DIRECTLY to the TV, in the "normal way". Pretend sage didn't exist. You could use component video or whatever you like. Doesn't really matter. Next, you tell sage to do a manual recording of channel 1 for however long the program is.

When Sage commands the R5000 to tune to channel 1 at the start of the PPV program, you switch your TV's input away from Sage to the direct connection to your DCT. You will see the normal ondemand menu on your TV. Sage will see no video because theere is no MPEG stream being sent by the network that the R5000 would tap off. It'll will say no signal.

Now, using the STB's remote, you select the program of interest, and say you'll pay xxx, etc... At this point the video content will actually be sent to the box, and the box should start displaying your program. The R5000 will copy this MPEG stream, send it to Sage, and now sage will see the MPEG data and should begin to display it. At this point, you switch the TV back to Sage, and watch as Sage records your program.

If Sage aborts the record before you can initiate the PPV stream, then you may have to mess with properties to affect it.

This is about the only way I can see Sage being to record a PPV program, R5000-HD notwithstanding.

Does that all make sense?

Thanks,
mike

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this. It made perfect sense from beginning to end. It's pretty close to the way I thought it might be. Except, I didn't think it would be necessary to disconnect the cablebox from the PC before connecting it to the TV directly. Perhaps, its still possible to keep everything the way it is.. plug the analog video output of the cablebox directly to another input on my TV, order on demand via my cablebox remote via the ugly cablebox OSD... then record channel 1 with sageTV.

I don't think Mike was saying to physically disconnect the cablebox (STB) from the PC, but to hook the STB directly to the TV in addition to the connection to the PC. Use an analog connection to the the TV and use the TV remote to switch the viewed input from the TV's PC connection to the TV's STB connection

BTW: Before I forget... something completely unrelated... did you know that if you have two different lineups and both lineups label some of their channels with the same names, the SageTV guide can only support one of them? I couldn't figure out a way to get same name channels to show up. For example you can't have (KNTVHD 12-1 and KNTVHD 702) to exist in the same guide.

As long as the content is the same on KNTVHD 12-1 and KNTVHD 702 ,then Sage will combine both listings in the EPG, but both 12-1 and 702 are available for Sage to record from.

[mkanet]

That's weird, for some reason only one can be displayed in my guide. I have two identical OTA ATSC capture devices which include KNTVHD 12.1 in their lineup. If I include KNTVHD 702 from my network encoder cablebox from a different lineup, KNTVHD 12.1 will not be displayed anymore... and therefore , neither OTA tuners will be available to record. Both lineups' KNTVHD's have the same programming info. There really isn't anything to adjust or change to make it behave any differently. I already tried taking out both lineups and respective encoder settings out of the properties file and add the capture devices and line ups again... every time it results in the same thing.

Originally Posted by ke6guj

As long as the content is the same on KNTVHD 12-1 and KNTVHD 702 ,then Sage will combine both listings in the EPG, but both 12-1 and 702 are available for Sage to record from.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by mkanet

That's weird, for some reason only one can be displayed in my guide.

Thats the way it works.

I have two identical OTA ATSC capture devices which include KNTVHD 12.1 in their lineup. If I include KNTVHD 702 from my network encoder cablebox from a different lineup, KNTVHD 12.1 will not be displayed anymore... and therefore , neither OTA tuners will be available to record.

Are you sure it won't be able to record on the OTA? Have you tried to tie up the R5000 with another recording and then tried to record KNTVHD? It would have to use one of the OTAs. Sage knows that it can record KNTVHD on 12.1 if it needs to, even if it doesn't show it in the EPG.

Both lineups' KNTVHD's have the same programming info. There really isn't anything to adjust or change to make it behave any differently. I already tried taking out both lineups and respective encoder settings out of the properties file and add the capture devices and line ups again... every time it results in the same thing.

I wish Sage would give us more flexibility in displaying duplicate channels, but they don't. They just display each station (by callsign) once, no matter how many different sources may have it.


Now, if you are wanting to prefer to record KNTVHD on your OTA tuners instead of your R5000, then you can adjust encoder_merit on the tuners to prefer the OTA tuners and to keep the R5000 in reserve. That is what I do. I prefer my HDHRs two QAM tuners to record the majority of my programming and keep my FW'ed STB in reserve so that it can be used to watch any of my available programming. If if used my STB first, then if I wanted to watch HBO, I'd be out of luck since my HDHR can't get it.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this. It made perfect sense from beginning to end. It's pretty close to the way I thought it might be. Except, I didn't think it would be necessary to disconnect the cablebox from the PC before connecting it to the TV directly. Perhaps, its still possible to keep everything the way it is.. plug the analog video output of the cablebox directly to another input on my TV, order on demand via my cablebox remote via the ugly cablebox OSD... then record channel 1 with sageTV.

The more I think about it, the more I realize this isn't practical for normal use. No matter what, we have to be able to navigate through the cablebox overlayed demand menus. These menus also provide programming information which is not available via Internet.

I'm hoping that if VOD starts to become a trend and much more popular; that, there's some possibility of support for it via the R5000 SageTV plugin.

BTW: Before I forget... something completely unrelated... did you know that if you have two different lineups and both lineups label some of their channels with the same names, the SageTV guide can only support one of them? I couldn't figure out a way to get same name channels to show up. For example you can't have (KNTVHD 12-1 and KNTVHD 702) to exist in the same guide.

Jack is right about the guide and the switching of the video. You don't need to disconnect sage, just tell the Tv to switch inputs directly to the DCT.

I have my HD HR tuners set to a higher merit than the R5000, so they will be used ahead of the R5000 if they are tuning the same channel. The same channel is NOT defined by the channel number (12-1 vs 702), but in the station ID that Sage uses to look up the program. So it should all work fine despite what it looks like in the guide.

Also, I don't think there is an elegant solution for the PPV problem. I did think about connecting another tuner to the analog out of the DCT, doing a frame grab and then running OCR across the frame grab to pick up menu selections, and then presenting them in the Sage UI. This would give Sage the ability to display options for ondemand to the user, and possibly even trigger automatic recording.

But this would cost a tuner and be a heck of a lot of work. It would differentiate it though!

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

You know, I got spoiled with the beta version of R5000 DVR app. The time it takes to change channels is sometimes as low as 2-3 seconds! However, I found a problem with it that made me switch to version 2.4. With version 2.4, I'm finding out that the first 2-4 seconds of the scheduled recording is cut off due to the slower channel change. Is there a way to have recordings from the R5000 start a few seconds earlier? I can do it per recording basis, but wanted a way to do it for all R5000 recordings. If there's no way to do it just for the R5000 recordings, how do I do it for all recordings? I dont mind if my OTA recordings start a few seconds earlier... but I would want them to not end earlier as well. Changing the system time to my machine wont work, its currently synched to the correct time (down to the second) via internet... polled once a day. Any ideas or suggestions... until version 2.5 is non-beta?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mkanet

You know, I got spoiled with the beta version of R5000 DVR app. The time it takes to change channels is sometimes as low as 2-3 seconds! However, I found a problem with it that made me switch to version 2.4. With version 2.4, I'm finding out that the first 2-4 seconds of the scheduled recording is cut off due to the slower channel change. Is there a way to have recordings from the R5000 start a few seconds earlier? I can do it per recording basis, but wanted a way to do it for all R5000 recordings. If there's no way to do it just for the R5000 recordings, how do I do it for all recordings? I dont mind if my OTA recordings start a few seconds earlier... but I would want them to not end earlier as well. Changing the system time to my machine wont work, its currently synched to the correct time (down to the second) via internet... polled once a day. Any ideas or suggestions... until version 2.5 is non-beta?

Did you try and tell sage via the properties file that this tuner is slow to change channels? I don't know if that adjusts the start time for the tuner accordingly, but it's worth a shot.

I haven't see the issue with 2.4's channel change time causing a loss of programming, but I also haven't adjusted the properties etc...

Thanks,
Mike

[mkanet]

Version 2.5d (non-beta) just came out. It's recommended by R5000 support to use this. It's in their download area.

Originally Posted by mikesm

Did you try and tell sage via the properties file that this tuner is slow to change channels? I don't know if that adjusts the start time for the tuner accordingly, but it's worth a shot.

I haven't see the issue with 2.4's channel change time causing a loss of programming, but I also haven't adjusted the properties etc...

Thanks,
Mike

[popechild]

I think you can only set Sage to start/end shows early in 1 minute increments. I tried to set everything up this way (be default my favorites would start AND end 1 minute early) because all my local OTAs seem to start everything about 20 seconds before the "official" Sage/internet time, but it didn't handle it very well. There were some bugs that I never completely got sorted out. I would be careful trying to start everything a minute early and not end it a minute early, because then you're going to run into a bunch of conflicts from back to back shows (and if they're not on the same channel, the "remove padding for back to back shows" option won't help you.

What I ended up doing is using an atomic clock utility to sync my system daily via internet, that provides for a way to adjust the time in seconds. So when it checks internet time and sees 8:00:00, it actually sets my system time to 8:00:20, so Sage starts recording (and stops) 20 seconds before it normally would if it was syncing time itself. Don't know if that'll help, but it seems to have helped me.

[mkanet]

EDIT: I spoke too soon. Major channel changing bug. Mentioned here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&goto=newpostI'm having a hard time getting R5000 support to reply to my emails though.

Yes, I have an atomic clock utility too. However, I can't force it to change from the real time. This isn't an issue for me anymore since I just switch to latest version (2.5d final)which is supposed very fast and without any noticeable bugs.

I have a bunch of back to back movies set to see how it handles them...

Originally Posted by popechild

I think you can only set Sage to start/end shows early in 1 minute increments. I tried to set everything up this way (be default my favorites would start AND end 1 minute early) because all my local OTAs seem to start everything about 20 seconds before the "official" Sage/internet time, but it didn't handle it very well. There were some bugs that I never completely got sorted out. I would be careful trying to start everything a minute early and not end it a minute early, because then you're going to run into a bunch of conflicts from back to back shows (and if they're not on the same channel, the "remove padding for back to back shows" option won't help you.

What I ended up doing is using an atomic clock utility to sync my system daily via internet, that provides for a way to adjust the time in seconds. So when it checks internet time and sees 8:00:00, it actually sets my system time to 8:00:20, so Sage starts recording (and stops) 20 seconds before it normally would if it was syncing time itself. Don't know if that'll help, but it seems to have helped me.