Onair GT, 6.1.8 and tssplitter.ax Crashes

[pianophase]

I have a machine with an OnAir GT as well as two ntsc mpeg2 cards. My sage app (or service depending on mode) will run from 5-30 minutes and then crash. If I attempt to scan channels QAM channels, it will crash around channel 100.

I started getting the problems so rebuilt the system twice (once with vista, once with XP) and I am still getting the problem. I finally removed the OnAir GT adapter from the Sage TV sources and all is okay for now.

I've tried both Java 1.4.2 and Java 1.6 Update 1. Both seem to have the same problem. It is always results in a crash focused on module tssplitter.ax.

I'm using the latest version of the Autumnwave driver 3.0.1.

Any ideas?

[Eckwell]

I am having the exact same problem we the OnAir USB GT as my only card. I was getting stuttering playback problems so...

I uninstalled SageTV, and GBPVR that I had tried, Including deleting ALL of the configuration files, etc.

I uninstalled all of the instances of the GT that had been registered in the Device Manager during Driver updating and unplugging as documented here:
http://www.autumnwave.com/index.php?...=43&Itemid=179

I then updated the NVidia PureVideo via the OEM update (Search Google) to the June 2006 version (which may have already been the one I had).

Then I reinstalled SageTV and did a channel search for only the analog channels and it found them rather quickly. I then did a Digital scan of the Cable line (QAM) to pick up those channels and it crashed with the same error mentioned above. Paraphrased --> "SageTV.exe must be closed mod:tssplitter.ax"

I restarted and went to the program guide and it found a lot fo the channels, but not all of them. I think the ones that are true HD did not get found. I left it playing an Analog channel ALL NIGHT and it did not crash.

I have the latest Java build installed 1.6, the lastest Sage TV 6.1.8, adn the latest GT Driver 3.0.0.1 all running on an XP box with almost nothing else installed. Nvidia 6200 video card.

HELP?

I was going to try to update the tssplitter file but don't know where to start.

BTW - The stuttering is GONE and the Audio is good. (2 channel on teh PC - not checking 5.1 or anything yet)

Eckwell

[Eckwell]

I was able to get rid of the SageTV Crash by uninstalling both Java 1.4.2 and Java 1.6, and then reinstalling Java 1.6. I think there is a problem with the OnAir GT Drivers and SageTV both using Java 1.6. I am going to try a Java 1.5 version to try to fix it.

One another note, my HD channels (which I was able to complete a scan for!) seem squashed into the screen. After one scan they seemed fine, but after another they didn't. Need to figure this out... any ideas?

[pianophase]

I was so frustrated with the OnAir, I broke down and purchased the HDHomeRun. Everything has perfectly smooth with that. No crashes, got all the HD Qam channels.

Eckwell, One of the times, I tried just using the 1.6 install and still had the problems on my side. As you said, analog is just fine. However, the moment you tune the digital channels, there is a problem.

[oddjob]

Originally Posted by pianophase

I was so frustrated with the OnAir, I broke down and purchased the HDHomeRun. Everything has perfectly smooth with that. No crashes, got all the HD Qam channels.

Eckwell, One of the times, I tried just using the 1.6 install and still had the problems on my side. As you said, analog is just fine. However, the moment you tune the digital channels, there is a problem.

Me too! I wish I could get my money back.

OnAir was too problematic.
HDhomerun was easy to install and works great!

[srothwell]

Same issue. I have two GT's and had the exact same problem. However, I seem to have traced it down to what video decoder I've been using. I was using the Intervideo (from WinDVD8) and I would get all the same core and UI crashes exactly as folks here have described.

However, when I moved to the Nvidia decoder, all the crashes stopped. Now, I want to get whatever the problem is fixed as I think the Intervideo decoder looks better than Nvidia.

Please be sure to send a PM to "Donkey" as he is the guy (name is Qian) who writes the TSSplitter, etc code for Sage. He is a teriffic guy and will do anything to help.

I would also make sure to send a bug report to the folks at Sage. Until it's in a bug report, it doesn't really exist.

Best regards,

Stacy

[rpertusio]

Just to let you know, Donkey and I are communicating via email.

I don't really have any updates for you at this time... but I wanted you to know that I am aware of the issue and that I'm trying to figure out what might be causing the problem.

- Ryan Pertusio

AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
http://www.autumnwave.com/

[pianophase]

Hey rpertusio,

Any success on a fix for the Onair GT?

Thanks!

[Eckwell]

As I continue to get the GT and SageTV to play nice together...

Any word on the Tssplitter.ax research? I ask because it is happening again. I did a reinstall (again) and now it is poppin gup again because I put java 1.6 in. I am now going to uninstall it and put 1.4 back in and see what happens.

I will enable STV logging first.

let you know...

[Eckwell]

Well, it finally happened again, although I am not sure if the log is much help. I did notice that for some reason it tried to tune in an ATSC channel which is actually a QAM channel, but maybe you can make more of that. I may be making assumptions.

SageTV crashed with the same tssplitter.ax reason.

I attached the file sagetv_0.txt

Hope this helps?

[rpertusio]

Try using the nVidia Decoder.

We're not entirely sure what is causing it. However, Donkey believes it is that errors in the signal are causing the crashes. For instance:

Antenna/QAM Tuner > OnAir Driver > SageTV TS Splitter > Decoder
(The above is over-simplified. There's a lot more behind the scenes.)

If the signal drops, the Transport Stream (TS) is corrupted. The TS Splitter is not doing any error checking, so it passes along a corrupted stream to the decoder. In the case of the nVidia Decoder, it can handle such problems just fine. However, if you use another decoder, it may choke and fail when it encounters the problematic Transport Stream.

So... the problem can be in 3 places:
(1) The OnAir tuner - The tuner sends the stream, even if it is partial
(2) The TS Splitter (in SageTV) - Doesn't do any error checking. Passes along bad data
(3) The Decoder (other than nVidia) - Chokes on bad data

The workaround is to use the nVidia PureVideo Decoder. (A license is included with the OnAir GT.) Donkey & I are unsure of how to 'fix' the issue, though. Any error-checking would increase the CPU usage, so it is undesirable to add error-checking code to the driver or SageTV.

Another method of fixing it is to have InterVideo (and other decoder vendors) make their decoder more tolerant of stream data. However, this is not a 'quick fix' and there's no guarantee that InterVideo (and other vendors) would even care to fix their decoder.

- Ryan

[Eckwell]

Makes sense. Although I believe I was using the nVidia decoder at the time, but I am not absolutely sure. I did install CYberlink DVD as well, but I thought according to Graphedit it was still using the Nvidia decoder. I will try to keep researching as it occurs.

I did notice, however, that it tends to happen during the Channel Search (which would make sense) or when I am moving from an analog channel to a Digital QAM channel. Do you know of any specific bugs related to SageTV telling the tuner to switch from analog to Digital and back?

I stopped leveraging any analog channels and my SageTV / GT solution becam every stable. enough to actually test it out on the Plasma (finally...) and it worked well... Optical out to the receiver and everything.

So far, challanging, but I am learning a lot... and taking a lot of notes.

Now to figure out why all of a sudden the DVD player is giving me a Macrovision or CSS error! Cyberlink caused it I think...

Thanks for your continued assitance! patience...

[Eckwell]

It is STILL happening... even using teh NVidia Purevideo. I am so frustrated. Has there been any others here that found a solution?

[Eckwell]

Originally Posted by Eckwell

As I continue to get the GT and SageTV to play nice together...

Any word on the Tssplitter.ax research? I ask because it is happening again. I did a reinstall (again) and now it is poppin gup again because I put java 1.6 in. I am now going to uninstall it and put 1.4 back in and see what happens.

I will enable STV logging first.

let you know...

HELP!!!!

This is still happening and I can not figure out why. It is rendering using SageTV useless. Has anyone determined how to get the SageTV app or the Service app to stop crashing due to TSSplitter.ax?

I am using the NVidia video decoder with Onair USB GT still.

[mkanet]

I'm having the same problem when doing a channel scan of QAM channels it crashes every single time. Once in a while it makes it's way up to the very end. But then, I cant tune in PSIP'ed channels (friendly channel #'s). I can't return my OnAir GT's (I bought two of them). So, either SageTV is going to pay for my tuners or they will need to figure out how to make QAM work with these tuners on SageTV since this is listed in their support QAM tuners list. At least now I know it's not anything related to a specific machine; since it appears to easily be reproducible. I already emailed support@sageTV.com about this problem a day and a half ago. I'm wait to hear back their solution. It should be no surprise to them about this issue since I'm not the only one who has this problem.

-Michael

Originally Posted by pianophase

I have a machine with an OnAir GT as well as two ntsc mpeg2 cards. My sage app (or service depending on mode) will run from 5-30 minutes and then crash. If I attempt to scan channels QAM channels, it will crash around channel 100.

I started getting the problems so rebuilt the system twice (once with vista, once with XP) and I am still getting the problem. I finally removed the OnAir GT adapter from the Sage TV sources and all is okay for now.

I've tried both Java 1.4.2 and Java 1.6 Update 1. Both seem to have the same problem. It is always results in a crash focused on module tssplitter.ax.

I'm using the latest version of the Autumnwave driver 3.0.1.

Any ideas?

[srothwell]

mkanet,

I have been communicating with the folks at Sage for months on this issue.

As I understand it, it has to do with a PC that has a hyper-threaded CPU.

Before I started having problems, I had an AMD CPU which was not hyperthreaded. Then I upgraded to a CORE2 DUO and all hell broke loose.

Lots of crashes for no reason. To be honest, I can't completely remember what I did to compeltely fix it but (knock on wood) I haven't had too many problems the last few months (that have to do with the tuner) EXCEPT for the channel scan stuff.

Again, as I understand it, the sensitivity to hyperthreaded CPUs has to do with On-Air's BDA drivers. So I'm not sure you can put the blame on Sage.

Stacy

[mkanet]

Thanks Stacy, I'm wondering why SageTV support replied back to me last night as if they have never heard of this issue before. I bought two of these OnAir tuners based on the supported and test QAM tuners list the main SageTV site: http://www.sagetv.com/requirements.html?sageSub=tv

I put the blame on SageTV for claiming that it does work. Most modern PC's now have hyperthreading. So, it wouldn't really be acceptable to list this product as a working QAM tuner product under SageTV.

It currently doesnt work on my single core hyperthreaded PC. I am soon going to buy a quad core. If this product isn't able to work under either PC, I expect either the Onair or SageTV folks to pay for both of my useless OnAir tuners that I can't return.

Thanks again for your information, if it wasn't for this forum, I could never prove this was an easily reproducable issue.

-Michael

Originally Posted by srothwell

mkanet,

I have been communicating with the folks at Sage for months on this issue.

As I understand it, it has to do with a PC that has a hyper-threaded CPU.

Before I started having problems, I had an AMD CPU which was not hyperthreaded. Then I upgraded to a CORE2 DUO and all hell broke loose.

Lots of crashes for no reason. To be honest, I can't completely remember what I did to compeltely fix it but (knock on wood) I haven't had too many problems the last few months (that have to do with the tuner) EXCEPT for the channel scan stuff.

Again, as I understand it, the sensitivity to hyperthreaded CPUs has to do with On-Air's BDA drivers. So I'm not sure you can put the blame on Sage.

Stacy

[srothwell]

I'm sorry you're angry at Sage. I am not.

It is impossible to test every single scenerio with every single thing..... otherwise you'd have a mac in a completely closed environment.

The folks at Sage don't have every PC and every tuner out there. they rely on their first line of defense, the private beta testers, and then they ask everyone to test stuff before it's shipped out as a release.

To be fair, if they don't have the gear and none of us report it then......

I only found out after I had bought two of them and they worked fine for months and months until I upgraded my server.

Hang in there. The folks here are good and if a soution can be found that Sage can fix, I have every confidence that it will eventually be fixed.

Stacy

[mkanet]

Hi Stacy, it's not too hard to reproduce this issue apparently, since I've already seen it mentioned by other people on this forum from at least a couple of months ago. Since this is documented issue, SageTV should have removed this tuner from the list of compatible and tested tuners on SageTV's main website so people dont buy a product based on that... like me. Thats the whole point of the URL on sageTV website which lists compatible tuners.

But, I do appreciate your opinion and your response anyway.

Originally Posted by srothwell

I'm sorry you're angry at Sage. I am not.

It is impossible to test every single scenerio with every single thing..... otherwise you'd have a mac in a completely closed environment.

The folks at Sage don't have every PC and every tuner out there. they rely on their first line of defense, the private beta testers, and then they ask everyone to test stuff before it's shipped out as a release.

To be fair, if they don't have the gear and none of us report it then......

I only found out after I had bought two of them and they worked fine for months and months until I upgraded my server.

Hang in there. The folks here are good and if a soution can be found that Sage can fix, I have every confidence that it will eventually be fixed.

Stacy

[Eckwell]

Originally Posted by Eckwell

HELP!!!!

This is still happening and I can not figure out why. It is rendering using SageTV useless. Has anyone determined how to get the SageTV app or the Service app to stop crashing due to TSSplitter.ax?

I am using the NVidia video decoder with Onair USB GT still.

ISSUE RESOLVED (for now)

The error seems to have gone away after I went through and Disabled all of the channels found (using the channel setup screen) via the QAM scan that were still showing no signal. That includes a LOT of channels that were part of the COMCAST encrypted channels, VOD & PP channels, and some other junk. I now have only the basic QAM channels (Identified as E4_3, etc.) Since doing that I have not seen the issue in a week.

So perhaps it was a bad signal being passed from the OnAir from a dead channel that was still being "tuned" that confounded the tssplitter.ax file? Either way the issue is resolved for now.

Since then I have installed a Hauppauge 1600 along with the OnAir and have been recording without much issue. It even turns itself on and off out of Windows Standby (S3).

NOTE that I did NOT tune Analog channels with the Onair. ONLY QAM.

I also got rid of stuttering with the "How I got rid of siuttering" thread!!!

Now on to getting the Comskip and CC working (almost there!).

It's FUN again...