How I stopped VMR9 stuttering (including 1080i) and solved all my sound issues.

[allen]

I am hoping that someone can help me with the merits I have set. I tried following the instructions on the first post but I couldn't seem to get the Nvidia decoder to work be invoked so I lowered other merits and raised the NVIDIA merits higher and higher. Unfortunately, in my ultimate wisdom, I lost track of the changes I made and I end up with the attached graph.

Some background: I am using the most current release candidate of Sage. I have Ndivia DVD Decoder installed and am using a HDHomeRun to record my HD shows. I have a Nvidia 8600GTS Video card with some flavor of an Intel Core 2 Duo processor (don't remember which one, but plenty of horsepower). I am using FSE, DMR9 Rendering, with 3D Acceleration.

I downloaded FRAPS and it looks like I am getting about 44 FPS on a HD recording from the HDHomeRun. It looks like it is microstuttering- should I be getting higher FPS or is this about right?

The graph shows that it is gong from the NVIDIA Video Decoder and NVIDIA Audio Decoder to the MPEG-2 Demultiplexer. Is this normal? I ask because the instructions at the beginning of this post show it going to the Video Renderer for Video and the Default WaveOut Device for audio. Could this be part of my problem? I am wondering if I messed up the merits and the wrong filters are being used... If anyone has suggestions on how I need to change filter merits would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks for any help!
-Allen

[GollyJer]

Allen,
When I was messing with this stuff and screwed things up I would use System Restore to go back to a time when things weren't so messed up.

-Jeremy

[sclamage]

I'm struggling with similar issues myself right now, after recently upgrading to HD. I built my HTPC about 3 years ago, so I didn't expect my HTPC to give me smooth HD without some upgrading. But it seems tantalizingly close right now.

The relevant specs:
- Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
- Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton)
- Windows XP, SP2
- 512 MB RAM
- Radeon 9600XT (AGP 8x, 500 MHz core)
- HDHR
- WinTV-PVR-250
- VMR9, FSE on
- Latest Sage, latest Catalyst drivers, etc.

With this configuration, I can *almost* get smooth HD playback. It seems to depend on the content - some 1080i video plays perfectly if there's not a lot of movement, but motion and quick pans cause a lot of stuttering, like it's dropping every other frame. Likewise with 720p. And this is using the "Intervideo NonCSS Video Decoder for Hauppauge". I have a few other decoders installed, but they give even worse performance. I also tried the PureVideo trial and ran through the instructions at the beginning of this thread, and that gave me even *worse* results, with much longer pauses and even some video dropouts.

I also tried overclocking the CPU a bit to see if that would put me over the edge. That didn't fix it, and neither did overclocking the video card, the AGP bus, or the FSB. (And yes, I tried all of that together.)

I suspect it's not a CPU issue, because my CPU is not pegged when I'm playing video. It jumps around 40-80%, but it's not fixed at 100%. That leads me to believe that the bottleneck is elsewhere.

At this point, I'm thinking I have two options:
1. Perhaps the whole system is underpowered, so spend a bunch of money to rebuild from scratch it using the latest & greatest - new mobo, new CPU, new video card, faster RAM. I'd rather not do this, especially since I already spent a lot to get a new TV to begin with.
2. My configuration is pretty similar to GollyJer's, except he's using PureVideo and an nVidia card. I might see a quality boost from using PureVideo with my Radeon, but I'm missing out on the hardware acceleration. So maybe I can get away with just upgrading the video card.

The problem is that AGP cards are becoming harder to find these days. There is a decent selection of them on Newegg, but it seems like kind of a crapshoot unless I can get some confirmation that a particular card will solve my problem. And I really don't have time or energy to keep running back to Best Buy and returning video cards that don't help.

I'm also reluctant to get the most top-end card, since I'll probably be looking at a full hardware upgrade down the road a bit. After the whole BR/HD-DVD situation settles down, I'd like to build that into the system. And sure, I could buy a top-of-the line AGP card now but any new motherboard I buy in a year or two is going to be PCIe, not AGP. So if I upgrade the card, I'd like to be in the $80-100 neighborhood.

Oh yeah, and there's also option #3:
3. Wait for the HD extender to come out, buy one of those, and use my box purely as a server. I could do this but the whole point of the HTPC project is to reduce the number of boxes in my setup, not increase them.

Am I correct in my assumption about PureVideo and nVidia cards? Is anyone deriving any benefit from running it on a Radeon?

If I switch to an nVidia card, should I be concerned about finding one with a similar clockspeed? I paid a premium to get the faster XT three years ago. There aren't many 500 MHz AGP nVidia cards to choose from nowadays (especially with passive cooling). Do ATI and nVidia cards compare clock-for-clock or is that meaningless?

Oh yeah, and I'm running this at 1080p; looks like GollyJer is running at a lower resolution. I didn't try reducing my resolution but I think it would help, as I got mostly decent playback in a small window. But anything other than 1080p defeats the purpose, since the TV is 1080. Maybe I'll try that tonight as an experiment.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!

[gplasky]

I was able to do HD. I had the same exact motherboard, an Athlon XP 3000+, 1 GB RAM and what I think made the difference was a nVidia 6600GT video card. Every once in a while I might catch a microstutter in a fast pan. But it was good. But I did see the limitations and overhauled my whole infrastructure and that client in particular because it was attached to the HDTV.
Current client is a Biostar TF7050 using the built-in 7150/630a graphics set at 256MB RAM. 2GB memory and an Ahtlon 64 5200 x 2. With the latest nVidia drivers I have no issues with HD 720p or 1080i. Using the HDHR with the cable box and getting all the locals and Discovery HD. This current client is the fastest machine currently in the house. And the upgrade cost me arond $350.


Gerry

[Muchacho]

I would try lowering the res. Do you have any 1080p content on you PC anyways? I bet that the stuttering will improve and you wont notice a difference in quality. But then what do I know as I still have HD stuttering myself.

You may also want to give the powerDVD trial a go as well.

Good luck!

[sclamage]

Thanks for the replies. No, I don't have any 1080p content on my PC yet, but I do have 1080i. 1080p just seems like the most natural way to run things, especially since it's all so close to working as is.

gplasky, thanks for the pointer to the Biostar MB. I hadn't really considered doing onboard video but that really looks like a good one. For about $250 I could have a screamingly fast system. It's a bit more than I wanted to spend, but less than I would have expected. My only concern is expandability, since it's mATX, but I don't think that's a big deal in this case.

Does anyone else have experience with HD and the 7050PV?

[gplasky]

From the nVidia site:
DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 Support=Yes
Integrated HDMI=Yes
HDCP Support=Yes
TV Encoder=Yes*
DVI Support=Yes
Graphics Clock=425 MHz
PCI-Express 1x16
HD Video Playback=Yes
SD Video Playback=Yes

Based on the 7-series it has all these features:
NVIDIA ® PureVideo™ Technology*
The combination of the GeForce 7 series GPU's high-definition video processor and software delivers unprecedented picture clarity, smooth video, accurate color, and precise image scaling for all video content to turn your PC into a high-end home theater.
Feature only available for GeForce 7050 PV/nForce 630a


High-Definition H.264, VC-1, and MPEG-2 Hardware Acceleration*
Smoothly playback all H.264, VC-1, and MPEG-2 video with minimal CPU usage so the PC is free to do other work.

Advanced Motion Adaptive De-Interlacing*
Smoothes video and DVD playback on progressive displays to deliver a crisp, clear picture that rivals high-end home theater systems.

Video Scaling and Filtering
High-quality scaling and filtering technology delivers a clear, clean image at any window size, including full-screen HDTV resolutions.

Video Color Correction*
Color temperature correction makes actors' faces appear natural, rather than washed out and pale, when playing videos on LCD and CRT displays. Display gamma correction ensures videos are not too dark, overly bright, or washed out regardless of the video format or display.

Don't get me wrong-alot of it is marketing speak. But for an integrated video solution it still has some impressive specs.

Bottom line for me was it was worth it to take a chance and check it out. If it didn't meet to my liking I always have a PCIe 1 x 16 slot to throw in another video card. As it stands now it was well worth it.

Gerry

[allen]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

Allen,
When I was messing with this stuff and screwed things up I would use System Restore to go back to a time when things weren't so messed up.

-Jeremy

Jeremy,

Thanks for the suggestion. I never seem to remember about System Restore and it did the trick!
-Allen

[n9cqs]

Greetings.

I tried the VMR9 fix listed in this thread. The sound improved, but not only did the stuttering not improve, it got worse. I'm not sure what I did wrong.

IN my attempts to get NVIDIA drivers to work per the instructions, I ended up shutting down SEVERAL other drivers. In the end, the NVIDIA drivers never did show up on the graph. Additionally, now, I can no longer play DVDs (either ripped OR directly from the drive), and my HD programs stutter worse than ever.

I have formatted the hard drive with the appropriate sectors (that I can't remember at the moment).

I am running a Dell Optiplex 745 Pentium IV Dual Core 3400 with 500 MB SATA drive. 2 GB memory installed.
256MB ATI Radeon X1300PRO display adapter.
Creative SB Audigy
Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC/QAM Combo
DVICO Gold USB HD
Windows XP Pro with all updates

Running the latest version of Sage (all my troubles with stuttering started when I upgraded a week or so ago).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by n9cqs

Greetings.

I tried the VMR9 fix listed in this thread. The sound improved, but not only did the stuttering not improve, it got worse. I'm not sure what I did wrong.

IN my attempts to get NVIDIA drivers to work per the instructions, I ended up shutting down SEVERAL other drivers. In the end, the NVIDIA drivers never did show up on the graph. Additionally, now, I can no longer play DVDs (either ripped OR directly from the drive), and my HD programs stutter worse than ever.

I have formatted the hard drive with the appropriate sectors (that I can't remember at the moment).

I am running a Dell Optiplex 745 Pentium IV Dual Core 3400 with 500 MB SATA drive. 2 GB memory installed.
256MB ATI Radeon X1300PRO display adapter.
Creative SB Audigy
Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC/QAM Combo
DVICO Gold USB HD
Windows XP Pro with all updates

Running the latest version of Sage (all my troubles with stuttering started when I upgraded a week or so ago).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

First off, since you have an ATI video board, I would recommend using another codec than purevideo which is optimized for nvidia products.

Are you running catalyst drivers? Did you try using the ATI avivo codec? Or something like PowerDVD 7?

Thanks
Mike

[n9cqs]

Hi.
Well, just after I posted that last night, I read a post saying something about Windows System restore point, which I did and undid the mess I made.

So back to square one. I will try those other codecs. OR... should I just buy a NVIDIA? Anyone have any comparisons between those and ATI? Or what is the best video card without spending a fortune?

Thanks for the advice.

[Polypro]

Using AC3Filter for audio has cured a problem I've had with judder on ABC-HD...try it as your audio decoder (It installs as default).

P

[Muchacho]

Originally Posted by Polypro

Using AC3Filter for audio has cured a problem I've had with judder on ABC-HD...try it as your audio decoder (It installs as default).

P

BTW- Are you still recording as TS instead of PS? And which video decoder are you using? We seem to be plagued by similar playback problems...

Thanks, Mike

[n9cqs]

Okay.
I purchased an NVIDIA video card instead of the ATI that I was having trouble with. I installed it using the CD that came with it. When the install was complete, the computer was still using the same drivers that it was using with the ATI card. So I started eliminating those drivers according to the plan suggested here (setting them to ZERO).

The system kept trying to use almost EVERY video driver on the system EXCEPT NVIDIA. Finally, when I zeroed out the last one (ULEAD, I think), it now tells me it cannot graph the path of the file because there are no suitable drivers installed.

I would really like to know what I am doing wrong.

The card I purchased is NVIDIA GEForce 8600GT 512 MB DDR. I would THINK that card should be able to really do the trick.

HELP!!!!

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Muchacho

BTW- Are you still recording as TS instead of PS? And which video decoder are you using? We seem to be plagued by similar playback problems...

Thanks, Mike

Nope, default PS....I only did the TS to try and work around my ABC-HD anomoly. I don't know what AC3Filter is doing, that the nVIDIA & Cyberlink audio decoders aren't, but I'm not complaining (and donating to Alex). Video decoders didn't matter, NV or CL was fine...I'm on CL now just because they're newer, I can't see a difference visually between them.

P

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by n9cqs

Okay.
I purchased an NVIDIA video card instead of the ATI that I was having trouble with. I installed it using the CD that came with it. When the install was complete, the computer was still using the same drivers that it was using with the ATI card...

HELP!!!!

Video drivers and DirectShow filters (Codecs) are two different things. You should download the latest video drivers from NVIDIA's website to get the graphics card installed/working. To get Sage (Windows) to use the audio and video decoders (DirectShow filters) you want...try re-installing the program containing those filters...they will usually default to Preferred (80000+). If you want to use Cyberlink, try re-installing PowerDVD, for example. You can also try Radlight or DirectShow Filter Managers to set the preference, or specify them directly in Sage.

P

[Fastrack]

I have a weird issue... I'm running 6.3.6 (same issue with 6.3.5 & 6.2.10)

The 2nd step in the chain says "SageTV MPEG Splitter". If I change the merit of this decoder - it says "The required filters aren't installed"

If though the "Nvidia Transport Demux" has a super high merit.

Any ideas?

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

I have a weird issue... I'm running 6.3.6 (same issue with 6.3.5 & 6.2.10)

The 2nd step in the chain says "SageTV MPEG Splitter". If I change the merit of this decoder - it says "The required filters aren't installed"

If though the "Nvidia Transport Demux" has a super high merit.

Any ideas?

To get control of your decoder merits back you need to unregister the Sage decoder from the computer.

Hit Window Key + R on your keyboard to bring up the run command.
Paste the following text in the box and click OK.
regsvr32 /u "C:\Program Files\SageTV\Common\stvm2vd.ax"
You should get something like "blah blah successfully unregistered" and rebooting will restore the decoder priorities you've set up.

[Fastrack]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

To get control of your decoder merits back you need to unregister the Sage decoder from the computer.

Hit Window Key + R on your keyboard to bring up the run command.
Paste the following text in the box and click OK.
regsvr32 /u "C:\Program Files\SageTV\Common\stvm2vd.ax"
You should get something like "blah blah successfully unregistered" and rebooting will restore the decoder priorities you've set up.

Yes I'm familar with that I actually created a batch file to do it

However before I did this it said "Sage MPEG transport" or such instead of "Nvidia Transport Demux"...

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Fastrack

Yes I'm familar with that I actually created a batch file to do it

However before I did this it said "Sage MPEG transport" or such instead of "Nvidia Transport Demux"...

The Nvidia Transport Demux is only used for .ts files. If your using .mpg files a different demux will be used. In fact, from what I now understand, Sage doesn't use the system default demux but instead uses it's own when playing any file. I can't figure out how to prove this though.