Talk about a rip off see official pricing for Vista upgrades

[SHS]

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...OptionsPR.mspx

Let see Windows Anytime Upgrade
Home Basic --> Home Premium: $79
Home Basic --> Ultimate: $199
Home Premium --> Ultimate: $159
Business --> Ultimate: $139

I made be wrong but that pettey high cost upgrade if ask me when you need to take in count you need Vista OS frist so you have buy one of the falling
Home Basic upgrade retail price, $99.95
Home Premium upgrade retail price, $159.00
Business upgrade retail price, $199.00
It seem like it cost you more in the long run
Home Basic --> Home Premium: +$21
Home Basic --> Ultimate: +$41
Home Premium --> Ultimate: +$59
Business --> Ultimate: +$79

Note that Ultimate upgrade retail price is only, $259.00

[jmiddleton]

Vista is the same price as XP. Basic costs the same as XP Home. Premium is the same price as XP MCE and Business is the same price as XP Pro. Most people will move to Vista when they purchase a new computer - unless you happen to be a technology enthusiast who loves operating systems for their own sake, there really isn't any compelling reason to upgrade and, if your hardware is a couple of years old, there are good reasons to stay with XP. Having said that, Vista is a necessary product. The world has changed over the past 5 years - advancing technology, increasing security concerns, new usage models - and the OS needed to be updated to reflect those changes.

[Ryokurin]

No one here is going to go basic so theres no need to even meantion it. In fact, for their htpc I doubt too many people will need more than Home Premium if they want media center. In fact they likely will buy OEM disks instead which will be cheaper.

Sure the other prices are rather high but look at the deal they are doing if you buy Ultimate. If you buy it by June 30 they will allow you to purchase two Premium licences for $49.99 Thus $250 for the upgrade, and the Premium licences is around $350, or $117 a copy. Thats not bad. Even if you then upgraded those to Ultimate you'll still save $30

[jmiddleton]

Microsoft has changed the rules for OEM licenses. A system builder used to be able to sell you an OEM copy with any non-peripheral upgrade - i.e. motherboard, processor, hard drive, etc... The new rules say the OEM software must be preinstalled on a complete system. I don't know how agressively Microsoft will enforce the new rules but they will undoubtably make it harder to purchase OEM licenses separate from a new computer.

[hemicuda]

Linux is looking more and more appealing.

[doc]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

Linux is looking more and more appealing.

I've never successfully delved into the world of Linux as I have no idea which flavour to go with, but its looking more and more tempting.....

Anyone have any recommendations?

[jmiddleton]

An operating system is simply a collection of tools that make it easier for companies like Sage to produce useful applications and easier for consumers like us to use them. Not things to get excited about in their own right. If Linux supports the applications you want to use, why pay money to Microsoft? If XP does the job for you, why pay extra for Vista? We probably do these things for the same reason we trade in perfectly good cars. There is something newer and shinier and some very talented marketing types working to convince us that we need it. By all means buy Vista if you want to, but don't be seduced into thinking that you need it!

[jmiddleton]

Ubuntu is probably the best distro for the desktop. The big guns like Red Hat and Suse are focused on the server space where they can actually find paying customers to help with the payroll. I'm not sure which disto Sage bundles with their Linux version.

[krutaw]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

An operating system is simply a collection of tools that make it easier for companies like Sage to produce useful applications and easier for consumers like us to use them. Not things to get excited about in their own right. If Linux supports the applications you want to use, why pay money to Microsoft? If XP does the job for you, why pay extra for Vista? We probably do these things for the same reason we trade in perfectly good cars. There is something newer and shinier and some very talented marketing types working to convince us that we need it. By all means buy Vista if you want to, but don't be seduced into thinking that you need it!

While for the most part I agree with you about needing something new and shiny, the major point of installing Vista (Enterprise or Ultimate) is to gain the security that Vista affords you. Specifically, there have been numerous gains on the security front ranging from services being able to run in least privledge mode to built in disk encryption.

What does this really mean though? This means that if you properly configure your services to run in least privledge mode all of the RPC attacks that have plagued Windows XP are a thing of the past. Furthermore, encryption of the disk ensures that you are the only one that can read the contents even if the hardware is stolen.

For the average home user, I wouldn't mess with Vista. For myself, I will be installing Vista Enterprise on my machines and locking down everything that moves.

Just my 2 cents..

[hemicuda]

Wasn't trying to get anything started over Vista. That being said I'll probably, like many others, not jump into the Vista realm until forced. Built-in encryption sounds nice, but only if it's sufficiently strong. As far as the other issues I do my best to use non-M$ solutions to secure what comes in and goes out. M$' "security" standards have never been something to trust. Most M$ software is way over priced anyhow, IMO. It seems that no one cares to optimize their code and I feel like I'm being charged by the byte.

But hey, to each his own. Once again the old saying... "When you play, you pay"

[jmiddleton]

A security chain is only as strong as its weakest link and, right now, that is definitely the "seat to keyboard interface". The tools available free of charge from Microsoft and third parties are quite capable of securing XP if people would stop inviting the bad guys in. Vista won't stop that - you just get one more nag message from UAC.

Don't get too excited about bitlocker, XP Pro has had EFS (encrypting file system) for 5 years but I've never met anyone who actually uses it. Just think about all the high profile stories where laptops loaded with customer data have been stolen - most, if not all, that data could have been encrypted using EFS but corporations don't use it.

Let's face it -the bad guys are looking for low hanging fruit - why go to the effort to crack a system, even if it is only protected by freeware, when millions of others are just sitting there wide open. You don't need to be good, you just need to be better than the competition!

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

Let's face it -the bad guys are looking for low hanging fruit - why go to the effort to crack a system, even if it is only protected by freeware, when millions of others are just sitting there wide open. You don't need to be good, you just need to be better than the competition!

AMEN

[pat_smith1969]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

Microsoft has changed the rules for OEM licenses. A system builder used to be able to sell you an OEM copy with any non-peripheral upgrade - i.e. motherboard, processor, hard drive, etc... The new rules say the OEM software must be preinstalled on a complete system. I don't know how agressively Microsoft will enforce the new rules but they will undoubtably make it harder to purchase OEM licenses separate from a new computer.

It is actually MUCH worse than you think...

I am researching the impact Vista will have at where I work (600 PCs) and because of that I my company is purchasing a retail box of VISTA Ultimate for me ($400). Thus far my recomendation is to stay away at all costs, mostly because of application incompatabilities and the cost of the upgrade. Even when we start getting PCs with Vista pre-installed we will be formatting and installing XP.

Now in my research here is how the licensing will go (as of October 2006). Keep in mind is has been three months now since I have looked into it so MS could have changed their minds.

1. Just like Xp, those who purchase Vista in a retail box will need to call MS everytime they want to upgrade/re-install. Retail box users can do this as often as they want.
2. ONLY the business line of the OS is offered as a "Corporate" type of license. This is where your company buys 200 licenses and you never have to call MS for activation. You cannot get Ultimate as a corporate license.
3. OEM installs will be allowed to be re-installed twice, after that you will need to buy a NEW OS. Sux doesn't it?

[GlobusProject]

Originally Posted by krutaw

While for the most part I agree with you about needing something new and shiny, the major point of installing Vista (Enterprise or Ultimate) is to gain the security that Vista affords you. Specifically, there have been numerous gains on the security front ranging from services being able to run in least privledge mode to built in disk encryption.

What does this really mean though? This means that if you properly configure your services to run in least privledge mode all of the RPC attacks that have plagued Windows XP are a thing of the past. Furthermore, encryption of the disk ensures that you are the only one that can read the contents even if the hardware is stolen.

For the average home user, I wouldn't mess with Vista. For myself, I will be installing Vista Enterprise on my machines and locking down everything that moves.

Just my 2 cents..

FIRST, why is anyone speaking about Security and Windows in the same sentence? When you add the price of Windows or an upgrade the only thing that comes to mind is ripoff.

If you want a good 64 Bit system that is secure, use Linux and you can configure it as a secure server pretty easily. If you are lazy, buy a Maciontosh and you can configure everything you need easily- Firewall, LDAP3 Indentity Management, kerberos, single sign on, NAT and many other niceties. Use the Terminal/console and you can configure anything you want to with command line interface that you would find in a more pricier UNIX distribution. Additionally, you pay only once for the software. No licensing fees.

Plus the Macintoah environment is very well integrated with its user processes- ease of use, intuitive, great user interface/intuitive and last but not least, rock solid technical integration with Apple products (iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, iPod, etc.) iPhone anyone???

I plan to use Sage TV 6.0 on LInux with Mac client. Server streaming through an GBEthernet and/or 802.11n wireless network (linksys).

With Sage TV on Linux and a Mac Client- there truly is NO reason to think about using Windows.

The lack of compatitiblity of Windows with many Unix and Linux systems without specific attention to the windows issues (NTFS not being read by other OSs, for example). Windows was good in its time but if you are going to get involved with Service Oriented Architectures and Grid Technology issues, it is better to stay in the Unix and Linux world and leave Windows out of it. The only exception is if you need to use MS Project Server, which may be a reason to run this on a Windows server. Otherwise, look at what the Federal Government is doing in Grid Technology/SOA and how it has been developed at Argonne National Laboratory and you will truly see that Windows is not the way to go in the future in the area of server software.

[jmiddleton]

Vista has a lot to offer the corporate world in terms of improved manageability and reduced support burden. Most of the benefit will come when Vista is paired with Longhorn server which isn’t due until the 4th quarter – Vista SP1 will ship simultaneously. Early next year I expect corporate bean counters will be crunching the TCO and ROI numbers and liking what they see. Legacy applications aren’t a problem these days. Put them on a terminal services or Metaframe server. Or package them in a virtual appliance that runs on the desktop. The big question is whether corporate Vista will run on PC’s or on virtual machines connected to thin clients. With 8 core processors due to ship by the end of this year a single rack could support thousands of users for general productivity and line of business apps. The scientists and engineers will still need workstations and the road warriors will still need laptops but the writing may be on the wall for the corporate desktop.

In the consumer world there is no reason why ISP’s with broadband infrastructure couldn’t offer the same model to their customers. There are a lot of people out there who want to surf and email and chat but who don’t want to be bothered with the security and other management hassles associated with a general purpose PC.

[AngelofDeth]

Originally Posted by pat_smith1969

It is actually MUCH worse than you think...

3. OEM installs will be allowed to be re-installed twice, after that you will need to buy a NEW OS. Sux doesn't it?

Umm. Do you mean two total installls, or two installs on different hardware? I really can't see them enforcing no re-installs on the same hardware, they had that ability with OEM XP (not sure what the license said), but you could always call MS if your key got disabled due to to many installs.

[jmiddleton]

The EULA hasn't changed much from XP. OEM licenses are bound to the hardware they ship with - this has always been the case. You can reinstall as often as you want but may have to call Microsoft for a manual activation if you upgrade hardware to the point where the OS thinks it's running on a different computer. If you scrap your computer and buy a new one, the OEM license is not portable to the new machine.

Retail licenses have been portable in the past and I expect that to remain true.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by AngelofDeth

Umm. Do you mean two total installls, or two installs on different hardware? I really can't see them enforcing no re-installs on the same hardware, they had that ability with OEM XP (not sure what the license said), but you could always call MS if your key got disabled due to to many installs.

If I remember correctly, it's 2 hardware upgrades. they made some changes of the license around the october time-frame.

And who says you need Ultimate? All 99% of the people on here would need is at most Home Premium.

If you're REALLY concerned with the licenseing costs, just research the Microsoft Action Pack. Join the partner program (don't even need to be a dealer), and buy the darn thing for 299, comes with 10 licenses of Ultimate, 10 of Office 2007, a 10 user SBS server, etc.

I've gone to several of their roadshows, and done all the online promotions, so I'm getting like 2x Ultimate, a couple of Business, and a free office 2007 license. The alternatives are out there to the expensive upgrades, you just have to look for 'em.

You could also go ahead and get a copy of MCE2005 now, it comes with a license upgrade to Home Premium. ANY XP you buy right no gives you the upgrade path (even if they don't come with the cert, they told us at the Rockin Road Show that all XP's sold after like Novemember do).

[jmiddleton]

I am an action pack subscriber. You need to qualify for the registered partner program before you can order it. Technet Plus subscriptions are very similar in content and pricing and anyone can order them. An advantage of Technet Plus (as long as you have a high speed connection) is that you download ISO images of the software. Technet subscribers already have the ability to download Vista and Office 2007. I'm still waiting for my launch kit to arrive in the mail!

Action Pack is intended for consultants and System Builders serving the small business community and the products included reflect that. We'll be getting Vista Business, not Vista Ultimate!

Technet Plus and Action Pack licenses are valid as long as you remain a subscriber.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

Linux is looking more and more appealing.

Every few weeks I try the lastest Linux, using a 2nd partition on my main PC.

I must say, that despite my PC being very new (driver issues), Fedora core 6 linux installed easily with only one hitch: my new sound card hardware. Otherwise, it works correctly with my AMD dual core CPU, nVidia 6100 graphics, 10/100/1000 ethernet, SATA disks, USB2 disks, Windows Workgroup network shares, etc. Didn't try WiFi.

Fedora core 6 is pretty doggone close to windows. I did at one time run CrossOffice which lets you load the real MS Office CDs and run Word, Excel verbatim under Linux. OpenOffice for Linux is OK for non-complex Office docs - but so is ZoHo.com

I hope I don't have to go with Vista. I'm sick of Microsoft. And now they required on-line registration of all Vista installations. And monitor for deltas.

Too big-brother-ish for me.