Support for X360 HD-DVD?

[avonnied]

I've been reading some news around the net about the newly released Xbox360 HD-DVD unit working on PCs..

does SageTV support the playback of HD-DVDs?

reason i ask, is 200$ wouldn't be too bad of a cost as an addon for HD-DVD to my HTPC, but the PVR app obviously needs to support it..

[evilpenguin]

I would definitely be interested in that, but I imagine that supporting all of the technological advances (read: crippling DRM) would be a serious PIA for Sage.

[Mark SS]

Give it a month or so and you'll be able to buy an internal drive at a similar price. I daresay the reason we haven't seen the Toshiba drive available publicly yet is that Microsoft bagged everything Tosh could produce for the 360 addon.

[jkohn]

Even once the drives are more widely available you won't be able to play HD-DVD's via the current DirectShow architecture because it's not secure and Hollywood is taking content management much more seriously this time around after seeing the DVD protections cracked so easily.

There will be no "Pure Video HD-DVD Decoder Pack" for Windows XP. The only BR/HD DVD playback you're going to see on Windows XP or earlier is via self-contained players such as WinDVD or PowerDVD, that don't use directshow filters but rather do all their decoding and playback internally. This pretty much rules out HD-DVD playback from within SageTV for the foreseeable future (and sadly, the same is true for TheaterTek and ZoomPlayer).

It's likely there will be a new decoder archictecture for Vista that fully complies with the DRM requirements of the new formats although some have said this will only be available in 64-bit versions of the OS.

[avonnied]

i guess i was hoping that was what they where using with the money they are charging for the upgrade this time, was to get the licenses needed to include HD-DVD/Blueray playing capabilities..


is it possible this could be included as a purchased sagetv addon? (i guess we can only hope)

[stanger89]

It's not a matter of licenses, it's a matter of security. The entire model Sage is built on (mostly DirectShow) is incapable of the level of security required by AACS.

Not that it's impossible, but it would be quite difficult. Asside from WinDVD and PowerDVD, I'd guess look for TheaterTek to be the first out of the gate with an HD DVD/Blu-ray solution. I say that mostly because despite being Directshow based, TT is a "closed" solution (can't choose decoders), that and they've got a relationship with nVidia (who's pushing PureVideo HD).

My most realistic hope is for TheaterTek to release a solution.

As for support in Sage, I'm not really interested until Managed Copy appears and/or HD DVD/Blu-ray are rippable.

[jkohn]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Not that it's impossible, but it would be quite difficult. Asside from WinDVD and PowerDVD, I'd guess look for TheaterTek to be the first out of the gate with an HD DVD/Blu-ray solution. I say that mostly because despite being Directshow based, TT is a "closed" solution (can't choose decoders), that and they've got a relationship with nVidia (who's pushing PureVideo HD).

My most realistic hope is for TheaterTek to release a solution.

Andrew has already said he won't be able to implement it anytime soon. TT may not expose a UI for specifying your own filters, but it does support the use of graph/xml files for using any number of user-specified filters. That's not really the issue though. The issue is that once the PureVideo decoders are on your system, they can be used by any other application (including SageTV or even GraphEdit). That's the security issue, as I understand it.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jkohn

Andrew has already said he won't be able to implement it anytime soon.

That doesn't surprise me, in fact, that's what I expected. I really don't expect to see much for HD DVD/Blu-ray playback until Vista and PVP-OPM.

TT may not expose a UI for specifying your own filters, but it does support the use of graph/xml files for using any number of user-specified filters. That's not really the issue though.

True, but that's not my point. Apps like Sage, and especially Zoomplayer are built on the premise of being configurable, and being able to pick your decoders is an important part of the app.

TheaterTek, on the other hand is much simplified. HD DVD/Blu-ray support in TT would indeed mean TT dropping Directshow and implimenting a direct video path. My point though, is that for TT, unlike Sage/ZP, it would not be a big departure in features for them to move to the non-Directshow path.

That plus TT has the reputation/history of catering to the demanding videophile, such that I would expect them to be the first of the "boutique" softwares to support HD DVD/BD.

[jkohn]

TheaterTek, on the other hand is much simplified. HD DVD/Blu-ray support in TT would indeed mean TT dropping Directshow and implimenting a direct video path. My point though, is that for TT, unlike Sage/ZP, it would not be a big departure in features for them to move to the non-Directshow path.

But there's no way Andrew can write his own decoders from scratch, so unless someone has a non-Directshow implementation they're willing to license, he's SOL.

[stanger89]

Agreed, and I wouldn't expect him to. Like I said, first, I don't expect much for HD DVD/Blu-ray from anybody before Vista.

Second, like I noted, they have a relationship with nVidia who, conceivably, could provide (for a fee) the "guts" if you will for non-directshow playback.

But I agree overall that we won't see anything soon.

[Kirby]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but regarding the HD-DVD for the XBOX, if I were to plug one into my sage HTPC, install the drivers for it that are floating around the net, what would sage do if it encountered an HD-DVD inside the drive? I've never used the various external player mods out there, but couldnt something be done to force the use of say Cyberlink PowerDVD7 which supports HD-DVD, as an external player?

[Mark SS]

AFAIK the drivers that have appeared just give you access to the filesystem. To actually playback an HD-DVD you need some obscure copy of a Japanese version of WinDVD.

Give it a month or two and there are bound to be more simple methods readily available.

[Kirby]

Oh ok, I do recall reading about that Japanese WinDVD version. Hopefully some "sly" company will offer support for HD-DVD sometime soon too! My only question at this point is, do I get 1 or 2 of these drives (1 for Xbox and 1 for HTPC?).

Does it seem like once there is a decent player out there, that we should be able to make use of it via an external player in Sage?

[Mark SS]

Internal drives will be on the shelves shortly, probably as soon as software is available for playback. Can't see Sage having an integrated HD-DVD player for a long time to come but no reason why launching an external application won't work.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

Internal drives will be on the shelves shortly, probably as soon as software is available for playback.

I've heard dates anywhere from January though February before anyone's going to release software retail.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Oh ok, I do recall reading about that Japanese WinDVD version. Hopefully some "sly" company will offer support for HD-DVD sometime soon too! My only question at this point is, do I get 1 or 2 of these drives (1 for Xbox and 1 for HTPC?).

I'd say just get one for your 360, at this point it seems like rather a lot of work to get it going on the PC, for no real benefit over the 360.

FWIW, I do have one, and it's pretty cool. Not revolutionary like so many make it (HD DVD) out to be, but definitely an improvement over DVD.

[Kirby]

Well looks like I will be trying a rip of one of my HD DVD's rather soon (whenever I get time to actually do it). Curious to see how (if at all) it will play in Sage.

[stanger89]

If you find something that will play EVO files (HD DVD's version of VOBs) let us know.

[Kirby]

Well, supposedly, arent the people using the Jap version of WinDVD or whatever to play the EVO's? I know someone mentioned they used MPC. Either way, I have to think now that the data is off the disc, its a (short) matter of time until someone has a program to remux the AV into another container (unless they are spending their time working on BD).

Or were you referring to something to play them inside Sage?

[stanger89]

Well PowerDVD Ultra will play HD DVDs, but it and WinDVD suck. I hate them. I'm referring to almost anything but those.