VistaView Saber 2020

[SHS]

BDA = Broadcast Driver Architecture which only for ATSC or DVB Digital Tuners not Analog.

[ARMYB77]

SHS,
This is right from VistaViews own sight:

Easy installation of drivers. The Saber 2020™ comes with Microsoft MCE certified BDA drivers, which work flawlessly with Microsoft® Media Center Edition.

This combination of features makes the Vista View ™ Saber 2020™ the TV tuner card of choice for both novices and power users. The onboard video encoder means that you can use older computers with XP and leading software packages to provide all the capabilities of the newer Media Center computers.

I don't know what to make of it if what your saying is true..

Regards
Armyb77

[jmiddleton]

Microsoft is certainly promoting BDA though it is only a logo requirement for digital tuners. Perhaps we should be asking Sage to move forward rather than asking VistaView to move backward.

[ARMYB77]

BUMP!

[ARMYB77]

I use SageTV, it's the best program for my needs. However the software encoding issue makes the Saber2020 almost useless. I think all of our problems lye in the fact that almost all softwares for PVRs use WDM drivers for analog cards, and they reserve the BDA for digital cards.

This puts me in a hard position when placing blame. The saber 2020's drivers 1030.4.5.0 (BDA) seem to be the best drivers for this card. But until the software makers start writing their stuff for BDA drivers it will be hard for the Saber 2020 to ever be very useful.

So here are the two choices, I'd like a poll on what people think should be done.

a. VistaView writes drivers that are WDM so that they are compatible with current versions of pvr-software.

or

b. The PVR-Software makers get on the ball, and start allowing BDA drivers, because they are going to become more and more common in the future as new cards roll out.

Cheers
Armyb77

[jmiddleton]

Microsoft publishes specifications that tuner manufacturers must meet if they want MCE or Vista logo certification for their products. Like it or lump it, Microsoft is the 800 lb. gorilla in the market and few if any tuner manufacturers will look beyond Microsoft's requirements when writing their drivers. Niche players like SageTV will have no choice but to adapt their product to work with drivers that meet the Microsoft logo specification.

I have been using Sage for close to 3 years - started with version 1.4 - and I really like the product. I don't use any of the fancy bells and whistles - just PVR and Live TV - and as long as those features keep working as well as they have in the past, I'll continue to use Sage.

Originally I thought this was a problem VistaView needed to address but I've changed my mind as the thread has progressed. The Saber 2020 has Microsoft certified MCE drivers and Sage cannot reasonably expect more than that. It's unlikely that new cards coming to market will ship with anything else.

[SHS]

There is one comm thing that in GB-PVR, MCE and BeyondTV do all know what that is? maybe that the problem.

[ARMYB77]

SHS,
Are you referring to the fact that SageTV is the only Java based PVR Software?

[SHS]

Yes there all development round Microsoft .NET where SageTV is Java so maybe the BDA drivers need some NET Framework codes that just a guest.
But keep in mind that it should have been build a round Encoder API standerd Windows Driver Model and not Broadcast Driver Architecture Drivers which only for ATSC or DVB Digital Tuners not Ture Analog after all the Saber 2020 is a Analog Hardware Encoder not Digital.
There design is build like the WinTV-PVR 160 aka codename "Roslyn" with one small diff there a Philips SAA71xx base chip.
Broadcast Driver Architecture Drivers
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms802493.aspx
Encoder Devices
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms803058.aspx
But then again SageTV dosen't have problem with Hauppauge WinTV HVR 950 and hybrid 1600 which do have BDA drivers.

[ARMYB77]

SHS,
You have to remember even though the Hybrid card and the 950 use BDA drivers. They also are software encoded for analog tuning. The Saber 2020 works with SageTV however it uses the software encoding which is a drain on the systems resources. BDA drivers are to become the standard for drivers in the future, most new tuners whether analog or digital will begin to use them. The Vixs chip is capable of digital and analog signals for hardware encoding, I wouldn't be surprised if future chip designs do something similar. Why develop a chip that only can encode with analog signals, when analog is being phased out. I make more sense for chip designers to develop chips that can support both. BDA is the future for all types of tuners (Analog, Digital, and Hybrids).

Thanks
Armyb77

[jmiddleton]

I could live with software encoding if that's all there was to it. After all my Athlon X2 4200 doesn't have much else to do when I'm watching TV but the Xcode II-L has all the noise reduction (Integrated adaptive 3D comb filter; Speckle (analog) noise reduction; Image edge rectification) on chip so the software encoded signal is barely watchable!

[ARMYB77]

bump!

[bjterry62]

Hi All,

I've been posting in other forums about my issues with the Saber, but I now realize that the answer is to be found here. Since the question has been put forth seeking opinions as to who should take the lead in solving this problem, I'll put in my two cents.

I don't have any knowledge of driver code, but in an effort to resolve this issue, I think ONE of these two need to do SOMETHING. If it is fairly simple to port Sage to BDA drivers, then I think they should do so to support their customer base. If it's a huge deal to do this, then they should be lobbying Vista View to issue WDM drivers for the Saber for the same reason. My point is there are a group of customers of both Sage and Vista View that are unhappy with the situation. Something has to be done and since we're all mutual customers, then a mutual effort needs to be made.

BT

[Narflex]

This is an interesting discussion....mainly because VistaView doesn't have BDA drivers (they're WDM only....but for some reason they call them BDA).

Although that had nothing to do with why the card didn't work. But it does work now for V6.1 which will be in beta in the very near future.

[bjterry62]

Originally Posted by Narflex

This is an interesting discussion....mainly because VistaView doesn't have BDA drivers (they're WDM only....but for some reason they call them BDA).

Although that had nothing to do with why the card didn't work. But it does work now for V6.1 which will be in beta in the very near future.

Curious, Mine shows it as a BDA tuner in Windows and Sage. So you're saying that the Saber is working fine in Sage 6.1? Is this feeding through RF inputs or S-video? Most of our problems have been associated with the RF inputs. If you're getting acceptible PQ through RF, when can I get v6.1?

I know.......... soon.

BT

[jmiddleton]

But it does work now for V6.1

Excellent news and thanks for the heads up. We've been running production code for 6 weeks now, it'll feel good to get back into beta!

[ARMYB77]

The SABER 2020 is not working for me with the new 6.1.13RC? Could it be that I need to use the drivers that came out with the firmware update?? right now i'm using version 1033.0.4.5 drivers for the card. Please tell use which version drivers are needed.

The error i'm gettting is:
Details:error (-4,0x8007001f) "There was a problem using the capture device please be sure you have the latest drivers installed for your capture device, and that they are installed correctly.


Previous version of SageTV the tuner worked but would use software encoding instead of hardware. Could someone tell me what the problem is?

I did uninstall and reinstall the drivers to make sure they were good.

Thanks
Armyb77

[jmiddleton]

I am running the latest 1033.4.3 drivers with updated firmware that Vistaview withdrew because of problems others were experiencing. I've been running 6.1.3 since yesterday evening. I had a couple of glitches culminating in a BSOD when I woke the system up from S3 this morning but it seems to be OK since cycling the power. I'm running Vista and most of my drivers are either Beta or initial release so I'm not ready to start pointing any fingers - the problem could be anywhere.

On a more positive note - I am experiencing much improved RF picture quality - even the Canadian weather network looks good! I'm also noticing much reduced CPU utilization so Sage is definitely using hardware encoding.

[ARMYB77]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

I am running the latest 1033.4.3 drivers with updated firmware that Vistaview withdrew because of problems others were experiencing. I've been running 6.1.3 since yesterday evening. I had a couple of glitches culminating in a BSOD when I woke the system up from S3 this morning but it seems to be OK since cycling the power. I'm running Vista and most of my drivers are either Beta or initial release so I'm not ready to start pointing any fingers - the problem could be anywhere.

On a more positive note - I am experiencing much improved RF picture quality - even the Canadian weather network looks good! I'm also noticing much reduced CPU utilization so Sage is definitely using hardware encoding.

Ok I flashed my Saber 2020 with the new firmware, and updated the driver to 1033.4.3.0. I uninstalled the old version of sagetv completely including the folder in Program Files, I then installed SageTV V6.1.13, and ran through the setup. After setup was complete I tried watching Live TV, and the computer restarted on me, as soon as I tried. After the restart I tried again, and I had no problems. Everything is working great, the PQ is great (Color Calibration was needed to get it just right). My CPU usage is 1% with 2 shows recording, and 16% with 2 shows recording and watching a previously recorded show. I have no issues with video audio sync anymore, and my wife is finally happy!

All I can say is Shimon and SageTV both deserve a lot of credit for making this work, and I personally thank them for all their hard work. So everyone knows I am using an AMD 3800+ Dual Core processor, a Asus 6150 Nvidia Board, 1 GB of Ram, 500GB SATA Hard drive (partitioned with a 10GB WINXP Pro drive, and a 480GB Partition for recordings). That should give everyone a good idea of my setup.

Thanks
Armyb77

[PGPfan]

Armyb77,

Where can I get these drivers/firmware flash from? I understand that VistaView pulled them right? I'm having the same problem since upgrading to the latest Sage beta. Any chance you might be able to host them temporarily, or maybe email them to me? If you'd rather take this offline, feel free to PM me.

Thanks!

-PGPfan