Important Version 6 Upgrade Information

[MeInMaui]

It might be a nice touch if SageTV were to provide free upgrades to those who have worked so hard to develop plugins/STV's/STVi's (and no, not graphics). They definitely share in the credit for making SageTV what it is today. Such a policy might also encourage more community development, which could only benefit SageTV. At any rate, many thanks to all of the developers out there in the user community. Mahalo nui loa!

Aloha,
Mike

[govgeek]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Once this upgrade path is established, you can bet it will stay. Point upgrades free, unit upgrades paid. I only bought a year ago, if it's $30 per year I have no problem with that.

Again, if you feel v7 isn't worth it, you will be able to ignore it!

People keep using the phrase "one year" and it is simply not true.

I'd be happy to see an upgrade once a year - but the methods being employed here do not promise that (and by my purchase timeline, I could expect 2 "upgrades" a year). Revision numbers can come at whatever time they seem fit. As much as I'd like to just "Not buy it" this is a strong community that is centered around the latest code, so more than likely most if not all new user and Sage developements will no longer involve v5 forcing me to upgrade or not be involved.

As for the comparisons to Adobe and Software Brand X --- I think Sage has been a better company than that (There is a reason Sage has such a strong user community). People don't always just buy a product because of its features, I personally bought this product (instead of he that would not be named) because I saw the great cohesion between the company and it's community. I'm simply puting in my two cents and trying to keep it that way...

[Radar]

Originally Posted by lotusvball

There is no cost for an upgrade from v5 to v6 only pre v5 to v6 which is sort of like 1.3 to v3. Please read the policy correctly.

He's saying that he has v5 now, but bought v4 or earlier, and looking at the feature list for v6 isn't seeing enough to justify paying for an upgrade.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by govgeek

People keep using the phrase "one year" and it is simply not true.

Unfortunately, you quote me in that. One year (plus a month) is definitely true for me. Sep 05 to Oct 06. For many it has been three years. Get a grip. If you choose to upgrade to keep up with the rest, don't whinge. If not, well, there are a number of people out there who still think 2.2.8 is the optimal config.

[govgeek]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Unfortunately, you quote me in that. One year (plus a month) is definitely true for me. Sep 05 to Oct 06. For many it has been three years. Get a grip. If you choose to upgrade to keep up with the rest, don't whinge. If not, well, there are a number of people out there who still think 2.2.8 is the optimal config.

Not my point but ho well...

Did you let anyone play with you in your sandbox?

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by govgeek

Did you let anyone play with you in your sandbox?

We don't have them here...

[blade]

I think some people forget Sage is a business. I know we'd all like to think they are creating a great product out of the goodness of their heart, but the truth is they're trying to earn a living. None of us work for free and we all have bills to pay. Blaming the folks at Sage for asking to be paid for the additional work they've put into the product over the years is foolish IMO.

Personally I think they've been very fair with everyone over the years when it comes to upgrades and should be given the benefit of the doubt that this trend will continue. There have been quite a few additional features added between v4 and v6. Speculating that future upgrades will have fewer additional features between version releases isn't fair IMO. Wait and see what happens, if that is the case then come back and say I told you so.

[Kirby]

When we see Narflex and all the other cats of Sage cruising the ocean in one of these, then we have a right to complain:



In case you wonder, thats M$ founder Bill Gates' little dinghy.

[jominor]

Originally Posted by naln

I agree with you about the principle.

But I am justifying this 'paid' upgrade mostly considering the fact that sage has not charged for any upgrades in the past and for those of us who paid for the v1 and v2, this is a big change and a lot of work for the Sage Developers.

A large part of the good experience, in my opinion, is due to the user community contributing so much in terms of creating plugins, STVs etc and making SageTV so flexible.

I hope that future upgrades are free, unless there is a sea of change introduced. This may also be a good time to start bumping up that feature request thread for future releases.

So let me understand. You want free future upgrades, but a "bumping up" of the feature request thread?

Do you understand how asinine it sounds to request new features for a product that has free upgrades?!?!?

How exactly do you think they will pay for this list? Do you work for free? Do you work for the same pay as your first job?

[naln]

Originally Posted by jominor

So let me understand. You want free future upgrades, but a "bumping up" of the feature request thread?

Do you understand how asinine it sounds to request new features for a product that has free upgrades?!?!?

Easy.......

Nope!! What I meant was that we should not be charged for upgrades that do not pack more features than the current one - well at least that is my opinion!

What is wrong in expecting better value for what you pay?

As I have mentioned earlier (in the post you quoted)- I have no problem with the current upgrade price since Sage has put in a lot of features since I paid for it last, about year and a half ago and have also acknowledged the amount of effort by SageTV developers and others in the community that has improved our experience with Sage.

The feature request list suggestion was intended to draw attention to needs/requests of current users so that it may be incorporated in future releases. It is then up to the individual to upgrade (and pay) or be happy with the version being used at the time.

[Xsabre]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Hello All,

I'm certainly not opposed to an upgrade fee, and it seems to me that the price is right (current discounted and normal price).

However in my case : I purchased SageTV in April 2006, so it is a version 4 key, and as such I will need to purchase an upgrade key. It seems to me that it is way to soon for an upgrade fee. I'll purchase the upgrade key without problems but I think that for each major update, the upgrad should be free if you purchased SageTV within the year... (Again in my case I purchase V4 because V5 was under beta testing with DVB-T preliminary support).

I am in the same boat. I purchased it in Feb 2006. I believe that it is unfair to charge us for this upgrade. It has been less than a year and I am already having to purchase a upgrade fee. I believe that a free upgrade is fair if you have had the product less than a year.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by Xsabre

I am already having to purchase a upgrade fee.

"having to purchase"

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Xsabre

I am in the same boat. I purchased it in Feb 2006. I believe that it is unfair to charge us for this upgrade. It has been less than a year and I am already having to purchase a upgrade fee. I believe that a free upgrade is fair if you have had the product less than a year.

And thats the logic that just doesnt seem to work. Nobody promised you free upgrades did they? I certainly never got a coupon with my v4 purchase that entitled me to free upgrades. And, not to sound crass, but who is forcing you to upgrade? V5 is alive and well. If you dont want V6, dont buy it. Heck, wait until Feb. '07 and then buy it at full price because then its beyond a year.

I just really am having a hard time understanding how anyone (and I dont mean this in a bad way) feels they are entitled to a free upgrade. Do I like free upgrades? Sure I do! But I dont EXPECT them. And I certainly dont feel that I am entitled to any free upgrades either.

Now lets look at it another way. Lets say Sage decided to offer free upgrades to those that purchased on or after Feb 1 2006. Now all those people that bought in January are going to bitch because they were within days of the cutoff. Its a no win situation.

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by Radar

He's saying that he has v5 now, but bought v4 or earlier, and looking at the feature list for v6 isn't seeing enough to justify paying for an upgrade.

Then 1. He doesn't have to.
2. He received v5 updgrade for free.
3. He is actually paying for an upgrade that is 2 above the program version he paid for. so it is like going from v4 to v6 on the payment scale. He could have had to pay for v5 like most companies make us do. I think sage's plan rocks.

[Mahoney]

The only "points of principle" I can see about software updating are:

1. Fixes to existing advertised functionality should be free
2. Paid-for updates to functionality should not be mandatory

As everyone else has said, if you don't think the new functionality is worth $30, don't buy it. Stick with what you have. You still have it, it will still work. Sage have met point of principle 2.

However, on point of principle 1 - no-one has answered Olive's post in this thread, where he links to genuine problems that need fixing in 5.04 and that he was informed would be fixed in the next release, and also told there would be no more V5 releases. It seems to me entirely reasonable for him to request that there should be a maintenance release of V5 incorporating any fixes to existing functionality, given that upgrading to V6 will not be free.

[Xsabre]

Originally Posted by Kirby

And thats the logic that just doesnt seem to work. Nobody promised you free upgrades did they? I certainly never got a coupon with my v4 purchase that entitled me to free upgrades. And, not to sound crass, but who is forcing you to upgrade? V5 is alive and well. If you dont want V6, dont buy it. Heck, wait until Feb. '07 and then buy it at full price because then its beyond a year.

I just really am having a hard time understanding how anyone (and I dont mean this in a bad way) feels they are entitled to a free upgrade. Do I like free upgrades? Sure I do! But I dont EXPECT them. And I certainly dont feel that I am entitled to any free upgrades either.

Now lets look at it another way. Lets say Sage decided to offer free upgrades to those that purchased on or after Feb 1 2006. Now all those people that bought in January are going to bitch because they were within days of the cutoff. Its a no win situation.

Don't get me wrong I believe that Sage should charge for the upgrade. I just believe that upgrades should be included for a one year period. I could be wrong.

Slightly off topic the transition from v4 to v5 can be argued as an update more than a upgrade. I am sure a lot of people could argue this point.

I still enjoy the fact that we can discuss this topic as a community.

[doublebogey]

Originally Posted by Kirby

When we see Narflex and all the other cats of Sage cruising the ocean in one of these, then we have a right to complain:



In case you wonder, thats M$ founder Bill Gates' little dinghy.

I don't think we have a right to complain even then. I think they have to follow whatever business model makes them profitable. At least they participate with the user community, and you see their contributions in the forums all the time. That's something you don't see with many companies... including Big Bill's.

Having to pay to go from v2 to v6 is not an outrageous demand by Sage.. or any other company.

My .02.

Phil

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Mahoney

However, on point of principle 1 - no-one has answered Olive's post in this thread, where he links to genuine problems that need fixing in 5.04 and that he was informed would be fixed in the next release, and also told there would be no more V5 releases. It seems to me entirely reasonable for him to request that there should be a maintenance release of V5 incorporating any fixes to existing functionality, given that upgrading to V6 will not be free.

I agree there, that he was told a fix would be coming for a feature that should work but didnt. That shouldnt be a cost to him IMO. Of course the statement from Sage "no more V5 releases" doesnt in itself preclude them from issuing patch level fixes (i.e. 5.0.5). I would take that statement to mean you wont see version 5.1 or 5.2. I could be wrong.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by doublebogey

I don't think we have a right to complain even then. I think they have to follow whatever business model makes them profitable. At least they participate with the user community, and you see their contributions in the forums all the time. That's something you don't see with many companies... including Big Bill's.

Having to pay to go from v2 to v6 is not an outrageous demand by Sage.. or any other company.

My .02.

Phil

Yeah, I agree. My only hope is that if Jeff and the gang get to a point where they can buy a yacht like Bill's, that they take all of us die hard Sage fans on a trip! Party Cruise!! And I dont knock Bill for charging for his OS either, or other software. If someone doesnt like the pricetag, they can go elsewhere. Look at the new Vista pricing. I will probably buy the Ultimate version for my desktop PC. Expensive? Yep.. But for a PC I use every day of the year, and will no doubt get at least 3 years of use out of that OS, the usage cost per day is almost nothing. Likewise, a $30 (or even $80 for that matter) charge for Sage V6 server ends up being pretty cheap over the long run.

[mike1961]

$30 ...drop in the bucket. I bought it without blinking an eye. No complaints over here. I'm hoping for 3 things:

1. Great mpeg4 support so that I don't have to use GermSage to run an external media player. I want the flexibility to have better integration and easier FF and Rew controls which my media player doesn't give me.

2. Continued integration with the plug ins such as the IMDB, MovieTimes, Web Radio, etc.

3. DVD Support - sorry but for some reason it stopped working when I simutaneously installed version 5 and nvidia decoders. Don't know why but I hope it gets fixed in ver 6 because I've had to use my external media player for that also.

Thanks for the continued support,
Mike