Important Version 6 Upgrade Information

[blade]

Originally Posted by Kev

Blade, first of all, when you buy a product has nothing to do with when it is released.

My point exactly. So saying Sage charges a bi-annual support fee is garbage. Just because you've only owned the product 6 months when a new version is released is irrelevant because there have been years worth of upgrades that were free.

Second of all, per your windows XP/Vista example - when Vista is released, Xp will stil be supported.
My complaint is not the amount of upgrades but the lack of support for Version 5, which I had just bought this year.

Whether or not the product is still supported is irrelevant when it comes to whether or not Sage charges users fees every 6 months.

I bought it with the understanding that it would perform specific functionallity, which it doesn't. I have submitted bug reports, they recognize the problem but then say the fix for it will be in version 6 which requires a fee.
If they supported there products I would have no issue with the V6 upgrade fee.

As I said before you have a valid complaint there and people would respect it more if you didn't try to muddy the facts with misleading statements.

The problem with the frequency of updates is that you have to be on the latest version to have bugs supported/fixed. If the latest version comes out every few months, then you will need to be upgrading alot. From my experience I paid in march and have to pay again in October. Per silkshadow's point, who know what they will do in the future. They will not make any promises so you have to assume it will be the same... which amounts to a biannual support fee.

That is complete garbage. You know Sage has charged for upgrades once in over 2 years yet you continually say from "your experience" they charge for upgrades every 6 months. This is intentionally trying to muddy the facts because you know historically this hasn't been true. As for what they'll do in the future, I've said all along what matters is how they handle things in the future. Also how often past upgrades were released is irrelevant. There was no charge so whether a version lasted a month or two years would make no difference. If Sage charges for v7 then how long they wait between releases will become relevant.

Also I find it very interesting how these posts get conviniently moved deep into the 21 page abyss, never to be read by anybody. Nice work Opus! You need to spend more time supporting your products and customers and less time hiding our dissatisfaction.

LOL, I'm sure that statement will lose you more credibility than just about anything else you could have said.

[blade]

Originally Posted by spacecadet

However, to resurrect a point I made awhile back.... if we work under the assumption that Sage will charge for an upgrade with every major point release, then since my purchase of v2 back in January of 2005, there have been 4 major point releases of Sage (including v6). That amounts to two major point releases per year. So one might also assume that amounts to two paid upgrades per year.

Of course the numbering system and/or frequency can change going forward, but this is one data point to consider.

It is something to consider; however, as I've said before past version numbering is completely irrelevant because there were no charges. Whether Sage changed version numbers or not had no real impact on the end user so it wasn't that big of a decision. If Sage does decide to charge for every version upgrade it wouldn't make sense to think they would not take the upgrade fee into account when making decisions regarding the numbering scheme.

I find it funny that people think the version number actually means anything. For the most part it is an arbritary number assigned to the product. If Sage wants to charge for upgrades once a year and decides they will charge an upgrade fee for all version upgrades there is nothing forcing them to change the version number more than once a year. Basically what I'm trying to say is Sage will decide when they want to charge for upgrades and they're not going to be forced into charging anymore often due to a numbering scheme. When and how much they charge will be decided by the top management not a numbering scheme.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by Kev

I would be happy with sticking with V5 other than the fact that Sage doesn't support it. The replies I have recieved to bug reports have been to buy V6. So basically I consider the upgrade fee to be a bi-annual support fee. I also don't care for the extra functionallity, I just want what I bought to work!

If you go back and look, my post wasn't directed to you, don't drag me into your discussion. I was more referring to Silkshadow's post, sayign he really didn't use any features past the ones he had in 3.0. If you don't use the features in the newer versions, don't upgrade.

[spacecadet]

Originally Posted by blade

It is something to consider; however, as I've said before past version numbering is completely irrelevant because there were no charges. Whether Sage changed version numbers or not had no real impact on the end user so it wasn't that big of a decision. If Sage does decide to charge for every version upgrade it wouldn't make sense to think they would not take the upgrade fee into account when making decisions regarding the numbering scheme.

I find it funny that people think the version number actually means anything. For the most part it is an arbritary number assigned to the product. If Sage wants to charge for upgrades once a year and decides they will charge an upgrade fee for all version upgrades there is nothing forcing them to change the version number more than once a year. Basically what I'm trying to say is Sage will decide when they want to charge for upgrades and they're not going to be forced into charging anymore often due to a numbering scheme. When and how much they charge will be decided by the top management not a numbering scheme.

I don't disagree with you - the numbering scheme is, at the end of the day, simply a marketing tool. However, there are a number of people in this thread that have expressed concern at when and how often Sage might charge for upgrades going forward (and what impact this has on support for older versions). So, in this sense, the past numbering scheme isn't "completely irrelevant". It's no better or worse a gauge of how often Sage will charge for an upgrade than some other arguments I've seen made in this thread.

The point is, without clarification, all we can do is speculate. You can choose to speculate that the version numbering is meaningless. I, on the other hand, can choose to view it as a worst case scenario in terms of paying for an upgrade. That is, if I choose to upgrade to v6, then I need to keep in mind that I could be asked to pay for an upgrade as much as twice per year (based on the way versions have been released in the past).

Does this mean that Sage will *always* release two major versions per year? And that Sage will *always* charge for those major releases? Of course not, but why not prepare for the worst?

[sainswor99]

K; I've tried to avoid feeding the troll, but jeez! Go find a hobby or something.

I'm not dismissing your points, but quit acting like a frikkin' crybaby. As far as I know, it's not the "world against Kev" day (or week or month or however-long-this-flipping-exchange-has-gone-on). You've made your point; some people disagree with you. Get over it.

If you feel you've been gypped, I'll gladly start a collection to pay for your upgrade. Just shut up about it.

[blade]

Originally Posted by spacecadet

I don't disagree with you - the numbering scheme is, at the end of the day, simply a marketing tool. However, there are a number of people in this thread that have expressed concern at when and how often Sage might charge for upgrades going forward (and what impact this has on support for older versions). So, in this sense, the past numbering scheme isn't "completely irrelevant". It's no better or worse a gauge of how often Sage will charge for an upgrade than some other arguments I've seen made in this thread.

The point is, without clarification, all we can do is speculate. You can choose to speculate that the version numbering is meaningless. I, on the other hand, can choose to view it as a worst case scenario in terms of paying for an upgrade. That is, if I choose to upgrade to v6, then I need to keep in mind that I could be asked to pay for an upgrade as much as twice per year (based on the way versions have been released in the past).

Does this mean that Sage will *always* release two major versions per year? And that Sage will *always* charge for those major releases? Of course not, but why not prepare for the worst?

I agree, all of us are just speculating. In the past Sage has been very fair when it comes to upgrades and my expectations are that they will continue to provide very reasonable upgrades in the future. Only time will tell.

If someone wants to look at things negatively and believe the worst about Sage and the possible path of future upgrades that's cool.

[PGPfan]

This whole 'sky is falling - Sage charged for an upgrade' thing is getting a bit ridiculous. Stop pissing and moaning about ONE upgrade fee! Stop trying to play mind reader and predict the future. The FACTS are that in a little over a year and a half Sage has gone from version 2.2 up to version 6 (still in beta) and had ONE upgrade fee. That in NO WAY demonstrates your claimed upgrade fears/theory of "bi-annual" upgrade charges. So, your timing was bad - it's not Sage's fault.

You do have a reasonable complaint regarding the lack of a fix for version 5, but STOP trying to be a politician 'spinning' words to illustrate a point that just isn't there.

Sorry to be harsh, but JEEZ......

-PGPfan

[ben_95sl1]

As for numbering...at the rate they've been going (3,4,5,6 in like the span of a year), we'll be up to sagetv ver 2000 (except things with 2000 in them aren't cool anymore) in the not too distant future. Then we'll be up to $60k in upgrade fees.


I'm ok with $30 though.

[Kev]

Okay, so I am getting a little beat up on from my wording. Let me rephrase my issue.
I bought V4 and an MVP when it was RELEASED THIS YEAR becuase I wanted to be able to play my MP3 collection over my stereo system with a decent interface and of course liked the idea of a PVR as well. If a PVR is all I wanted, I probably would have gone with Tivo. After using the system I have noticed issues with playing music through Sage and the MVP. There are issues with the end of every song being cutoff and a loud pop in the sound (capable of damaging the speakers). I have submitted the bug to Sage and they immediately acknowleged the problem and replied it would be fixed in the next release. Well it turns out sage v6 is a paid upgrade, but due to that they are claiming to still support v5. I then openned a new bug report for the same issue in v5. The response was that the problem was something with the sound decoding programming which they revamped for v6 and I would have to upgrade to v6 to get the fix. I complained to them over the fact and the response was that they consider v5 to be complete working version and this bug to be small, not requiring it to be fixed. So these problems which makes the music portion of Sage over MVP unusable is considered small and not needed to be fixed. The major reason I went with Sage therefor is unusable, so I am pissed. Emailling my complaints back to Sage has proven to be useless, so now I air them out in the appropriate threads in this forum in hopes sage will do one of two things, make the version 6 upgrade free or truly support version 5. I realize the version 6 option is unlikely, but feel that the version 5 support/fix is appropriate. I don't expect them to support version 5 forever, but where as it was released THIS YEAR, I do expect support for the immediate future.
If we can get enough customer backing somewhere (these forums are the only place I can think of) maybe sage will fix version 5. In the mean time, hopefully prospective buyers will read my post to educate themselves and know what to expect before going with Sage. For that reason, it ercks me when the post all get moved and hidden. The replies were originally put in appropriate posts with appropriate topics and should not be moved.

[Patilan]

OMG this guy is hilarious

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by Kev

If we can get enough customer backing somewhere (these forums are the only place I can think of) maybe sage will fix version 5. In the mean time, hopefully prospective buyers will read my post to educate themselves and know what to expect before going with Sage. For that reason, it ercks me when the post all get moved and hidden. The replies were originally put in appropriate posts with appropriate topics and should not be moved.

Actually, shouldn't that REALLY read I, not WE? I think most prospective buyers will see your posts, see the responses, see that Sage has only charged ONE upgrade fee since it was first released, and say hey, that's not too bad. Sure, you bought Sage this year, right before 5.0 came out. Sage decided to charge for the upgrade from 4 to 6 (if you have a Sage v5 license, free upgrade). Poor luck in timing. I very highly doubt all your complaining is going to get you what you want, a fix for 5, or a free upgrade to 6.

Since this is the first time Sage has charged for an upgrade, there's no precedent as to how it's to be handled. Sage decided that they would cut off free upgrades to v6 at the release of the v5 keys, anybody with an older key pays a 30.00 upgrade per server license they hold. For me that was 60.00 in upgrades (I have 2 server licenses). I didn't complain, I didn't moan about it. I paid it. I saw the value of putting more money in Sage's coffers, for development purposes, and to just plain pay their bills.

I've been using sage for over 2 years, I own licenses for all of their products (even Sage Recorder, which they stopped development of what, a year ago or more? It's fairly useless now unless you have older tuners, but I still have the license, and I didn't complain when they discontinued it in favor of the network encoder setup in Sage Server, made sense really). My only real complaints about Sage at this point is the lack of unified client licenses (the whole PC Client license/Placeshifter-MVP license scheme to me is baffling, I don't see why it'd be difficult to combine the 2 so I could use all my licenses however I want), and HD Extender support (it's right around the corner, I'd be surprised if it's not released before next spring really).

My advice? Either suck it up and buy a 6.0 upgrade key, or part with your MVP, take the loss for the software purchased and move on to greener pastures. You're not going to get much sympathy here on the forums, as most (yes most, not all, but most) people here are ok with the system as-is, and don't mind paying the upgrade fee. You've stated your case many times, and it't not going to help to rehash the same old argument anymore.

**EDIT** Forgot to mention that the cost has gone up to 40/server, so now it's even going to cost you more to get a key. Maybe you should have just bougth it when it was 30, then you'd not be out that extra 10 bucks...

[IVB]

You guys kept the order #s from 3 years ago? Heck, I vaguely remember a V1.something, couldn't even tell you what version #.

I didn't notice the difference in upgrade fees until now (5 weeks too late), I don't even need V6, have no intention of changing my system (yet) as it's stable, and i'm still going to buy the upgrade thingey cuz it's $40, and it's SageTV for chrissake! If these guys don't deserve it, no one does.

[Crazedz]

True though i can see kev's point on his issue to some extent, Albeit to a limited extent but i can see it.

I haven't seen this all till now been extreamly busy with the buisness of life excetra so I missed out on a lot till now and hence missed out on the special upgrade pricing so eh what can i do.


My only issue now is what does it offer? Do I need it right now? Can I get along without it? Do i feel they deserve it?

The answers right now are Don't know, Don't know, Don't know, And given past products sure! So I'll most likely pay the $40 for my upgrade but at this time not till after the holidays as money is tight now.

[mets3145]

I heard somewhere that the V6 upgrade discount has expired already. Is that true? I have a V4 key so I just want to know how many bones I'll have to shell out for V6.

[blade]

Originally Posted by mets3145

I heard somewhere that the V6 upgrade discount has expired already. Is that true? I have a V4 key so I just want to know how many bones I'll have to shell out for V6.

That is covered in the first post of this thread. There was a limited time offer for $29.99 the regular upgrade price is $39.99.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by blade

That is covered in the first post of this thread. There was a limited time offer for $29.99 the regular upgrade price is $39.99.

Just checked on the Sage webpage, upgrade is still $29.99. Anyone that waited or missed the 'limited time offer' can still get the upgrade at a lower price...

Larry

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by larryf

Just checked on the Sage webpage, upgrade is still $29.99. Anyone that waited or missed the 'limited time offer' can still get the upgrade at a lower price...

Larry

Until January 15, 2007. Then it goes back up to $39.99

[bbobbo]

Originally Posted by bbobbo

i agree. i'm a loyal user of sagetv since v1.4.10, and i have no problems paying for an upgrade.

i am annoyed however, that i wasn't notified via email about the new upgrade policies and the limited discount period. i know sagetv has my email address--i received a promotional email as recently as 6/16/2006 ("sagetv father's day specials"), and i bought the sagetv placeshifter license on 6/29/2006.

well, since i did post the above on 11/08/2006, i just wanted to come back to this thread and publicly say thank you to sagetv for the following email i got today (i see that other people already discovered the holiday special directly on the site):

We appreciate loyal customers, if you purchased the full SageTV Media
Center Version 5 you get a free upgrade to SageTV Version 6.
Customers who purchased SageTV Version 4 or earlier can take
advantage of our SageTV V6 holiday upgrade special and purchase an
upgrade to SageTV Version 6 for only $29.99 (expires Jan 15, 2007.

i am a continued loyal and happy customer, and i'll be upgrading shortly. thanks again, sagetv!

[bfhoothead]

Originally Posted by Kev

I have submitted the bug to Sage and they immediately acknowleged the problem and replied it would be fixed in the next release. Well it turns out sage v6 is a paid upgrade, but due to that they are claiming to still support v5. I then openned a new bug report for the same issue in v5. The response was that the problem was something with the sound decoding programming which they revamped for v6 and I would have to upgrade to v6 to get the fix. I complained to them over the fact and the response was that they consider v5 to be complete working version and this bug to be small, not requiring it to be fixed.

In my opinion this one of the few valid complaints regarding the version change/charge for upgrade policy. In a similar situation, I'd purchased SageMC v4 exactly 1 day before v5 was released, and of course immediately upgraded to v5. I then bought a v5 Placeshifter license a few days later. Without going into a lot of detail, after a brief exchange with SageTV I was told that a Placeshifter feature that I was looking for was going to be added in 5.1 (5.1 was specifically stated). Now, I don't need the SageMC 6.0 features, but I do want the new Placeshifter features so that I can get the feature that I was told would be in 5.1. Unfortunately, the upgrade policy requires that I buy the SageMC v4 to v6 upgrade in order to get the Placeshifter v5 to v6 upgrade. Kev's situation with expecting to receive for free a bug fix (a "not trivial" bug in my opinion), but is being required to pay for the bug fix also just doesn't add up.

That being said, I think Kev could have posted a more appropriate message, and he clearly hasn't acquired the same appreciation for SageTV that the rest of us have. Also, I should note that I paid for my v6 upgrade and would do so again as I feel that without a doubt I'm getting my money's worth. I just want to make sure I've made this point as it's something that should be taken into account for future upgrades. I'm *not* attempting to predict what SageTV will do in the future, just hoping to have some influence on the decision making.

Thanks,
David

[Malfunction]

Originally Posted by larryf

Just checked on the Sage webpage, upgrade is still $29.99. Anyone that waited or missed the 'limited time offer' can still get the upgrade at a lower price...

Larry

I think I goofed, upgraded on 12/16/06 and it was 39.99. Should have done it sooner or later.