Anyone come to Sage from Tivo?

[Steve2112]

I'm just curious - I was at CompUSA, and saw an open box special I could NOT pass up. It was a Humax DVD-Recorder with built in Tivo Series 2 (40 Hour Model). It was marked original price $399, minus $350, and final price was $49 bucks. The great thing about this unit is that it is eligible for the lifetime service ($299) if I wanted to (they discontinued lifetime service a few months ago except for gift cards and a couple brands/models of units like mine). It is even eligible for a $150 rebate with activation of certain plans, so the lifetime service charge would be about $150 to get this unit up and running without a monthly charge (well, the rebate takes 10-12 weeks to come in.....) Total cost with hardware and lifetime sub would be $200. Just one tuner would suck though..... but the HD can be upgraded to 500GB.

Anyways, I have never used Tivo, and have no idea how good/bad they are regarding settings & configuration and the UI. We all know how customizeable SageTV is, the free EPG, and multiple tuners is what drew us all here.... I did turn it on, and move around the setup menu (without going as far as activating it) - and it makes cute sounds LOL.

But tell me if it is worth experimenting with this unit - it could go in an extra bedroom etc... I hear they don't crash a lot, and I have issues here and there with Hauppauge cards (not Sage's fault).

So...educate me on your experience with Tivo before coming to Sage.

Thanks!

Steve

[MeInMaui]

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to ramble a bit.

I got my TiVo in 2003 and it is still in use. It's in Grandma's room while she's here to help us with the babies. Overall, the TiVo is easy to use but there is no capability for UI customization. It is pretty robust in pvr features. It has good search capabilities and the equivalent of intelligent recordings. It also has some multimedia features now but I've never really used those. Over the years, the menus have become more sluggish as they add more bloat to the software. My biggest gripe is the picture quality. It is noticably grainy. This isn't a big deal if you are going to use it on a smallish sdtv, but if you hook it up to a large screen....yuck. The single tuner isn't as big an issue as I would have thought. The scheduling logic in the TiVo is quite good about rearranging the recording schedule so that everything possible gets recorded. Conflict management is also very good. Note that the TiVo does not keep track of shows you have watched. If a favorite (season pass) show is not presently on the hard drive it will get recorded, even if you have already seen it twice and deleted it the last 3 times. Oh and the TiVoToGo feature is a joke.

Basically, for $200 it would be worth it to have the dvd recorder and a separate system for guests or kids you don't want messing around with your SageTV system. They don't crash often so it would also make a reasonable backup system. Bottom line, I'd recommend a TiVo to my parents, but probably not to anyone who has the technical ability to build and maintain a SageTV based htpc. Hope this helps.

Aloha,
Mike

[jquinlan]

I concur with MeInMaui, Tivo has its benefits; mostly for non-technical users.

I had a Replay before I decided to return it and go to SageTV. If it was not for the EPG cost, even if it is lifetime of the unit (not you ), requirement for additional boxes and EPG cost for multiple tuners and dealing with proprietary recording formats if I wish to rip something off it, I may still be using it.
It comes down to the cost of data that is free and the locked down box. Replay started to make things easier for users to address some of these issues a while back but the TV industry sued them too often, so it all got shelved.

[GKusnick]

I didn't use Tivo before coming to Sage a year and a half ago. However when I recently moved into a new building with DirecTV instead of cable, a Tivo box came free with my DirecTV susbscription, so I've been using that for the last few weeks while I get a new DirecTV-compatible Sage system built out.

From my point of view Tivo does not compare favorably. Obviously there's nowhere near the customization flexibility you get with Sage, but beyond that, I find the menus hard to navigate and the terminology confusing. (The recording schedule is called "To Do List"; "Now Playing" is not what you're watching right now, it's a list of recordings that are available to watch.) The FF/RW UI is much inferior to Sage's skip forward/backward. I've never used Intelligent Recording in Sage, but the Tivo box came with that feature turned on so I let it run. It basically recorded two weeks worth of Law&Order and CSI reruns, and very little else, plus it kept asking me for permission to change the channel so it could record something it thought I might like better than what I was already watching, so I turned that feature off.

Maybe it's all a question of what you're used to, but there's nothing in Tivo that isn't done better in Sage, in my opinion, and a few features that are downright annoying to longtime Sage users. If the box hadn't been free I wouldn't be using it.

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I've never used Intelligent Recording in Sage, but the Tivo box came with that feature turned on so I let it run. It basically recorded two weeks worth of Law&Order and CSI reruns, and very little else, plus it kept asking me for permission to change the channel so it could record something it thought I might like better than what I was already watching, so I turned that feature off.

I actually used the tivo suggestions feature for one very useful purpose. The tivo does not tell you haow much disk space is left free. This makes it impossible to manually clear out less desirable shows when space gets low. I ended up turning on the tivo suggestions and using the number of recorded suggestions as a measure of the free space available. When the number of suggestions dropped to about 10 or so, I'd go and clear out some recordings. As far as the requests to change channels for recording, that never bothered me much because I only watch the news live and I'd switch to a direct feed to the TV (bypassing the tivo) for that. Unfortunately all this is to say that I used the tivo suggestions as a work around for a sorely lacking feature.

Aloha,
Mike

[Steve2112]

Well I have been using it for the past week or so, in combination with my SageTV setup.

Tivo is pretty good. I have not had to fight with buggy drivers from Hauppauge - so far that is my favorite part!

It is pretty easy to use, I didn't even have to read the manual. Obviously it is not as customizeable (is that a word lol?) as Sage, but it does have it's pluses (and minuses).

If you could have 3 tuners and 500GB of space, it would be awesome. Also, it's not as hot as the PC. In my bedroom I have SageTV setup, and that computer heats up the room something fierce in the summer.

I might buy a dual tuner Tivo unit, and add it to my account - it would only be $6.95 a month.....maybe. I'm going to try and rebuild my Sage unit from the O/S up and see if it is more stable.

Anyways, I like them both - but Sage wins. Eventually I'll get rid of the buggy 350 card and will probably have a pretty stable Sage setup.

Just sent in my $150 rebate too...

Tivo as a secondary/guest room unit is pretty good. Would buy again!

Steve

[GKusnick]

My DirecTV installer was here the other day to do some tweaking, saw the SageTV interface on screen, and started fooling around with it. What impressed him the most was the snappy UI response as compared with Tivo (which can sometimes take several seconds to fill a program grid).

I keep my Sage PC in an air-conditioned back room with the rest of my AV gear. If heat's a problem for you, you might want to do something similar, with an MVP or other thin client in the bedroom next to the TV.

[AirJunky]

I had SageTV setup on an undedicated PC plus two clients on other TVs in the house, one of which was an MVP. The system was loaded with features & overall worked pretty well. But the fact that it was undedicated, various system crashes, missed recordings, etc. drove us to drop it.
We now have a Tivo & as an IT guy who regularly configures & installs Windows networks, Citrix clients, VPNs, etc. I guess I got tired of monkeying around wiht the PVR too. I'd like to set it up again on a dedicated server but I'm not ready to make the investment till Sage & Happauge start making some headway on a stable environment.
As far as Tivo is concerned, it's quick & easy & it works. The playback quality leaves something to be desired & will probably drive me to look for a descent HD DVR. Probably something like Motorola, SA or LG sell these days.

[stanger89]

Not picking on anyone here....

I have not had to fight with buggy drivers from Hauppauge

various system crashes, missed recordings, etc. drove us to drop it.

...till Sage & Happauge start making some headway on a stable environment.

I'm not sure what's expected, there are many, many users who have perfectly stable Sage+Hauppauge setups (it's probably the most common by far). There's nothing inherently unstable about either the Hauppauge hardware/drivers (350 excluded), or SageTV.

FWIW, I can't remember the last time Sage crashed, or randomly missed a recording, and I've been running the lastest betas consistently. I do have a dedicated server, but that's only part of it. The service is pretty much invulnerable. If you experience crashes it's probably something else causing it.

As far a hardware goes, I've got a PVR 250, PVR 500, and Aver A180 all in my server, no instability/reliability issues whatsoever. One thing I do have is all nVidia chipsets. VIA chipsets are known for PCI compability/stability issues, especailly as you start adding PCI cards, SiS chipsets, well I just stay away from them. At this point I wouldn't buy any PC with a chipset not from Intel or nVidia, in my mind at least, nobody else has proven they can do it right.

Oh, and FWIW, I had a Tivo once, bought it way, way back in the day, before Sage existed (or at least before it supported the whole nation), I bought it after some trouble with my ancient WinTV PVR-PCI (before the 250). Took it back after a day or two, I didn't like it. I later got myself a 250, and then SageTV, and I've been happy ever since.

[paulbeers]

Yep. I added a UPS to my sage server (or would you say I hooked up my Sage server to a UPS, either way). Now I haven't had a crash for any reason in the last 2 months (all previous crashed due to an over extended power grid in my quickly growing suburb). The only time Sage goes down now is when I turn it off myself. Oh and I even have a Via Chipset in my current server (K8T800).

I know there have been a lot of discussions on the poor performance of the PVR500. I can say mine is regulated to my 3rd and 4th turner for SDTV purposes unfortunately. It doesn't cause crashes, but the image quality just isn't that good. Stuff happens I suppose. I also will admit that I am only capturing Analog cable (and OTA HDTV) at this time which also helps make my rig that much easier to setup (and less components to cause a crash).

There are a lot of reasons that could be causing instability, but obviously once you hit that point of giving up there is no reason to bother. Wanna sell your MediaMVP? I'm horrible....hehehehe.

[AngelofDeth]

Dedicated Sage server, analog encoders (pvr150s), and a media mvp.. as stable as a real set top box. And i've got a VIA chipset too, in the server. Not sure which specifically, its a gigabyte board from around '02.

[TerryMathews]

I came from TiVo to Sage a few years back, the intelligent recording on the TiVo just couldn't keep up with all the shows we followed and it was cost prohibitive to add a second TiVo.

There were some growing pains along the way, and it took quite a while to get Sage to the level was at and more importantly for us to adapt to the differences between SageTV and TiVo, but we're there now and I wouldn't trade my 4 tuner Sage box for anything.

The server is a display, it's running a client in the bedroom, the G/F uses placeshifter at her house, and I'm getting ready to add another client in the family room.

V5's full support of the MCE remote is what seals it for me - no more mapping buttons with Girder. Setting up a Sage client is now a 40-60 minute endeavor - WinXP -> drivers -> SageTV client -> CCCP -> Real Alternative -> QT Alternative -> OggDS filter -> add extra media files to SageTV.properties and I'm golden.

[acrowe]

I too have a stable system. Even before I added a wireless extender and moved it from being an all in one box to a server. I started with a 350 then added 2x150's. Then one of the 150's tanked so I added a USB WinTV. I haven't had any stability problems. I do run an Nvidia chipset in the (now) server though. Heck I've run latest Beta and Bleeding Hauppage drivers here and there without a problem.

I had a friend who had Tivo and have played with them a bunch. The biggest drawback for me? the Sllllllllloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww response from the UI.