Channel changing issue (R5000 network encoder)

[Kirby]

I am using an R5000 network encoder for the entries listed in the attached log file. I start out viewing the guide, no channel preview, selected channel 9471 (Smart travels show) which then started up and played live. After a few minutes, I hit channel down, to take me to Rave on 9470. Channel changed, and started to record on the drive, but playback never happened, it just froze there. This has been happening to me now for several days, or weeks. I used to be able to channel up/down through the channels, and it would work (albeit slow). I cant quite seem to see anything haywire in the log, maybe some kind Sage experts can look and see if they see a glaring problem.

My initial hunch is that Sage is looking for a file size increase too quickly, before the R5000 has actually tuned and started writing data. My sage.properties file includes:

videoframe/network_encoding_to_playback_delay=1500

Changing that to a longer time hasnt seemed to help, infact it made things even worse. Whats funny is that on my firewire cable box setup, this setting is supposed to be longer than the time delay in SageGraphRecorder ini file, but right now, the two are both set to 1500ms, and it works.

Ideas?

[Kirby]

Still hoping for any kind of feedback on this. One thing I have discovered is that once I change channels, if I reload the media player, it starts playing just fine.

So based on that, I am wondering, is there an unknown or hidden command I can use to reload the media player without navigating into the menus? It would be a "kludge" workaround, but apparently, there isnt another solution.

[DualQuad]

Kirby,
Just another datapoint. I am experiencing the same problem with an R5000, in fact its the only real problem I am having with this setup. I posed a similar question about the reload of the player and have had no response. The reload of the player has worked 100% so far for me as well.

[Kirby]

Yeah, we (me and Nextcom) were experiencing this issue back in the early testing as well. Then for some reason, it went away for me for quite some time. Now its back.

But what we theorized was that because the tuning takes so long on the R5000, that Sage is looking for an increasing file size "too quickly" and when its not seeing anything but 0 size for a second or two while the R5000 is tuning, it gets into this "paused" state, where the green progress bar grows, but you cant make it play without a reload of the video player.

I've played with the:

videoframe/network_encoding_to_playback_delay=1500

line moving it up to times approaching 10 seconds even, and it didnt phase it at all. Maybe that line isnt what I think it is (time for sage to wait before starting playback). Or maybe it is that, but doesnt delay the 'getfilesize' checks for that same delay?

When I didnt have this problem, I was on a 4.1.x beta build, but not sure which one now. And I know at one point, I was able to channel up from 6300 (start of my HD LiL channels) through 9486 (last HD channel on Dish), a total of about 30 channels in all. Everything tuned in and played.

I made the mistake of assuming I had somehow corrected whatever, and didnt bother testing it more. Given that most of my viewing is time shifted, this really doesnt come up that often, but on occasion when I want to change channels in live mode, its a real pain. The workaround right now (big kludge) is to stop viewing anything on the R5000, go into the guide, find new program, start recording it, then start playing that recording. Again, this points to the video player of Sage looking for an incrementing file size too quickly.

[camTexas]

I have the same issue. I just started using my R5000 in the last couple of days. I'm glad to see I'm not crazy and missing something on my system alone. Hopefully one of us (or the Sage folks) can come up with something soon. I don't want to have to dig up old 4.x versions to try and find one that works but the WAF may not survive having to stop each recording before any channel changes.

[Kirby]

Well I see we moved from the Sage Software forum to the Hardware forum... Hmmmmm.

[DualQuad]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Well I see we moved from the Sage Software forum to the Hardware forum... Hmmmmm.

The forum switch caused me to think that I was imagining that other folks were having this problem. Was this moved since the thinking is that this is a hardware integration issue with Sage?

Another thing worth mentioning in case anyone who has access to the code takes a peek.
If I change channels (live tv) and get "No signal" displayed, the proper playback occurs. When the screen just goes black after a channel change, the media player needs to be reloaded.

Is this everyone else's experience as well?

[Kirby]

Its not a hardware issue. Thats why I didnt put the thread here in this forum to begin with. Until someone tells me otherwise, or can prove otherwise, I have say this issue is all related to how quickly sage is looking for an incrementing file size. Now, is this is software problem from sage, java, MS and their directshow crap, or something else? I dont know that answer.

So I am still at a loss as to why the mods here decided to move this thread to the hardware forum. It would be nice if whoever did move it, would be so kind as to PM me and explain the reasoning. As the thread creator, I think I am entitled to know at least that much.

[Opus4]

The forum section description says "Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products." It doesn't say that an issue has to be in the hardware, just that it is related to the use of particular hardware w/SageTV. The entire forum here is about SageTV; the forum subsections are meant to help break the topics into related areas.

- Andy

[Kirby]

Alrighty then

[Stealth1971]

Yes the network encoder protocol asks for file sizes at very quick pace (it was at least once or multiple times per second - I havent checked into it lately) One solution I had used for BDA network encoder (HDNE) was to actually put a delay in responding to the request for file size or send false file sizes based on what step in the recording process the app was - i.e. at recording start up.

[Stealth1971]

They should have made their encoder Open Source - I could hack a fix relatively quick.

[Kirby]

Which "they"?

[Stealth1971]

Nextcom - their software is not their money maker at this point.

[Kirby]

Well I cant do much about Nextcom's choice on that. But how do we get it fixed? Do I ask David to hack the encoder in such a way as to trick Sage? Or (and wouldnt this be the appropriate fix) do we somehow get Sage to not poll for file sizes so quickly, or make it adjustable, in such a way that the end user can customize the check based on the encoder being used?

[Stealth1971]

Anders N. (the developer for UNE) had asked Sage about reducing the query timing in the past, but I think it has to be that way.... So any changes will have to come from Nextcom. I believe I just report 200 bytes when I still even had a 0 byte file - to keep it from stopping (Its been a while since I looked at it)

[Kirby]

Ok, so I am confused. If we get David to hack in a ficticious number for file size, say 200 bytes or whateever, Sage is going to want to start playing then. But if its still tuning in the channel, and starting up the R5000 remuxer (on Dish it takes about 4-5 seconds minimum to start writing data) what will Sage do? Wont it freak out when it only sees 200 bytes for 5 seconds or longer even, before the file really starts to grow?

[Stealth1971]

Its been a while since I have looked into this. I dont remember an issue occuring if Sage was only told it had 200 bytes of info for 3-5 seconds. Anders used this method also and he has been doing this for awhile to support DVB in Europe.

Another solution was to use a "Please Wait" MPEG file to play in place of the real data - and when the data is available switch to the real MPEG stream.

[Kirby]

Ok, I'll pass some info on to David and see if he can do something. I actually like the idea of the "please wait" mpeg. Something could be made up with a catchy little tune, and maybe a dancing penguin or something?

[camTexas]

Probably just a fluke but... last night I changed my Sage to run in service mode and whadda ya know my R5000 channel chaning problems went away. Tested again this morning and it's still working. Now I'm afraid to reset my box again for fear it is just a fluke. Just kidding. I'll test some more tonight and through the weekend and see if this holds up.

Now if I could just get my R5000 generated H.264 files to work correctly (inside or outside of Sage) I'd be real happy. (and David will too as I think he's getting tired of hearing from me). - Chad