Multiple Tuner Card and Digital Satelite

[roxy99]

First of all, I am happy to report that SageTV is running wonderfully for me on a digital satelite and USB-UIRT. Everything is clean and easy with no mess ups. I have my Hitachi 46" RPTV hooked up by DVI to my Nvidia Ti4200 and happy as a pig in bleep.

Now I have a new itch. I've noticed several users talking about their setup of Sage using multiple video input sources. I am a little jelous now and would like to get in on that. I have no problem picking up another tuner card and audio input but I was just wondering, how do I split the signal on my Satelite box so that it can simultaneously tune to 2 channels for each capture card? For instance, I may want to watch live TV on one video feed while record a different channel. To my knowledge there is no means to have a simple Satelite tuner tune 2 channels at a time. Am I missing something here? How are people getting around that limitation?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by roxy99

I have no problem picking up another tuner card and audio input but I was just wondering, how do I split the signal on my Satelite box so that it can simultaneously tune to 2 channels for each capture card?

No, you need to get another satellite box, one for each tuner.

[MoopZilla]

You also need to run more cables, depending on your dish type. I have directv, and it's split 4 ways, for up to 4 recievers. I'm only using one with sage, one is unused, and the other two are for my tivo.

[mike1961]

I have DirecTV and had them run all 4 cables from my dish to 4 D10 STB's all in the same location. I then have 2 WinTV 500 cards (dual tuner) in a file server and all 4 are hooked into one file server. Then I can watch anywhere in the house and record up to 4 shows at once.

Mike

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by mike1961

I have DirecTV and had them run all 4 cables from my dish to 4 D10 STB's all in the same location. I then have 2 WinTV 500 cards (dual tuner) in a file server and all 4 are hooked into one file server. Then I can watch anywhere in the house and record up to 4 shows at once.

Mike

4 video cards mean 4 audio input sources. WinTv must have its own audio inputs.
I suppose you gotta love TV to want to record 4 shows at once. I think 2 for me would be the sweet spot.

I am using SageTV media center on a dedicated PC. My plan would be to continue using this PC as a client.

Next, I can put a second PC - I'm thinking a quite Pentium3 800 with 512mb Ram and WinTv 150 connected to a new tuner in another part of the house.

The two PC's would be networked and I guess the normal setup is for 1 PC to be set up as a server with both capture devices. However is it possible to have 2 PCs both individually acting as client and server and both with single input sources? This was my living room TV and basement TV both can have their respective input tuners. This would permit me to leave my 2 satelite tuners where they are and simply have Sage TV PC's between them? I'll share the Harddrives on both so either PC can read the recordings on the other PC.

Can that setup work or is it necessary to seperate 1 Backend server and one client?

[blade]

I think you need a "server" then the other PC setup as a "network encoder". If they are setup as seperate servers I don't think they will be able to share recordings like you're wanting to.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by blade

I think you need a "server" then the other PC setup as a "network encoder". If they are setup as seperate servers I don't think they will be able to share recordings like you're wanting to.

Interesting. Okay then I can turn my current PC into a client and instead buy a pentium3 equiped with Wintv dual PVR 250 acting as server. I'll need another USB-UIRT to control the 2 tuners attached to the server. Sounds like a plan.

[blade]

Originally Posted by roxy99

Interesting. Okay then I can turn my current PC into a client and instead buy a pentium3 equiped with Wintv dual PVR 250 acting as server. I'll need another USB-UIRT to control the 2 tuners attached to the server. Sounds like a plan.

I'm not sure if you understand what I'm talking about. In case you don't.......... You'd put a tuner in each PC. The tuner in the "client" would be configured as a network encoder. This would allow the "server" to schedule recordings on the client's capture card and change the channel on the stb connected to the client.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by blade

I'm not sure if you understand what I'm talking about. In case you don't.......... You'd put a tuner in each PC. The tuner in the "client" would be configured as a network encoder. This would allow the "server" to schedule recordings on the client's capture card and change the channel on the stb connected to the client.

I am glad you clarrified that. In that case the server does what exactly? I had thought that the role of the server is to record and act as video capture terminal and media file server. I was also under the impression that the client PC only plays back media files which are passed via the server and that therefor the client does not capture any video.

If I understand you correctly the role of the server is more akin to a 'musical conducor' which dictates to the client(s) what channel to tune to and record. This means that video files are stored on client PC's. The Sage server is not really a file server. Then can I still use my server PC as a playback device? IE - the server is also sending output to another TV? Basically I have 2 PCs, 2 satelite tuners and 2 TV's. My plan is probably pretty typical. I still need an extra USB-UIRT for the other PC to control the satelite box.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by roxy99

I am glad you clarrified that. In that case the server does what exactly? I had thought that the role of the server is to record and act as video capture terminal and media file server. I was also under the impression that the client PC only plays back media files which are passed via the server and that therefor the client does not capture any video.

If I understand you correctly the role of the server is more akin to a 'musical conducor' which dictates to the client(s) what channel to tune to and record. This means that video files are stored on client PC's. The Sage server is not really a file server. Then can I still use my server PC as a playback device? IE - the server is also sending output to another TV? Basically I have 2 PCs, 2 satelite tuners and 2 TV's. My plan is probably pretty typical. I still need an extra USB-UIRT for the other PC to control the satelite box.

Yes roxy99, you understand correctly. Make your current box a client, and take the tuner out of it. Put the tuner in the new box, along with a second tuner. Then make that new box a server, with another USBUIRT and your all set. Both boxes can run the SageTV Interface, so you can see SageTV on both of your TV's.

[SHS]

What would be really be nice and I hope Jon hearing us here is a new 4 four channel IR emitter port mono plug or more USBUIRT device.

[blade]

mikejaner is absolutely correct. You can move your stbs to your server's location and connect them both to the server. Then the server can stream the recordings and "liveTV" to your client. That's how most people have it setup; however, it's not going to allow you to keep your stbs where they are now as you asked about previously.

Originally Posted by roxy99

The two PC's would be networked and I guess the normal setup is for 1 PC to be set up as a server with both capture devices. However is it possible to have 2 PCs both individually acting as client and server and both with single input sources? This was my living room TV and basement TV both can have their respective input tuners. This would permit me to leave my 2 satelite tuners where they are and simply have Sage TV PC's between them?

I think the only way to do that is to set it up as I mentioned earlier. Personally I'd put both tuners in the server and move the stbs, but that's not what you were asking earlier.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by blade

mikejaner is absolutely correct. You can move your stbs to your server's location and connect them both to the server. Then the server can stream the recordings and "liveTV" to your client. That's how most people have it setup; however, it's not going to allow you to keep your stbs where they are now as you asked about previously.



I think the only way to do that is to set it up as I mentioned earlier. Personally I'd put both tuners in the server and move the stbs, but that's not what you were asking earlier.

What threw me was when you said.
"This would allow the "server" to schedule recordings on the client's capture card and change the channel on the stb connected to the client.

You also mentioned to put a tuner inside each PC in post #8. Actually I prefer to have both tuners in the server. Except I would need 3 PCs (1 server and 2 clients for each TV)

Sorry I wasn't clear.



I appreciate your help. Thank you : )

[ke6guj]

Depending on the performance level of your new server's CPU and video card, you could have it be the server plus run one of your TV's. That way you could just have the server do all the recording and support 1 TV, and then run the second TV off 1 additional PC.


edit: If you have any way to set your server with a big CPU, something in the 3GHz range, it would benefit you in the long run. If you have the horsepower, you can do stuff like run the placeshifter client, or watching non-mpeg videos on an MVP. Those features require serious CPU time for the transcoding support.

[mike1961]

Blade - to me it's an advantage. Why would I want extra boxes and junk around the TV set? I'm tired of having (1) Tivo box (2) STB (3) DVD (4) playstation. Now, I have 4 STB's staked in the closet along with the Server. I went to Longs drugs and got little stick pads to provide a little extra gap between the STB's when stacked so they wouldn't get too hot.

Mike

Originally Posted by blade

mikejaner is absolutely correct. You can move your stbs to your server's location and connect them both to the server. Then the server can stream the recordings and "liveTV" to your client. That's how most people have it setup; however, it's not going to allow you to keep your stbs where they are now as you asked about previously.



I think the only way to do that is to set it up as I mentioned earlier. Personally I'd put both tuners in the server and move the stbs, but that's not what you were asking earlier.

[mike1961]

First - yes the WinTV 500 do come with their own input sources. But, I said I have 2 WinTV 500 cards (each card has 2 tuners and therefore 2 audio and video inputs which support either dual RCA, dual svideo, or dual coax or any combination and of course dual hardware mpeg2 encoders).

I don't recommend running a server and client in almost any situation if you can avoid it. For one thing, if you have 2 computers both acting as client and server (each one with it's own tuner) you immediately lose the ability to record one program and watch another at the same time without running to the other unit to record. Also, if you or friends are watching the same channel on both units then you are using both tuners instead of one. Finally, servers are more reliable when they are not running applications. I've had mine on now for over a month with no crashes and I also have it set up for other services as well like accepting junk faxes that I can send to the recycle bin everyday (I got tired of seeing hard copy junk faxes on my fax machine so I got rid of it and have a little more space).

To tell you the truth - I've been so busy trying to get Sage setup "perfectly" that I haven't had much time at all to watch TVl. My my wife and kids have pretty strong ideas about what to expect from their Tivo experiences. I keep coming up with new ideas of how I want my Sage system setup. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to get the remote to work with some Arcade games if possible. I've already configured Sage to work with many of the nielm customizations including the internet movie database which is really cool and also interface with GermSage for mpeg4 files along with the dynamic menu customizations which I really like (thanks nielm...very nice work).

Mike

Originally Posted by roxy99

4 video cards mean 4 audio input sources. WinTv must have its own audio inputs.
I suppose you gotta love TV to want to record 4 shows at once. I think 2 for me would be the sweet spot.

The two PC's would be networked and I guess the normal setup is for 1 PC to be set up as a server with both capture devices. However is it possible to have 2 PCs both individually acting as client and server and both with single input sources? This was my living room TV and basement TV both can have their respective input tuners. This would permit me to leave my 2 satelite tuners where they are and simply have Sage TV PC's between them? I'll share the Harddrives on both so either PC can read the recordings on the other PC.

Can that setup work or is it necessary to seperate 1 Backend server and one client?

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Blade - to me it's an advantage. Why would I want extra boxes and junk around the TV set? I'm tired of having (1) Tivo box (2) STB (3) DVD (4) playstation. Now, I have 4 STB's staked in the closet along with the Server. I went to Longs drugs and got little stick pads to provide a little extra gap between the STB's when stacked so they wouldn't get too hot.

Mike

I totally agree, and if you'll read the post more carefully you'll see that I said that's how I'd rather have it; however, that's not what roxy99 asked in the earlier post. The question was could the 2 tuners stay in seperate PCs so that the STBs wouldn't need to be moved.

[blade]

Originally Posted by mike1961

For one thing, if you have 2 computers both acting as client and server (each one with it's own tuner) you immediately lose the ability to record one program and watch another at the same time without running to the other unit to record. Also, if you or friends are watching the same channel on both units then you are using both tuners instead of one.
Mike

If you have 2 computers each with it's own tuner and both set up as servers then they will work independently of each other as you said.

Setting up a client and a server and having a tuner in both of the PCs will not cause this behavior, if you setup the client's tuner as a network encoder. It allows the Sage server to use the tuner in the client just like it would if the tuner were located in the server itself. If you watch the same show on both computers only one tuner will be used.

I would rather not use a network encoder, but I can see times when it would be useful. For example, if you have dual tuner stbs with one IR and one RF receiver. Sage can only use the IR controlled tuner. The stb could remain next to the TV and the RF tuner could be used for watching actual live TV and Sage could use the IR one. I realize even if the RF controlled were located farther away at the server it might still be possible to use it this way if the remote was still in range which isn't always the case if you're on the 2nd floor and the server is in the basement. Also if you're out of PCI slots in your server you can add tuners to another PC and set it up as a network encoder.

[roxy99]

A server should be just a server and I would scrap my 7 year old WDM video capture card and go for a dual PVR500 like mike said. My current system is a Nforce2 AthlonXP 3200 512mb ram.
I'll make that into the first client and continue keeping it attached to my RPTV in the basement. Just need to throw away the 7 yr old capture card and reconfigure the PC as a Sage Client.

I also have a file server (Shuttle motherboard - CPU K6 366) in the laundry room running Mandrake linux sharing with Windows using Samba. I'd like to keep that running linux. That system has been very stable and has never had to be rebooted. I've heard that with hardware capture cards you don't need a fast CPU on the server. The problem is linux. I will have to convert it to a Microsoft machine and install Sage Server there.

For my second TV I will need another PC. Does it need to be a modern CPU for Mpeg-2 playback? I have an old P3 600 laptop that I was thinking of using for the second Sage tV client (small and quite). For that I'll need a VGA to S-Video dongle and another USB-UIRT. ACOme to think of it, I'll even need a third USb-UIRT for the server won't I?