Looking for help with VOB, ISO, IMG, & MDS files.

[BugMan]

I've been able to view VOB files with a MediaMVP, but it only plays the specific VOB file and then ends and does not treat the collection of VOB & IFO files as a single entity and return to the main menu. Also, I have many .ISO & .IMG files that have an associated .MDS file made with Alcohol 120%. Has anybody had any luck playing them?

[gplasky]

As you have discovered with the most recent beta the only capabilty the MVP has is playing the .vob individually. It doesn't and won't support the playing of the .ifo like a regular rip. Based on that a .ISO or .IMG file won't play either because it depends on a normal DVD structure (.IFO) within the file format. And it would have to be able to either read the format or support something like Daemon tools.

Gerry

[Para]

Originally Posted by BugMan

I've been able to view VOB files with a MediaMVP, but it only plays the specific VOB file and then ends and does not treat the collection of VOB & IFO files as a single entity and return to the main menu.

You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by Para

You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.

How retarded is that!?

There are way too many DVD playing software (apps) out there for it to be this hard to play VOB/IFO like a normal DVD, where you can backup, go forward, etc. Yet, MPEG & DIVX movies play normally. I think the software writers dropped the ball. If a $20 dollar DVD player can play the VOB/IFO file assortment correctly, then I would think SageTV could as well.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Para

You can create a playlist for the specific VOBs you want to watch but their are limitations. For example, one limitation is that you can only backup as far as the start of the currently playing VOB.

Try using Channel Up/Down to go forward/backward in a playlist.

Originally Posted by BugMan

How retarded is that!?

There are way too many DVD playing software (apps) out there for it to be this hard to play VOB/IFO like a normal DVD, where you can backup, go forward, etc. Yet, MPEG & DIVX movies play normally. I think the software writers dropped the ball. If a $20 dollar DVD player can play the VOB/IFO file assortment correctly, then I would think SageTV could as well.

An MVP natively plays the MPEG2 file format. SageTV has to transcode the DVD files for playback on the MVP; it is not using 'normal' DVD playback methods.

Full DVD playback with menus/etc, including from DVD files on a hard drive, is available in SageTV and SageTVClient. Where it isn't available is when those files have to be transcoded for the MVP/Media Extender or Placeshifter client.

- Andy

[PGPfan]

A bigger question is: does the transcoding that GBPVR uses (for example) have the same playback limitations? (anyone tried it?) We REALLY need to solve this final hurdle on the MVP. In my opininion, it doesn't have to play exactly like a DVD, just needs to pass WAF.

-PGPfan

[gplasky]

I'm with you. I don't need nor want the menus. I rip movie only. Just give it a way to start play the .vob files from the .ifo file.

Gerry

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by Opus4

An MVP natively plays the MPEG2 file format. SageTV has to transcode the DVD files for playback on the MVP; it is not using 'normal' DVD playback methods.

Full DVD playback with menus/etc, including from DVD files on a hard drive, is available in SageTV and SageTVClient. Where it isn't available is when those files have to be transcoded for the MVP/Media Extender or Placeshifter client.

- Andy

When you say natively, I'm guessing hardware. Well then, I think the media extenders should include hardware (circuitry) to be able to play VOB files natively, this hardware is very cheap these days. Anywho, VOB files can be played via the MediaMVP & SageTV, I guess, after being transcoded. If thats the case, then it is just a programming change to tell SageTV how to treat/play VOB & IFO files to be more aligned with normal DVD operation. Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.

This also starts to address the some other issues I have with the media extenders. With Gigabit home networks these days (mine included), Bandwidth is cheap. I've heard that it takes 22MBit/sec to run a DVD quality stream through the network. Obviously, 10MBit networks will have a problem, but I've already experimented with just a 100MBit network and had great results with running 3 independent streams of different movies. When I bought the MediaMVP, I thought it already had this capability. Performing a transcode will just diminish the DVD quality; not something I want. I've also experimented with wireless and running DVD quality streams. This did not turn out favorably. An 11g network was able to handle 1 stream fairly well, but had problems with 2 streams, even though the signal strength/quality was 'Very Good'. Obviously, 22MBits/sec times 2 equals 44MBits/sec, which is getting close to the 54MBits/sec bandwidth. I think a wired network is the way to go and is the reason why I wired my house.

Enough rant for now. I should would love to be on the MediaMVP strategic planning committee. Maybe I'll make my own.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by BugMan

Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.

Sage can't play images (eg ISO) at all, you have to mount them with a virtual drive software and then they apprear as a normal DVD.

I've heard that it takes 22MBit/sec to run a DVD quality stream through the network.

More like 8-10Mbps

Obviously, 10MBit networks will have a problem, but I've already experimented with just a 100MBit network and had great results with running 3 independent streams of different movies. When I bought the MediaMVP, I thought it already had this capability. Performing a transcode will just diminish the DVD quality; not something I want.

AFAIK, only the audio is transcoded, because the video is already standard MPEG2.

In case you don't realize, the MediaMVP can only play back MPEG-2 video with MPEG or PCM audio, (I think it can do mp3s as well). Transcoding is not done for bandwidth constraints, it's done for compatibility purposes.

I've also experimented with wireless and running DVD quality streams. This did not turn out favorably. An 11g network was able to handle 1 stream fairly well, but had problems with 2 streams, even though the signal strength/quality was 'Very Good'.

You've just discovered that you don't get anywhere near the advertised bandwidth with wireless. With 802.11b you're lucky to get 4Mbps, and with G you're lucky to get 20. But there's also the issue of link quality/reliability. Wireless links, even those that are reported as "very good" are not very reliable. They often go up and down, drop out for moments, etc. Your web brower couldn't care less, but video is very sensitive to momentary losses/degridations in communication that are common with wireless.

Obviously, 22MBits/sec times 2 equals 44MBits/sec, which is getting close to the 54MBits/sec bandwidth. I think a wired network is the way to go and is the reason why I wired my house.

I think everyone here would agree. I know I put a Leviton distribution panel in my basement and and will have gigabit ethernet throughout the house.

Enough rant for now. I should would love to be on the MediaMVP strategic planning committee. Maybe I'll make my own.

The MVP is very limited hardware, and Sage is already doing more with it than about anyone else (heck they're matching or exceeding Windows Media Center Extenders at about 1/3 the cost ).

But yes, many here are looking forward to the HD capable SageTV extender that has been hinted at. That should provide much better support, including, hopefully, full DVD playback.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by BugMan

Anywho, VOB files can be played via the MediaMVP & SageTV, I guess, after being transcoded. If thats the case, then it is just a programming change to tell SageTV how to treat/play VOB & IFO files to be more aligned with normal DVD operation. Furthermore, if the VOB files can be transcoded, then so can .ISO and .IMG files.

Search the forum. Narflex already stated to be able to play them like a ripped DVD on the MVP it would require a writing a DVD navigator for the MVP-no small feat. (Unless you willing to write-it's just a programming change-right? )
And you don't transcode an .ISO or an .IMG file. An ISO image (.iso) is an informal term for a disk image of an ISO 9660 file system. As is typical for disk images, in addition to the data files that are contained in the ISO image, it also contains all the filesystem metadata (boot code, structures, and attributes). All of this information is contained in a single file. These properties make it an attractive alternative to physical media for the distribution of software which requires this additional information as it is simple to retrieve over the Internet.

(Wikipedia is great. )

Definitely looking for a HD Sage extender or a networked DVD player that could run a "Sage client".

Gerry

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sage can't play images (eg ISO) at all, you have to mount them with a virtual drive software and then they appear as a normal DVD.

I'm not really sure I understand this. Fact is, the MediaMVP will play a VOB file. It just doesn't put all the VOB files together and treat it as one movie/DVD. That stinks. This sounds like a programming issue with SageTV.

Also, SageTV could play an .ISO or .IMG if it were programmed to mount the file for you and then play it like it would any other VOB file. Alcohol 120% performs this same function, there is no reason SageTV can't be programmed to do the same thing. I would be surprised if there wasn't an API, OCX, etc. written by Alcohol Soft (Alcohol 120%) or someone else for SageTV to use.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by BugMan

I'm not really sure I understand this. Fact is, the MediaMVP will play a VOB file.

But it can't handle AC3 audio, which is present in probably 99% of VOBs.

It just doesn't put all the VOB files together and treat it as one movie/DVD. That stinks. This sounds like a programming issue with SageTV.

First off, you don't need to import VOBs, Sage can play a DVD rip just fine. However the MVP works differently because Sage streams the video to it. It has limitaions like being unable to play AC3 audio. DVDs are weird because they don't stream well since they require accessing several files simultaneously. SageTV has to work around the limitations inherent in the MVP, and like I said, Sage does more with the MVP than almost anyone out there. Is it perfect, of course not.

Also, SageTV could play an .ISO or .IMG if it were programmed to mount the file for you and then play it like it would any other VOB file.

What I said was Sage can't play ISOs, that's true, if you mount them they work like a physical DVD in a drive and Sage can play that fine. Sage can't mount ISOs. In fact, almost nothing can play ISOs directly. Not Theatertek, PowerDVD, WinDVD, Meedio, MCE....

Alcohol 120% performs this same function, there is no reason SageTV can't be programmed to do the same thing.

Well there's a lot of stuff SageTV could be programmed to do, but you have to manage scope with any project. Excessive feature creep can be the death of any software project.

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well there's a lot of stuff SageTV could be programmed to do, but you have to manage scope with any project. Excessive feature creep can be the death of any software project.

Well, is there any way I can program my own features into SageTV?

[stanger89]

Sure is:
http://www.sage.tv/configuration.html
http://www.sage.tv/studio.html

[BugMan]

Where or how do I get the Studio?

[ke6guj]

Studio is included in SageTV and SageTVclient and available for usage with a registered copy of Sage. See Page 6 of the Studio PDF, http://download.sage.tv/SageTVStudio_v4_UserGuide.pdf

Crtl-shift-f12 opens Studio.

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But it can't handle AC3 audio, which is present in probably 99% of VOBs.

Why can't Sage handle AC3? Does the MediaMVP handle AC3?

[stanger89]

Sage can do AC3 (technically the decoders used by Sage do AC3) but the MVP decoder can't, hence the transcoding for VOBs on the MVP.

[BugMan]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Sage can do AC3 (technically the decoders used by Sage do AC3) but the MVP decoder can't, hence the transcoding for VOBs on the MVP.

What does Sage transcode AC3 into for the MediaMVP to handle? Also, don't you think the MediaMVP should be able to handle AC3, even the cheapest DVD palyers do.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by BugMan

What does Sage transcode AC3 into for the MediaMVP to handle?

I assume MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio (MP2), the standard for MPEG files.