Wired 'Future of PVRs' article quotes Mike@Sage on DRM...

[SHS]

Hmm last time I check the CEO was Dan Kardatzke and Mike Machado I think he the Senior Vice President his real title maybe COO and Jeff Kardatzke the CTO if I have it all rigth.

[Opus4]

This thread could go in either place, but I moved this in the General forum, since it seems general enough for that & maybe people won't post more new threads about it.

SHS: the title was correct, as shown in the post mlbdude linked to.

- Andy

[Jesse]

The interface blows chunks.

Have'nt heard "blows chunks" in a long time. Ahhhh the 80's.......

Jesse

[DFranch]

Originally Posted by Jesse

Have'nt heard "blows chunks" in a long time. Ahhhh the 80's.......

Jesse

One of my 80's songs must have been playing on my MP3 player while I was typing. I must have had a flashback. But it is a good description of the TWC DVR's interface.

[domc]

Found this on wired magazine. If this happens, I'll be dropping sagetv in an instant. Once the U.S. goes digital, it's going to be hard to move our Mpeg file around to other products. That's why the music and movie industry is pushing so hard for digital tv.

If sagetv does this (I understand it may be out of there control), I'll be switching to the more underground Free products out there. Maybe someone could make hacks for Sagetv but I'm sure the underground community would be doing it first.

Quote:
Even Mike Machado, the CEO of SageTV, admits his company's software, which currently records television into the unlocked MPEG2 format, will have to make concessions to get access to encrypted cable HDTV.
"We are trying to give consumer all the freedom they can get, but when it comes to accessing content that the studios and content industry are very cautious about, we'll have to incorporate some rights management," Machado says. "Hopefully those industries will work on easy-to-use, affordable services that give you good value. It's hard to tell; it's their choice, it's their content."

Article:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology...tw=wn_index_20

[dbfresh23]

You're the second one to start a thread on this link in as many days... Did you think that SageTV was somehow more important then MS that DRM wouldn't apply to them? FYI - It's the US govt that is pushing hardest for DTV.

[domc]

Ooops...if this thread was started already, can someone post the link in the next reply.

[teknubic]

Actually, this is the third. I'm guilty as well
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16678

[PGPfan]

All this 'forced' DRM crap makes me sick! I'll stay with the options I have right now, thank you. It won't work for me presently (due to limited bandwith with satellite internet) but what I'd really like to see a Sage customizer create is to implement Democracy into Sage as a plug-in. We stand little chance of resisting the DRM with our wallets unless there is a viable alternative that doesn't have the restrictions.

I urge everyone to at least check out the Democracy link and let your mind imagine what it 'could' do for Sage and your enjoyment of it.

-PGPfan

[Motofreak75]

I would like to know is....

Will sagetv make a PVR software that doesn't compile with US laws for people like me that DOESN'T live, work in the USA. Because I don't live by USA rules or DRM BS. And I'm sure they're is a few other members of this forum that doesnt live in the states aswell.


Hell how long ago was it, that the BETA/VHS wars started. Thats means having a BETAMAX or VHS goes againist DRM. Dont they make enough money and now they want to control what you own (really rent) inside your own home.

/rant

[stanger89]

As long as they leave the CP/DRM as an option to enable content that requires it, I think they/we will be fine.

[Mahoney]

Originally Posted by Gog

I'm pretty much with you there. HDTV is nice but I can live with SDTV and I only use the big screen for movies.

The problem is that SDTV is not here to stay. Once plain old TV channels get kicked off the air I see cable TV going all HD within 5 years and during that time less and less interresting programming will be available is SDTV.

A lot of things can happen in 8 years. My PVR will go through a few incarnations but it looks like we might be locked out of TV within a decade.

Gog

In a decade my *guess* is that the whole notion of recording things locally will be an anachronism, at least for tech savvy people like those who have SageTV. We'll have a reasonably priced subscription to an on-demand comprehensive IPTV service, and watch/listen to what we want when we want by streaming it without needing to store it locally.

That's the way I see things going, anyway.

[ben_95sl1]

Originally Posted by Mahoney

In a decade my *guess* is that the whole notion of recording things locally will be an anachronism, at least for tech savvy people like those who have SageTV. We'll have a reasonably priced subscription to an on-demand comprehensive IPTV service, and watch/listen to what we want when we want by streaming it without needing to store it locally.

That's the way I see things going, anyway.

I fully agree.

People basically go where the good content is. The internet should open things up...I'm sick of speed channel only showing nascar (WRC!!!!), I'm sick of being behind 1/2 a season of battlestar galactica. I have to download shows???? I hope the traditional networks get sideswiped by some internet content company that offers choice. It's painful like watching GM slowly trying to make good compact cars 20yrs after the japanese brought them here. Could they be any slower? Status Quo.

[xlr8shun]

remember for every person 'they' employ to hamper our right to view the content we pay for, when we want, where we want, and how we want, there will be ten more that arent employed and are smart enough to get around the system.

granted, it might be illegal, and probably will be, but lets face it. recording the tv shows you pay for, in the quality you want, to be able to watch them when you want, and how you want, where ever you choose isnt like commiting genocide or anything. but for every line of code written by someone, there are a handful of others just waiting to reverse engineer it to make it work like they want it to. its only a matter of time before it filters down to everyone else. at which point 'they' will come out with some other grand scheme to end all the worlds problems (so they think) and we'll start the process all over again.

while this may be the end of homebrew pvr's as we know it, it very well could be the next generation of homebrew pvr's. there may be just a small lapse while things get situated and put into place. you can be sure the transition from old homebrew to new homebrew wont be seemless but i cant belive this will be 'the end' that people seem to think is coming.

[blade]

Originally Posted by xlr8shun

remember for every person 'they' employ to hamper our right to view the content we pay for, when we want, where we want, and how we want, there will be ten more that arent employed and are smart enough to get around the system.

When we subscribe to cable or satellite we're paying for the right to view the content that's being shown; however, I don't recall seeing anything in my cable agreement saying I have the right to view it when or where I want. I don't want to see things get locked down either, but I don't think we have as many "rights" as most people think just because we pay a monthly subscriber fee. I could be wrong because I've never sat down and read through my cable agreement all that closely. So if I'm mistaken and it's clearly stated in the user agreement someone please point it out.

[src666]

Originally Posted by blade

When we subscribe to cable or satellite we're paying for the right to view the content that's being shown; however, I don't recall seeing anything in my cable agreement saying I have the right to view it when or where I want. I don't want to see things get locked down either, but I don't think we have as many "rights" as most people think just because we pay a monthly subscriber fee. I could be wrong because I've never sat down and read through my cable agreement all that closely. So if I'm mistaken and it's clearly stated in the user agreement someone please point it out.

We are paying them to _deliver_ the content. Remember, DirecTV, Comcast, Verizon, etc. do not (for the most part) OWN the content. They are delivery services - nothing more. They have no right whatsoever to tell us how, where or when to view or use the content. If we were to actually infringe the copyright (i.e. record and sell) of the content, your cable/satellite provider would be powerless. It's up the the content owner to enforce restrictions.

Once the content has entered our control (our house, our devices), we accrue certain rights. If nothing else, we accrue fair use rights. These rights (enshrined by the Sony decision) say we can record the shows for later viewing. Period.

The content industry, on the other hand, believes that every single time we see/hear their stuff, we owe them money. In their view, we get value each time we "use" their content, so we should pay them each time. The law doesn't support this theory, but by wrapping everything in DRM and buying the DMCA, they are getting that control whether it's supported by law or not.

[phenixdragon]

I'm not toow orried about this whole prebuilt thing. It is just another hurtle to be cracked. I see it like DVDs, which are cracked and the tools are easy to find. I mean right now I enjoy no 5c on any channel through Comcast. I do want DirecTV in my box directly but I know I will have to wait for it to be cracked. And I dont mean as DRM being cracked but the ability to build your own media center. And at some point anyone will be able to build a system w/o cracking it. It's just stupid not to have users build there own, a lot of money will be lost.

And as for Mike goes, I remember something about him awhile back. Any big company generally will hire an outside CEO to run the company because they will go for a guy who knows how to do it which Dan would have a harder time on doing. I am sure Dan and Jeff own a majority just like how Google is. They got a CEO from the outside but the 2 founders still own a majority of the company so they basically can do what they want. But of course they aren't stupid and will listen to the CEO as he has the smarts on running the company.

[jptaz]

I think that cotent will be available for at least a decade without DRM....not HD content or digital content, but the same quality content as today.

Remember that the switch to HD and all Analog OTA going away has been postponed several times now. While we are early adopters, the vast majority of the population still does not have an HD TV. Until a large enough percentage does Content providers will have to, scratch that, want to provide an analog option (Coax, Composite, Svideo).

If I am a content provider why would I chose to destory my revenue source? Even when the switch from Analog OTA to HD OTA happens I would be willing to bet that most if not all Cable Cos will be converting that to an SD format that is viewable on SD displays. It may require a STB, but that is even better for them since that gives them another revenue source.

John

[GTwannabe]

I fully expect OTA stations to just divide their digital bandwidth and offer more lower quality digital channels to better compete with cable.

[Mike]

Regarding the ownership of content. The "studios" may own the content, but that doesn't do them any good. If they want to keep producing content and eating dinner they have to have a paycheck. That comes from you and me.

The credit card companies have gotten pretty good at dictating terms. They can get away with it to an extent because we want to use THIER money for a while.

In the case of the studios, they want our money AND they want to dictate the terms. That can only happen if we don't speak loudly and with a unified voice.

MBrew