Please clarify extenders for interested buyer

[minimatt]

Hi All! I just discovered SageTV the other day, and thus far it looks to be exactly the type of thing I want. Mostly, I want to be able to run a media server of DVD movies, TV episodes, Albums, etc ..... And then I learn about the Sage Media Extender... GREAT! This IS what I want! Upon more reading I have learnt the following (I think) ... Can those in the know please confirm these points :-

* Extenders seem to be tempermental in connecting to your server

* Extenders suffer from a brightness issue ... i.e Too dull

* Extenders won't play ripped DVDs (WTF?? This would be one of the MAIN points to buying one, wouldn't it?) I actually e-mailed SageTV 2 days ago about this..... no response

* Extenders are just a Haupagge MVP with new firmware

* Extenders look exactly the same as a PC client.

* Extenders can use 3rd party STVs just like a PC client

* Extenders do NOT currently support PAL


One last Q .... If I am correct in my belief that the Sage device is just a Haupagge unit, can I buy the Haupagge unit and update it's firmware to be just like a Sage client PC... i.e. Has someone written a hack for this?

Sorry if I sound lost... I am! I'm no technophobe by any means, but it's hard to find concrete, definitive information on all these points.

[waltraud]

* Extenders seem to be tempermental in connecting to your server
For me it work ok and was only a matter of enabling the MVP in Sage and powering on the MVP. I think people who used a wireless gaming adapter had some problems.

* Extenders suffer from a brightness issue ... i.e Too dull
Wouldn't be able to tell. Me TV is to old .......

* Extenders won't play ripped DVDs (WTF?? This would be one of the MAIN points to buying one, wouldn't it?) I actually e-mailed SageTV 2 days ago about this..... no response
I never tried this but I think there was a discussion about this in either the MVP or Beta Forum
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

* Extenders are just a Haupagge MVP with new firmware
Yes

* Extenders look exactly the same as a PC client.
Yes

* Extenders can use 3rd party STVs just like a PC client
Yes

* Extenders do NOT currently support PAL
Yes it does. I am currently using it in Ireland without major problems

One last Q .... If I am correct in my belief that the Sage device is just a Haupagge unit, can I buy the Haupagge unit and update it's firmware to be just like a Sage client PC... i.e. Has someone written a hack for this?
Yes. You don't even need to do a firmware update. I didn't look into the technical details but I think the MVP receives/boots the firmware via the network everytime you switch it on.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by minimatt

* Extenders seem to be tempermental in connecting to your server

I think the address configuration you can use is being improved, but once your network/firewall is configured for the MVP to get through, it should always work.

* Extenders suffer from a brightness issue ... i.e Too dull

This does not affect every unit.

* Extenders won't play ripped DVDs

The MVP is not capable of decoding DVDs; I don't know if transcoding will be available for this due to the way DVDs are played.

* Extenders are just a Haupagge MVP with new firmware

I don't think firmware is the proper term -- it loads SageTV's software when it connects to the server instead of Hauppauge's.

* Extenders look exactly the same as a PC client.

* Extenders can use 3rd party STVs just like a PC client

Yes, except for a few config options that aren't available on an MVP, such as which decoder to use -- it always uses the built-in MVP hardware decoder.

* Extenders do NOT currently support PAL

PAL is now supported.

If I am correct in my belief that the Sage device is just a Haupagge unit, can I buy the Haupagge unit and update it's firmware to be just like a Sage client PC... i.e. Has someone written a hack for this?

There is no 'hack' -- SageTV can use any MVP. If you already have an MVP, you still need to purchase an extender license.

Edit: oh well, another reply while I was typing.

- Andy

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by minimatt

...
* Extenders seem to be tempermental in connecting to your server

* Extenders suffer from a brightness issue ... i.e Too dull

You have to realize that a minority of Sage users post in the forums and then only a minority of those have experienced these issues. I have not experienced either. In any case Sage is usually very good at squashing bugs and usually sooner than later.

* Extenders won't play ripped DVDs (WTF?? This would be one of the MAIN points to buying one, wouldn't it?) I actually e-mailed SageTV 2 days ago about this..... no response

This is true but it is a limitation of the Hauppage hardware. Sage my include ripped DVD support in their transcoder in the near future.

* Extenders are just a Haupagge MVP with new firmware

* Extenders look exactly the same as a PC client.

No, extenders are just a Hauppage MVP. No new firmware and they don't look like a PC client.

* Extenders can use 3rd party STVs just like a PC client

Yes.

* Extenders do NOT currently support PAL

I believe there ARE MVP's that support PAL but I'm not sure if Sage supports them yet. They will be supported soon I'm sure.

One last Q .... If I am correct in my belief that the Sage device is just a Haupagge unit, can I buy the Haupagge unit and update it's firmware to be just like a Sage client PC... i.e. Has someone written a hack for this?

Sorry if I sound lost... I am! I'm no technophobe by any means, but it's hard to find concrete, definitive information on all these points.

You can buy an MVP from somewhere else as long as you purchase an extender license for it. No need to update the firmware but there are limitations compared to a full PC based client.

*edit - Damn! TWO replies before I could type this.

[minimatt]

Hmmmmm .... Was the MVP rushed into production? It just seems to me that not supporting DVD/VOBS is odd and the lack of AC3 is just a gross oversight. I mean, even AU$40 DVD players have 5.1 Dolby Digital decoders on-board.... How easy would it have been to include this in the MVP as well as having RGB & YUV outputs.... (another thing almost all AU$40 DVD players have).... and have a really superb & versatile product!

Anyhow.... I have read mentions of SageTV soon offering DivX playback by transcoding on the server....... Honestly DivX really doesn't interest me that much .... but if they are doing this, then surely it must be pretty easy to do AC3 transcoding on the server.... and much less CPU intensive! I am happy to rip my DVDs to one big VOB file, lose the menus and chapters, and rename to .MPG .... BUT there is no way it worth the time to stuff around converting all the audio tracks.... especially when the next big thing could be around the corner that will do all I want it to do ...... I hope it's SageTV as I do like the look of it.

[minimatt]

Oh ... also, there seems to be disagreement with you guys as to whether the MVP looks the same on screen as a PC client..... which is it?

Thanks for your time guys....

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by minimatt

Hmmmmm .... Was the MVP rushed into production? It just seems to me that not supporting DVD/VOBS is odd and the lack of AC3 is just a gross oversight. I mean, even AU$40 DVD players have 5.1 Dolby Digital decoders on-board.... How easy would it have been to include this in the MVP as well as having RGB & YUV outputs.... (another thing almost all AU$40 DVD players have).... and have a really superb & versatile product!

No, it wasn't rushed into production. The reason it doesn't support DVD/Vobs is a licensing issue. DVD's aren't 'allowed' to be streamed over a network due to CSS restrictions. The MVP is strictly a network playback device. RGB and YUV aren't there because most TV's can't input them to begin with.

Originally Posted by minimatt

Anyhow.... I have read mentions of SageTV soon offering DivX playback by transcoding on the server....... Honestly DivX really doesn't interest me that much .... but if they are doing this, then surely it must be pretty easy to do AC3 transcoding on the server.... and much less CPU intensive! I am happy to rip my DVDs to one big VOB file, lose the menus and chapters, and rename to .MPG .... BUT there is no way it worth the time to stuff around converting all the audio tracks.... especially when the next big thing could be around the corner that will do all I want it to do ...... I hope it's SageTV as I do like the look of it.

Technology wise, the transcoding in Sage should be more than capable of transcoding DVD/Vobs to the MVP. The transcoding currently is 'experimental' but seems to work very well on Divx. Sage has made no official statements regarding the transcoding for "other formats" but I suspect it will be forthcoming. If not, we should start a 'project' in the Customizations forum and see if we users could implement it now that we have Studio.

-PGPfan

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by minimatt

Oh ... also, there seems to be disagreement with you guys as to whether the MVP looks the same on screen as a PC client..... which is it?

Thanks for your time guys....

The on screen UI using the MVP is IDENTICAL to the PC client (not counting the option to playback a DVD), and will use whatever .stv you choose to run as well.

-PGPfan

[minimatt]

Thanks PGP..... That's what I needed to know. So, I guess transcoding will come in the form of a 3rd party mod rather than from Sage due to licensing issues.... Don't suppose anyone is already working on this? ... hmmm? I wouldn't mind betting there's some clever cookies out there who want exactly the same I do from Sage.

[cosmocat]

The MVPs on sale in UK ( and presumably the rest of Europe ) comes with a SCART connector and is supposed to be capable of RGB output. Though I have not tried that feature yet.

Regards

[minimatt]

Yes, I saw that pic on their UK site.... Not all Scart sockets provide RGB though unfortunately..... Searching around the web I did see mention of being able to order the unit with choice of video outputs... i.e.. composite/s-cideo or comp/rgb etc ...... might have been total BS though .... I shall e-mail Hauppauge and see what sort of response I get.....

Also, does anyone know of an AC3 transcoder in the works?

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by minimatt

Thanks PGP..... That's what I needed to know. So, I guess transcoding will come in the form of a 3rd party mod rather than from Sage due to licensing issues.... Don't suppose anyone is already working on this? ... hmmm? I wouldn't mind betting there's some clever cookies out there who want exactly the same I do from Sage.

As for a 3rd party 'mod', I think folks have been waiting for a comment one way or another from Sage. They 'could' provide transcoding support without violating any license (after all, we're just talking about "personal DVD's" that don't have any copy protections, right?) since Sage can already playback DVD's that are archived to the hdd.

There are MANY of us that are waiting for this transcoding to happen. The transcoding engine used in Sage is 'ffmpeg' and it has the capability, I just don't think anyone as yet wants to commit to a project if Sage already has it in the works. They (Sage) have commented about "other formats" for transcoding into, but have not elaborated. It would be a shame to dedicate the time and work necessary for a project if it's not needed.

-PGPfan

[minimatt]

I hear you PGP .... I wish I had the coding skills to do the job, but alas I do not. Does anyone on this forum know who we might squeeze the info out of? Does anyone here work for SageTV? It would be great to know! I haven't purchased anything yet, but I am impressed with what I have seen thus far..... If distributed DVD rips to clients including MVPs was in the works, I would buy NOW! ..... & there must be others like me. Come on Sage.... Give us the low-down