How will SageTV survive?

[scavenge]

I'm thinking SageTV is a prime buyout opportunity.

If I was Steve Jobs I'd buy the whole company tommorow, spend a little bit porting the Linux version over to OSX, do some fancy mactizing of the interface and then bring out an httpc that actually does everything and does it best.

Imagine a 30" widecreen imac levereging the combined power of SageTV and iTunes and iChat AV ... that would be windows MC killer if I ever saw one ...

[aperry]

Originally Posted by scavenge

I'm thinking SageTV is a prime buyout opportunity.

If I was Steve Jobs I'd buy the whole company tommorow, spend a little bit porting the Linux version over to OSX, do some fancy mactizing of the interface and then bring out an httpc that actually does everything and does it best.

Imagine a 30" widecreen imac levereging the combined power of SageTV and iTunes and iChat AV ... that would be windows MC killer if I ever saw one ...

I would be so against this idea (assuming you are also inferring that the existing versions would disappear into the ether)!!! Not that I could do anything about it if it were to happen... And 30" widescreen, please... That's half the diagonal measure of my current display unit, not to mention that I would not invest in the necessary hardware that it would take (i.e. "Mac" stuff) to get this new thing.

If that happened, which I HIGHLY doubt it ever would, then Linux would be installed on my box, and Myth would be what I would run. Either that or one of the other Windows solutions.

All this being said, I'd support the idea of a Mac-compatible version of SageTV to get more folks into "our camp". We're already grabbing up some Linux folks even now...

[Mike]

There have been several comments that Sage is way better than the DVRs that are available from the cable companies, and that accordingly it will always have a market for those that are tech savvy enough to set it up and that want more.

Sage is software, and it is not limited to Windows. Sage becoming the DVR software for all of those cable companies is a distinct possibility and I believe that it is what they have had in mind for a long time. The market for individual users is pretty limited. A large OEM building media center PC's would be pretty good, but a cable company with just a couple of 100K subscribers would be a coup. Using Studio, each company can easily have it's own unique look. We have likely all been beta testers for that scenario.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining about that. We all have gotten a good program with some powerful features to use. Frey did not have to release Studio to us but they did, and didn't charge an extra dime for it.

Sage is in a good position to succeed, but It's entirely possible that we individual users may become an inconsequential part of Sages business.


MBrew

[src666]

Guys, CableCard 2.0 is going to be locked down so tight that only the big boys will be allowed to play. http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/30/c...certification/

Anyone who didn't see this coming was delusional. This is the reason that there were no CableCard 1.0 devices for the PC - the Cable and Content industries would _never_ allow it.

You get what you pay for on their terms, not yours.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by src666

Guys, CableCard 2.0 is going to be locked down so tight that only the big boys will be allowed to play. http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/30/c...certification/

http://www.vwbinc.com/press/112905pr.html

Anyone who didn't see this coming was delusional. This is the reason that there were no CableCard 1.0 devices for the PC - the Cable and Content industries would _never_ allow it.

It will be available with Vista, both CableCard and direct DirecTV.
http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=10...664&highlight=
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...DIRECTVPR.mspx

[dbfresh23]

Looks like someone hasn't been doing their homework! tisk tisk

[zz5]

Come on, src666, let's get with the program!

[dbfresh23]

How will BeyondTV, MythTV, Freevo, MediaPortal, or any other PC PVR app survive? Easy, there are obviously people that would rather use something like SageTV or the others because MCE doesn't fit thier needs or whatever reason. I find SageTV to be way more extensible then MCE. There are features on MCE that I like more then Sage, but doing a side by side comparison SageTV is ahead in the things I find more important - like supporting more then 2 tuners out of the box, and binding EPGs to tuners and not making all tuners use the same one. The only real stuff I like about MCE that makes me think sometimes is the way it recognizes media, cds and dvds, w/o my intervention and having to do a bunch of work to get the cd/dvd info - that is a cool feature, not quite as important as the other two though.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by Insyte

Is there a profitable market for a niche product like SageTV to survive? Most cable companies are providing PVR service for as little as $6 per month. Tivo, the 600 lb gorilla in the PVR field, is clearly feeling the pain.

Don't get me wrong: I'm very impressed with SageTV and will be making a purchase soon. I'm just nervous that, as the PVR field becomes more commoditized, SageTV might not be around to continue improving/supporting their fine product. Especially without ad revenue and recurring fees...

SageTV folks: Any insight? You clearly think you're going to survive. How do you plan to pull it off?

Curiously,
Ben

Easy answer here. Vista will support CableCard and DirecTV tuning. This also means others can support those options in their media software. This does mean they will have to support DRM but for most people, DRM is fine. Such as myself, I can care less about DRM as long as I get to record and reply my shows. I don't think anyone will survive Hollywood suing companies who don't use DRM. Look at all the companies on the music side shutdown or there was a company a year or two ago that just went under which allowed you to strip the encryption from DVDs to make copies of them. I forgot their name but they aren't around sellnig that software anymore. Or look at the founder of DVD Decrypt, he isn't allowed to develop it anymore or give it out and was forced to tell everyone to stop giving it out.

I do appoligize for going on about DRM but it will happen at some point, especially when you only can turn to digital stations as analog forced to go away.

[mikejaner]

I can care less about DRM as long as I get to record and reply my shows.

Reply? EDIT: I guess you mean replay, sorry.

I agree though. As long as I can record shows, keep them as long as I want on my system and can FF or REW whenever I want, I don't care what kind of DRM is on the systems.
I would also like the ability to transfer shows to any other PC or portable device in my household, which could be done with keys etc...

Mike

[phenixdragon]

I mean replay :P


Right now with MCE you can transfer your shows on your own devices, I haven't really used it myself so I'm not sure of the limits but from what I have read it works great. Granted I hate DRM, and for me it's just means I will have to wait around a bit until it's cracked and then it adds a task to me if I ever want to use the crack. But the other 99% of the time I won't notice a diffrence since it will still do what I am mostly doing. But I do hate it.

I think though that will sum it up. I don't see how with any way possible CableCard will work without the MCE software being forced to use DRM that MSFT has in Vista. But again maybe it will be cracked to work on XP and other devices but it wouldn't be lets say SageTV supporting it.

It would be more like how TiVo doesn't support or stop their boxes from being cracked, they just sit back and do nothing.

[stanger89]

I care, but since I have 0 interest in archiving or copying to a portable, I can deal with DRM so long as it doesn't affect my recording.

[Crazedz]

Ok so whats the verdict? Will cablecard support current HD tuners or will we need cablecard compliant tuners?

Sorry just not up on the whole Cablecard issue and haven't had time to do all the searching/sifting of info.


Also what HD tuners support multi HD tuners in the same system anybody know?

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

Ok so whats the verdict? Will cablecard support current HD tuners or will we need cablecard compliant tuners?

You will need a tuner that accepts a cablecard, I think the tuners you are thinking of are the OTA tuners - not cablecard.

[Crazedz]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

You will need a tuner that accepts a cablecard, I think the tuners you are thinking of are the OTA tuners - not cablecard.

The HD cards that support Qam like the divico tuners wont accept cablecard?

OK then so since my PVR 250 went to the great tuner in the sky and needing cablecard support might as well not spend money on any more HD cards i guess. Ill just get a pvr500 then and milk it till i can't get sd content anymore i guess.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Crazedz

The HD cards that support Qam like the divico tuners wont accept cablecard?

Not a chance. You're probably going to need a whole new computer, and definitely a new OS for cablecard.

[Crazedz]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Not a chance. You're probably going to need a whole new computer, and definitely a new OS for cablecard.

Yeah i really see that happening sometime this century

I upgrade on my schedule and in my own way not MS's or Cablelabs or anybody else's

[src666]

Originally Posted by zz5

Come on, src666, let's get with the program!

So far not a single source to contradict my assertion that CableCard 2 will NOT be available for just anyone. You will have to certify the _entire_ computer to ensure that the secured pathway is in place and active. This is not going to be a technology for homebrew systems. Period.

VWB announces that they signed a pact to include CC2, and are also clear that the signal protections will be in place. ATI announces an upcoming card that "will allow Media Center PCs that run on the forthcoming Microsoft Windows Vista operating system, to receive High Definition premium digital cable TV content on the PC" = secured signal path.

No transcoding without permission.
No portability without permission.
No archival without permission.
No _nothing_ without permission.

Again, I assert that anyone who believes that the next generation of TV signals will be available to people who want to "roll their own" solutions is delusional. The content industry won't let that happen.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by src666

Again, I assert that anyone who believes that the next generation of TV signals will be available to people who want to "roll their own" solutions is delusional. The content industry won't let that happen.

If this does wind up being the case it could mean bad news for local cable companies. Since DirecTV doesn't answer to Cable Labs and their stupid certification process they can start shipping some retail DTV tuners and steal a ton of cable customers with their soon to be new triple play package featuring WiMAX and VOIP. Obviously they still need to have it secured, but that's what the forced upgrade to vista is supposed to be for. Hopefully the EFF will stick it's nose in there and have a judge force cable labs to certify individual components.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

If this does wind up being the case it could mean bad news for local cable companies. Since DirecTV doesn't answer to Cable Labs and their stupid certification process they can start shipping some retail DTV tuners and steal a ton of cable customers with their soon to be new triple play package featuring WiMAX and VOIP. Obviously they still need to have it secured, but that's what the forced upgrade to vista is supposed to be for. Hopefully the EFF will stick it's nose in there and have a judge force cable labs to certify individual components.

I would love to see DirecTV steal all of the thunder of the whole Cable Labs certification issue. I have DirecTV now and don't want to switch. Providing cards which can tune for any application which will comply with DRM for the content would be the way to go for me.