A Few Questions - PVR-500

[mike1961]

Hello - I'm about to buy the Sage product...looks great and my trial will be coming to a close soon but I have a few questions:

1. On the main server - I'm looking to install 2 Win TV 500 mce Tuner cards. Will the sage support that (2 cards / 4 tuners)? I ask because the mce stands for media center edition and I'm not sure if it requires those drivers and only works with Windows media center?

2. When adding an extra Win TV tuner card, does anyone know if I have to add the drivers again even if they are already installed from another Win TV Tuner card in the computer?

3. If my server is a Win XP media center but I'm not going to run media center is that ok? Is that best or XP home or XP media center or XP Pro or doesn't matter?

4. On my "client" computers I will have an Adelphia box (for each of two TV's). This is because one needs to Adelphia box to access channels above 100 and the box can only be tuned to one channel at a time. Therefore, I'm thinking I will need to put a tuner card in each of the client computers so that I can watch and record channels above 100. But, I'll still be able to record channels below 100 on the server at the same time. I hope all this makes sense. The question is how will the client know which tuner card to use when recording? How will it know when to use the tuner card in the client (for channels above 100) and when to use the card in the server for recording channels below 100. Does it first check for a tuner card in the client? Ideally it would be nice to have access to all the channels but I think I would need a box for each tuner card and it just seems very confusing whcn changing channels if there were four Adelphia boxes at the server.

5. Why am I able to Add a Source from the client (a tuner card)? Wouldn't that be done only on the server?

6. What are the pluses/minuses between Windows Media Center and SageTV. I already know that Windows Media Center does not record standard mpg files and Sage does so to me that's a huge plus if for convenience alone.

Thanks,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Hello - I'm about to buy the Sage product...looks great and my trial will be coming to a close soon but I have a few questions:

1. On the main server - I'm looking to install 2 Win TV 500 mce Tuner cards. Will the sage support that (2 cards / 4 tuners)? I ask because the mce stands for media center edition and I'm not sure if it requires those drivers and only works with Windows media center?

Should, Sage has no limit on tuners, and I believe a few here are using multiple 500s. And the MCE part just means it doesn't come with it's own recording app or remote control. I'm running my 500 in Windows Server 2003

2. When adding an extra Win TV tuner card, does anyone know if I have to add the drivers again even if they are already installed from another Win TV Tuner card in the computer?

If it's the same drivers (like a previous 500, or a 150 - the 150/500 use the same drivers) then you shouldn't have to, if you're combining, like a 250/500, then yes.

3. If my server is a Win XP media center but I'm not going to run media center is that ok? Is that best or XP home or XP media center or XP Pro or doesn't matter?

It's fine, just make sure you disable the MCE servcies (ehome something or other) because they'll commandeer the card.

4. On my "client" computers I will have an Adelphia box (for each of two TV's). This is because one needs to Adelphia box to access channels above 100 and the box can only be tuned to one channel at a time. Therefore, I'm thinking I will need to put a tuner card in each of the client computers so that I can watch and record channels above 100. But, I'll still be able to record channels below 100 on the server at the same time. I hope all this makes sense. The question is how will the client know which tuner card to use when recording? How will it know when to use the tuner card in the client (for channels above 100) and when to use the card in the server for recording channels below 100. Does it first check for a tuner card in the client? Ideally it would be nice to have access to all the channels but I think I would need a box for each tuner card and it just seems very confusing whcn changing channels if there were four Adelphia boxes at the server.

To answer your primary question, Sage knows which tuners can record what channels (you tell it during source setup) and will record from the appropriate tuner.

Now some unsolicited comments.

Your proposed config is, IMO not ideal, and not the most cost effective. For Sage to use the tuners in your clients, you will have to setup a network encoder on each client. If that's a 150 or 500, that means you'll have to run a copy of SageTV instead of SageClient, and setup an encoding server. The ideal setup (IMO) would be to put your cable boxes near the server and run them into the cards in the server.

5. Why am I able to Add a Source from the client (a tuner card)? Wouldn't that be done only on the server?

It doesn't really matter, the changes on the client affect whatever source you pick, wherever it is. I like it because I my server is headless, and I never run the Sage UI on it.

6. What are the pluses/minuses between Windows Media Center and SageTV. I already know that Windows Media Center does not record standard mpg files and Sage does so to me that's a huge plus if for convenience alone.

Oh, that's a whole can of worms in and of itself. But the non-subjective stuff:

Tuners:
Sage has no limit on number
MCE limits you to 2 SD and 2 HD tuners
Sage supports remote tuners (network encoders)
MCE does not

Recording:
Sage can record to multiple, arbitrary locations
MCE (without digging) will only record to a single local drive

Clients
Sage supports PC clients (SageClient)
MCE does not
Sage (will) supports cheap extenders (currently the MVP via Matt's plugin)
MCE supports MCExteners (more expensive than the MVP)
Sage requires a PC for HD client
MCE supports HD extenders (Xbox 360)

[mike1961]

Thanks for the reply I am still confused about some of the device names.

1. What's a network encoder and also what is an encoding server? Is it used when you are running SageTV on the client or SageClient on the client? I'm not understanding what these do.

2. Thanks for you advice on putting the cable boxes at the server. Assuming I go that route (which I think I will) then I would think I would need something to put in the client so that I have a remote control at the client that then tells some card in the client to control a tuner in the server (or maybe I mean to say something that just allows the remote to run the sage program on the client rather than use a keyboard). What's that called and about how much does that run?

3. Am I correct in assuming most users don't get much more than say 6 tuners in a server since you don't find many motherboards with more than 3 available pci slots (after a graphics card or other slots being used)? Seems like until they come out with cards that support 3 tuners on the card, one is somewhat limited but not too bad.

4. you said: "Sage (will) supports cheap extenders (currently the MVP via Matt's plugin)"

what is an extender? Is it something to use rather than a computer as a client?

5. you said: "MCE supports MCExteners (more expensive than the MVP)
Sage requires a PC for HD client MCE supports HD extenders (Xbox 360)"

What 's an MVP. Do you think it's best to just get a computer as the client for Sage? One thing I can say is it would be kind of nice to get a low end computer for a client which I can find for around $300 with XP Home (probably less on the net). But, it seems like 98% of everything out there is with tower cases. It would be nice to find them with desktop cases so that the computer looks like a VHS/DVD or a Tivo.

Thanks again,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Thanks for the reply I am still confused about some of the device names.

1. What's a network encoder and also what is an encoding server?

Network encoder is a remote (over the network) tuner basically. Encoding server is a mode of running SageTV that lets it act as a network encoder for another instance of SageTV.

Is it used when you are running SageTV on the client or SageClient on the client? I'm not understanding what these do.

SageTV as a client (for another copy of SageTV on a different PC).

2. Thanks for you advice on putting the cable boxes at the server. Assuming I go that route (which I think I will) then I would think I would need something to put in the client so that I have a remote control at the client that then tells some card in the client to control a tuner in the server (or maybe I mean to say something that just allows the remote to run the sage program on the client rather than use a keyboard). What's that called and about how much does that run?

SageTV takes care of all the tuner management, you don't need anything special on the client to make the server tune stuff.

On the server you'll either need a serial cable (search for DTC2000 maybe, or your cable box model, somebody can help you out), or a USB-UIRT to control the cable box.

If you want a remote for the client, then you could get Streamzap, Firefly, (or similar) or a USB-UIRT and a remote of your choice.

3. Am I correct in assuming most users don't get much more than say 6 tuners in a server since you don't find many motherboards with more than 3 available pci slots (after a graphics card or other slots being used)? Seems like until they come out with cards that support 3 tuners on the card, one is somewhat limited but not too bad.

Lots of the non-PCIe boards have 5 PCI slots, but you can always put tuners in other PCs (network encoders) to get beyond the hardware limitations of a single PC. Of course I'd guess most will find 3 tuners are plenty.

4. you said: "Sage (will) supports cheap extenders (currently the MVP via Matt's plugin)"

what is an extender? Is it something to use rather than a computer as a client?

Yeah, basically a box that runs SageTV instead of a whole PC. Right now you can get a Hauppauge Media MVP and use Matt's MVP plugin right now. Soon you'll be able to officially run SageTV on an MVP:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...68&postcount=4

5. you said: "MCE supports MCExteners (more expensive than the MVP)
Sage requires a PC for HD client MCE supports HD extenders (Xbox 360)"

What 's an MVP.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815116617

Do you think it's best to just get a computer as the client for Sage?

It depends, on a lot of things. There's no way an extender could replace my main HTPC/Sage client, but that's hooked up to my HT system with a front projector an full 5.1 system, I'd give up too much (configureability, quality to a degree). But I'll be using an extender for my livingroom TV, maybe a kitchen TV too.

One thing I can say is it would be kind of nice to get a low end computer for a client which I can find for around $300 with XP Home (probably less on the net). But, it seems like 98% of everything out there is with tower cases. It would be nice to find them with desktop cases so that the computer looks like a VHS/DVD or a Tivo.

Well the MVP is $88 at newegg, and will give you a full Sage client, but it's only SD output and analog stereo audio.

Both extenders and full HTPCs have their place, I plan on using both