A Few General Questions

[mike1961]

Hello - I've been testing the trial version and I'm about to buy the Sage product. I have a few general questions though:

1. I'm testing the general product on my main PC (I will eventually have four computers with Sage). So, if I get it with one client to start I'll continue to test it on two computers. Can I later after testing uninstall the main Sage program from my computer and install it on a different computer as the server and configure my main pc as a client?

2. I'm still a little confused about why it's so important to set up clients and one server? Can someone provide a simple example of why? Also, I know the server must run on an XP or 2000 machine but can the clients run on Win 98?

3. If I have say 4 computers and one is the server the other 3 computers would when watching shows create a buffer...if this is saved over the LAN (on the server's hard drive) it seems there would be a lot of network activity especially if many are watching or recording shows at the same time? In fact, if the other computers were just watching a saved show it seems it would generate a lot of activity on the LAN. Would a 100mbs router be able to keep up (especially when several clients are recording at the same time)?

4. Eventually I would like to build a library (Archives) of a lot of shows. I'm wondering if it all has to be stored on one hard drive on the server or is it possible to have multiple drives? Also, is it possible to create folders in the Archives for organization (ie: Horror, Comedy, etc).

5. I noticed that when changing the channel the buffer gets cleared. Is it possible to set a fixed length for the buffer (say 1 hours) where it is not cleared when one changes the channel. If I'm watching TV and I'm behind real time by say 15 minutes and I accidentally change the channel then I can't go back and watch what I missed.

6. Is it possible to make it so that the server has say two drives where one is a mountable USB with archives of movies. In this way I would quickly and easily be able to attach a different USB external drive with different shows on it. The SAGE could then display the shows on both the fixed drive as well as the USB.

Thanks,
Mike

[aperry]

1. This should be fine, I would imagine, but I'll leave this for someone else.

2. The main benefit you get by going with the client/server setup is that additional machines (clients) can access data on the server, and the client software only costs $30. Plus, in using this setup, you have all of your recordings available in one place, available to all the clients. Regarding system requirements, according to the Client features page, the operating system requirement is "Microsoft Windows 98SE, 2000 SP3 or higher, ME or XP".

3. I'll leave this for someone else, except to say that under the "standard" configuration, your server does all the recording, so there is no network traffic going on. Your network traffic would only be when you are watching a show or recording from the server.

4. You can have setup more than one spot for videos on your server. It's done in the setup screens. The only way to set "genres" would be to store the files in subfolders called "Horror", "Comedy", etc.

5. I was unaware of this. I don't remember the last time I actually watched live TV... Anyhow, I think the answer here is sort of. I think that if you changed off the channel and went back quickly, it would "keep" your buffer in place. You would have lost the time you were actually not on the channel, but you would have the rest. I could be wrong on this one, but I think that's how it works.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mike1961

1. I'm testing the general product on my main PC (I will eventually have four computers with Sage). So, if I get it with one client to start I'll continue to test it on two computers. Can I later after testing uninstall the main Sage program from my computer and install it on a different computer as the server and configure my main pc as a client?

Yes. If you do this after purchasing & entering the license key, then use the REGISTER command line parameter, as described on p. 230 in the PDF manual in your SageTV dir.

2. I'm still a little confused about why it's so important to set up clients and one server? Can someone provide a simple example of why?

You could use multiple servers, but they won't 'talk' to each other. They will each create their own recordings regardless of what any other server is doing. If you want all recordings to be available on all systems, with full show info on all files at each PC, and a unified viewing history tracking what you've watched on all systems, then you want a server + clients. If you want each PC to have a tuner, then you need the full server software on each system, with one acting as the server & the others acting as network encoders + client -- but they all still talk to one main server & that one must remain on.

If you want each system to track only its own recordings, viewing history, etc, then you want 4 separate servers.

3. <network throughput>

I'll leave that to others.

4. Eventually I would like to build a library (Archives) of a lot of shows. I'm wondering if it all has to be stored on one hard drive on the server or is it possible to have multiple drives? Also, is it possible to create folders in the Archives for organization (ie: Horror, Comedy, etc).

You can use mutiple drives for both SageTV Recordings and Media Center import directories. You can also now move recordings to import dirs, though some care should be taken when doing so if you want the recordings to retain their show info. You can arrange your import dirs however you want, but SageTV will only record to the recording dir(s) that are specified -- see Appendix C in the manual.

5. I noticed that when changing the channel the buffer gets cleared. Is it possible to set a fixed length for the buffer (say 1 hours) where it is not cleared when one changes the channel. If I'm watching TV and I'm behind real time by say 15 minutes and I accidentally change the channel then I can't go back and watch what I missed.

SageTV does not use buffers for live TV; it records each show to its own individual file. You should be able to change channels & return to a channel with the earlier section of recording still available. Shortly after the live TV show is over & you are no longer watching that show, the file will be deleted -- see the bottom of p. 228 in the v4 manual.

6. Is it possible to make it so that the server has say two drives where one is a mountable USB with archives of movies. In this way I would quickly and easily be able to attach a different USB external drive with different shows on it. The SAGE could then display the shows on both the fixed drive as well as the USB.

It might work as an import directory & you may need to Refresh Imported Media when you switch drives.

- Andy

[mike1961]

First - your support is great...I love how fast you respond...thank you and I do intend on getting this product either tomorrow or the following day. I just need to do a little more testing but I have a few more questions.

Originally Posted by Opus4

If you want each PC to have a tuner, then you need the full server software on each system, with one acting as the server & the others acting as network encoders + client -- but they all still talk to one main server & that one must remain on.
- Andy

QUESTION1: Can you please elaborate on that a little more. If I want a tuner card in a separate pc (not the one that is the server) then what software am I running? Am I running the SagePC and not the client? If so, there must be some way to tell it to look for a server.

QUESTION2: Also - I would probably need to configure it this way only on one other computer. So, Computer1 is the server with a tuner card. Computer2 has a tuner card. Computers 3 and 4 do not need a tuner card. So, do I need to buy two full products at $79.95 each and two clients and $29.95 each?

Question3: Is the SageTV recorder a consideration to buy if one is already getting the full product (which appears to already have recording built in)?

Thanks again,
Mike

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mike1961

First - your support is great...I love how fast you respond...thank you and I do intend on getting this product either tomorrow or the following day. I just need to do a little more testing but I have a few more questions.

You must buy today !!!

QUESTION1: Can you please elaborate on that a little more. If I want a tuner card in a separate pc (not the one that is the server) then what software am I running? Am I running the SagePC and not the client? If so, there must be some way to tell it to look for a server.

In short, you need SageTV for any PC with a tuner, and SageClient for any without.

On your main "server" you run SageTV as normal, with the server enabled. Everything else will connect to this for recording/viewing.

On the "client" PC with the tuner, you would also run SageTV, but this time you would configure it as an encoding server. Basically the recording portion of it gets slaved to the server, and the client part connects to the server and works as a normal client.

QUESTION2: Also - I would probably need to configure it this way only on one other computer. So, Computer1 is the server with a tuner card. Computer2 has a tuner card. Computers 3 and 4 do not need a tuner card. So, do I need to buy two full products at $79.95 each and two clients and $29.95 each?

Yes.

Question3: Is the SageTV recorder a consideration to buy if one is already getting the full product (which appears to already have recording built in)?

Nope.

[Gog]

Originally Posted by stanger89

On the "client" PC with the tuner, you would also run SageTV, but this time you would configure it as an encoding server. Basically the recording portion of it gets slaved to the server, and the client part connects to the server and works as a normal client.

couldn't he save a few bucks with a client and recorder software on that machine ?

Originally Posted by mike1961

3. If I have say 4 computers and one is the server the other 3 computers would when watching shows create a buffer...if this is saved over the LAN (on the server's hard drive) it seems there would be a lot of network activity especially if many are watching or recording shows at the same time? In fact, if the other computers were just watching a saved show it seems it would generate a lot of activity on the LAN. Would a 100mbs router be able to keep up (especially when several clients are recording at the same time)?

worse case scenario here, you have 3 client streaming video to play and one streaming video to the server to save it.

With non-HD signal you're talking about 4x2GB/hour on a switch that can do 100Mb/s

I'm probably going to miss an order of magnitude here but I'm sure someone will pick it up


4x2x1024x8/3600=18.2Mb/s

Even with the overhead of the network you should be fine.

Gog

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Gog

couldn't he save a few bucks with a client and recorder software on that machine ?

Depends... SageTV Recorder doesn't support as many types of tuners as SageTV, and Recorder isn't being updated to do so.

- Andy

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Gog

worse case scenario here,...
4x2x1024x8/3600=18.2Mb/s

Absolute worst case scenario:

3 clients watching
1 network encoder
Max bitrate of 12Mbps

3x 12Mbps down/outbound = 36Mbps
1x 12Mbps up/inbound = 12Mbps

Should be no problem even with a 100TX half-duplex.

[flavius]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Should be no problem even with a 100TX half-duplex.

True. However, if you decide to move bigger files around, like movies, to prepare them for burning and the like, you precious bandwidth most likely will get cannibalized, and you gonna see nasty hickups. I put server and secondary storage into a gigabit back bone. Something to consider.

[mike1961]

Originally Posted by flavius

True. However, if you decide to move bigger files around, like movies, to prepare them for burning and the like, you precious bandwidth most likely will get cannibalized, and you gonna see nasty hickups. I put server and secondary storage into a gigabit back bone. Something to consider.

What do you mean by a gigabit back bone? Are you saying you switched your network to a 1 gb rather than 100 mbs?

Also - worst case scenario could be worse...suppose you have your example where 3 clients are watching pre recorded sage videos and perhaps one or two is also recording say 3 shows at the same time? Also, I will have to test this but 100 mbs is the maximum transfer rate of the hub...reality may be less after processing and other checksum tests.

QUESTION: LAN TRAFFIC: Is there ANY way that one can tell the Sage NOT to direct transfers over the LAN to the server when watching Live TV but rather save the stream to the local hard drive then if one decides to record that show then the Sage would transfer it to the server. I suppose that may be asking too much but I would think that would drastically cut the LAN traffic since a lot of shows are probably just watched live. Also - how often does one actually "STOP" the sage? Don't most just turn the TV off? If so, Sage would continue streaming the video unless there's a way to program the remote to turn the streaming off at the same time as the TV. But I still think best case would be to stream the live TV to the local machine unless it's being recorded.

QUESTION: Again - LAN Traffic question...what's better having a dedicated server where no one watches TV on that computer and SAGE is rarrely run or using it as a client as well? It seems that if one computer is used as a server and a client then there will be less network traffic since that computer won't stream video out at all. But, more resources will be taken up on that computer for processing and it could be less stable and more prone to crashes. So which is better? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Mike

[Opus4]

how often does one actually "STOP" the sage? Don't most just turn the TV off? If so, Sage would continue streaming the video unless there's a way to program the remote to turn the streaming off at the same time as the TV. But I still think best case would be to stream the live TV to the local machine unless it's being recorded.

It is always being recorded, there is no 'live' option. And, most people would either put SageTV to sleep, or at least use the Stop command while watching live TV, or it will just keep recording since it has no idea that the TV is off. Of course, then there are those of us who just never watch live TV. I sometimes just pause the kids' prerecorded shows until they are allowed to finish watching it later & turn the TV off.

Like just about any other new device you start using, you get used to turning it off when not using it.

QUESTION: Again - LAN Traffic question...what's better having a dedicated server where no one watches TV on that computer and SAGE is rarrely run or using it as a client as well?

I think it depends on what your preference is for how the server gets used. Some people have a fairly large or loud server & want to place it out of the way, then use a quieter and/or smaller client to watch shows. Others just use the server as the main PC for TV viewing.

- Andy

[flavius]

Originally Posted by mike1961

What do you mean by a gigabit back bone? Are you saying you switched your network to a 1 gb rather than 100 mbs?

I don't have a separate gigabit subnet that takes all the traffice initially, but I have my two most recent machines (server and HTPC, both gigabit onboard) sitting behind two gigabit switches. The four APC boxes are 100 Mbit, thus limiting the speed of their operations by virtue of their network interfaces, meaning when I download a movie to my G5 to burn it while my wife is watching foobar, I can't clog the main artery anymore.

Also - worst case scenario could be worse...suppose you have your example where 3 clients are watching pre recorded sage videos and perhaps one or two is also recording say 3 shows at the same time? Also, I will have to test this but 100 mbs is the maximum transfer rate of the hub...reality may be less after processing and other checksum tests.

I would put all tuners in one box, one server. How many shows do you need to record at the same time possibly? More than two? Do you want to record HD content as well? That's a whole different ballgame. I have a different methodology for HD altogether..

QUESTION: Again - LAN Traffic question...what's better having a dedicated server where no one watches TV on that computer and SAGE is rarrely run or using it as a client as well? It seems that if one computer is used as a server and a client then there will be less network traffic since that computer won't stream video out at all. But, more resources will be taken up on that computer for processing and it could be less stable and more prone to crashes. So which is better? Any thoughts on this?

My experience over the past three years or so (BTV and Sage) clearly shows: As soon as you dedicate a server to the task, your uptime improves big time. Don't use the server as a client, if you can. Or play games. You can run other server applications, though: mail server, mp3 streaming around the house, central file repository..

[jominor]

Originally Posted by flavius

My experience over the past three years or so (BTV and Sage) clearly shows: As soon as you dedicate a server to the task, your uptime improves big time. Don't use the server as a client, if you can. Or play games. You can run other server applications, though: mail server, mp3 streaming around the house, central file repository..

That corresponds with my experience. Just in terms of doing stuff on the client alone, *may* mean a restart. I had a problem on the server that caused Sage to lockup almost whenever I used the FF.

That problem has complete gone away when I switched to using a client. My up it pretty much 24/7.

[Menehune]

I concur with Flavius.

I would have problems every two or three weeks when my client would lockup while I was watching a show on the server. I could see the HD light flickering, but the client display on the screen would be frozen and the remote would not work. A majority of the time a sage restart and reboot of the machine would be required. About six weeks ago, I retired a hardly used client and installed that software on my desktop machine. I haven't rebooted the server since. The client has only had one problem since-the movie I was watching suddenly started playing back audio at half-speed. A restart of the client fixed that problem.

I don't know what helped fix the picture freeze problem (probably the slightly more powerful video card in the current client), but I've had no server problems since.