FSE (Full Screen Exclusive) Mode Broke?

[edbmdave]

On my SageTV system (not client). When I launch the UI (SageTV is running as a service) and try to go into full screen with FSE enabled the program just quits. If I turn off FSE, I can then go into full screen.

Anyone else seeing this?

[Kanati]

Originally Posted by edbmdave

On my SageTV system (not client). When I launch the UI (SageTV is running as a service) and try to go into full screen with FSE enabled the program just quits. If I turn off FSE, I can then go into full screen.

Anyone else seeing this?

didn't see THAT particular problem but I did see that when I was in FSE and tried to go back to windows sage would lock up and I'd have to end the process (IF I could get task manager to show that is). I gave up on it.

[Flips]

Originally Posted by edbmdave

When I launch the UI (SageTV is running as a service) and try to go into full screen with FSE enabled the program just quits.

Yep, I had the same thing when I upgraded from the latest beta to v4. Never saw that in any of the betas. I did a restart with Sage set to go to fullscreen on startup and it was fine. So far no problems, but I haven't used v4 for more than about 5 minutes. On the betas I would sometimes I get the error about directx needing to be reinstalled when I play a show (after exiting out of FSE and then going back into FSE), but the restart with Sage going to full screen on windows startup seems to fix that as well.

Hope that helps,
Flips

[Goodspike]

FSE worked different on just about every beta for me (although I did upgrade video drivers in the process too).

It's just problematic on some machines. If you don't have stuttering you probbably don't need it.

[dkardatzke]

Please keep in mind that items like VMR and FSE aren't going to work on everyone's PC. The compatibility varies greatly based on your hardware. This is why we offer the Overlay support to guarantee that your system will work in one form or another with SageTV.

[ukmgranger]

Originally Posted by edbmdave

On my SageTV system (not client). When I launch the UI (SageTV is running as a service) and try to go into full screen with FSE enabled the program just quits. If I turn off FSE, I can then go into full screen.

Anyone else seeing this?

I have exactly the same problem

[edbmdave]

To followup, This feature had been working flawlessly through all the betas, it is only with the 4.0 release I see this behavior.

[night]

what is fse

[Kanati]

FSE == Full Screen Exclusive Mode... Meaning the program takes over the screen entirely just like a game.

[night]

ok, ive just never heard that term before. just full screen. i dont get the exclusive part.

[michelkenny]

Full Screen and Full Screen Exclusive are two different things. Full Screen means that SageTV takes up the whole screen but it shares the display with other programs (so they can popup in front of SageTV). Full Screen Exclusive means that SageTV, and only SageTV has access to the display so nothing else can run in front of it; it has dedicated access to the display. It is used to prevent stuttering by giving SageTV exclusive access to the display. To use FSE mode there is an option somewhere in SageTV that you have to turn on.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by michelkenny

To use FSE mode there is an option somewhere in SageTV that you have to turn on.

Detailed Setup/Advanced.

And if the final release is like the beta, it warns you that it doesn't work with all video cards when you turn it on.

[Kanati]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Detailed Setup/Advanced.

And if the final release is like the beta, it warns you that it doesn't work with all video cards when you turn it on.

Which means to me it's pretty much a kludge in the first place. Opening a directx screen isn't rocket science. They probably had to work around previous programming to get it to work the way it does instead of rewriting their rendering engine.

[gplasky]

I don't think it means it a kludge. I think it means that the requirements are pretty rigid and from other applications like TheaterTek, Zoom Player, etc that also support full screen exclusive you can see it is just not going to work with every PC out there.

Gerry

[michelkenny]

Originally Posted by Kanati

Which means to me it's pretty much a kludge in the first place. Opening a directx screen isn't rocket science. They probably had to work around previous programming to get it to work the way it does instead of rewriting their rendering engine.

It is not a kludge. There are so many combinations of hardware that sometimes things just don't work right with a particular configuration. They are just stating this so that user's don't think "Oh, FSE mode doesn't work, SageTV sucks!". FSE mode isn't the only thing that doesn't work on some particular hardware configurations...

[Kanati]

How many games do you know that give you that warning? I can think of none. And nearly all games use a locked screen just like FSE. I'm not faulting sage really if they didn't plan for that from the beginning and wrote their rendering engine without taking that into account... Then added it after the fact in hopes it would fix a stuttering issue a minority of people were experiencing then I wouldn't have went back and rewrote large chunks of the rendering engine either. But I have a hard time believing it's just an issue that you have to throw up your hands and say "sorry, some hardware it just won't work on."

I could throw together a program that opens an FSE screen and plays a video on and I'd bet you that it would play on every sage box we have out there right now.

The fact that FSE doesn't work on a significant number of machines here would indicate something other than just "hardware configurations" because if game programmers were held to the same (for lack of a better word, and not really used correctly here) standard, and had a problem with as many systems as sage does, there'd be a lot less game publishers out there as they'd have been driven out of business.

With sage, there are alternative rendering options so it's really not that big of a deal, but to dismiss the FSE not working issue as being "just how it is" is just sweeping it under the rug instead of addressing it directly.

[gplasky]

I don't know about that. I look at these requirements for F.E.A.R.:
Windows® XP, x64 or 2000 with latest service pack installed; DirectX® 9.0c (August Edition) or higher; Pentium® 4 1.7 GHz or equivalent processor; 512 MB of RAM or more; 64 MB GeForce™ 4 Ti or Radeon® 9000 video card; Monitor that can display in 4:3 aspect ratio; 5.0 GB free Hard Drive Space for installation; Additional hard drive space for a swap file and saved game files; DVD-ROM drive; 16-bit DirectX® 9.0 compliant sound card with support for EAX™ 2.0; Broadband or LAN connection for multiplayer games; Mouse; Keyboard

They may not give you that warning but they sure spell out some hefty requirements to run the game.

Oh-And I'll take that bet for you writing a FSE program that plays a mpeg2 video on every Sage box. TheaterTek and Zoom Player can't do it either.

Gerry

[michelkenny]

Kanati, I agree with your point. While it's true that games usually don't have a problem, usually people who play full-screen games have powerful enough video cards that won't have a problem with FSE mode, and those video cards should work with FSE in SageTV. It's those GeForce MX 440 cards (and the like) that may have a problem with FSE mode. That or maybe there are technical issues for media players... who knows. I'm just saying stuff

[salsbst]

Not a lot of games work in Overlay, VMR and VMR FSE modes in Windows, plus work in Linux all from the same code base, and have API level support for custom renderers like the 350, the XCard, etc, etc.

I don't think the level of information that is available to SageTV's customers is sufficient to conclude that anything is a kludge or was poorly designed -- especially in the face of all of the modularity and APIs that SageTV exposes.

[Kanati]

Like I said... I'm not faulting them for it. I don't think it was in their original design plan and adding something like that after the fact without a major rewrite could be sticky at best. I just don't think some people are looking at it in the same way.

F.E.A.R. requirements aren't really a good comparison as that's a top of the line game and it's requirements are huge because it's using technology that's nowhere near what we are pushing with sage. I *will* say that if you have any of the codec megapacks on your machine the game will crash a horrible death. That was a problem with their other games as well... No One Lives Forever and it's sequel.

And for that bet... It'll still need a mpeg2 codec installed... That's not something that can be worked around, but I might be able to toss something out in short order along with a test mpeg2 file. I doubt people will run it just to test with though. And besides, it's not fair as salsbst states because I certainly won't use java, which eliminates compatibility with linux... and while I might use VMR9 just to pick the one that seems to have the most issues with sage, it'll just be one of the few combos that can be chosen with sage. There's a lot of variables in sage that wouldn't be in my little test (which probably would just be a cut down version of my media player I already have mostly finished). But it almost certainly would work on low end hardware, in windows, with directx 7 or greater.