New HDTV in the near future-questions!

[JUC]

thanks for all the responses. I looked into DLP's and I guess I was incorrect in my initial assumption--and yes they are cheaper!! Might be an option. Unfortunately, Dish is out of the question because I can't get a signal where I live (apparently their satellites are lower in the sky that DTV). I am really not sure where to go from here. I can "afford" a 32" HDTV LCD, a 42" EDTV Plasma, or a 50-52" DLP. The Plasma's/LCD's look so much nicer that it may be worth it---a 42" EDTV Plasma is so tempting....If I can get the wife on board, the DLP would probably be the 'Best' choice with the HDTV support and all but....ahhhhh!

well, please chime in if you have any comments/suggestions. Thanks for the help and I have been lurking around AVS forums and there is a wealth of info there--but how this all works out with Sage is very important to me.
JUC

[Naylia]

Originally Posted by night

and plasma is a limited life and can burn in

This problem has largely been alleviated over the last couple generations of plasma technology. Panasonic plasmas are now on their 8th generation of displays. The half-life of the displays are 60,000 hours, the same as Sharp LCD displays. Burn-in seems to be a thing of the past also, people are actually trying to burn stuff in lately and I have not heard of anyone who has a current generation panel actually complaining of burn in. However there are some recommendations on how to treat your panel for the first 100 hours, then the next 900 hours on what to watch (some folks actually just loop full screen video at night to burn through this settling phase). Apparently after the first thousand hours of use burn-in is significantly less likely to happen. There's a nice faq over at avs forums. But back to the topic at hand...

Some personal recommendations from my current HDTV research as I am also shopping around to buy this winter season.

Sony 42EA10 - a 42" LCD Rear Projection unit, it's slim but not wall mountable with an MSRP of $1999, native res. 1280x720 (has VGA in but apparently underscans so component or DVI/HDMI is the way to go)

Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK - a commercial 50" Plasma display w/ 1366x768 resolution. MSRP $3995, can be found at reputable online dealers for under $3k. Since it is a commercial version it does not include cable card support or an OTA tuner. However you can buy them as add on modules...you can buy all sorts of add ons and swap them in an out for whatever configuration you want. They even offer a 900 Mhz add on pc that you can use put in the slots. Every input imaginable can be purchased as an addon, so lets say you want 2 component and an s-video today, well in the future if you wanted 3 hdmi, you could just buy the blades with the inputs and swap them in/out. The bezel on the commercial plasmas is quite plain, but I think I actually like that, also you need to buy a stand. Apparently a good place to snag them is ebay.

Right now, I'm just saving cash with a target of the Sony E42A10, but if I get to that point and the plasmas have continued to fall in price, I may reassess and consider going for the plasma. Samsung DLPs are another good option, but I think I prefer the Sony to the Sammys in this case, but many folks have the reverse opinion.

[JUC]

paulbeers, I didn't see your post until I wrote the previous one. I UNDERSTAND what you are saying...BUT---if all programming will be in HD in 5 years, I should be able to buy another TV in 5 years that takes advantage of it. The practical me is saying buy a 32" LCD or bigger DLP. I know if I get the 32" i will be upset i didn't go for a bigger screen. If I go DLP, I konw I will be upset because I didn't get a 'thin' tv. If I go EDTV I will be Completely happy now, but not in a few years. If money wans't an issue I would just get a 42" HD Plasma but I can't swing it now. I guess I could wait a little bit longer and save.
JUC

[Naylia]

Saving is not a bad idea since you don't really have massive amounts of content that you're dying to watch, 6 months might net you quite a bit more tv for your money and quite a bit more money in your pocket to spend too. It may also see the advent of HD disc players of some sort, HD video game systems, and maybe some more/other HD content available in your area whether OTA, cable, or satellite.

[paulbeers]

JUC -

Just so you know, I wasn't saying that just for your info, it was for everyone. Trying to nip a lot of repetitive banter in the butt. The "stuff" that seems to go round and round.

I would agree with Naylia. Either go for the Sony 42EA10 (it is beautiful and I have 2 friends with one, If I had to do it all over that would be my choice) or I would hold off and save your cash until you can get everything you wanted. I wanted to buy an HDTV for a long time and I finally did about 6 months ago, but it depresses the heck out of me when I open up the Best Buy ad and see the television I bought in May now 400 bucks cheaper. It was a good 6 months tho!!

If you really want a plasma/LCD, and feel you can't swing HDTV right now, I would wait. You will be happy you did down the line. I don't think any of us can say without a doubt it will be 5 years before you can get significant HDTV or if it will be next year. I will say this, after I bought my HDTV ready television, I told my wife I wouldn't need HDTV capabilities for some time (meaning no HDTV cable or an HDTV OTA receiver), oh but guess how quickly that changed?!?!?!

Just my two cents worth. I sooo wanted a plasma when I went looking for TV's, and I almost bought an EDTV, and it was the best move I made going for a CRT projection w/ 1080i rather than that plasma EDTV. I am sooo happy with my choice going for HDTV over the plasma that I just feel super strong about choice.

[Naylia]

A belief I've held is that tv and stereo equipment (for most people) are long term investments. I mean do you really replace your tv (at a few grand a pop) every three to five years. I don't know anyone personally who replaces tv or stereo equipment that often. What happens is that instead, you may buy a new "big screen" for the family room, the family room tv then moves to the den, the bedroom, or the basement, worst case it gets sold to a buddy, and that old 1980s 27" tv your kids use in the play room for their gamecube finally gets replaced and the 25 year old tv gets thrown out.

So...even should you get the urge to buy another tv in 5 years, and all tv is digital with alot more HD content, well then you'll probably just take the tv you bought today and migrate it elsewhere in your home. So instead of settling on your new tv, make sure it's something that you'll want to use for a longwhile to come. Especially if you're going flat panel because I'm sure you'll be able to find somewhere else to hang it when it's time to upgrade the home theateer. I mean doesn't every bathroom need a plasma display i'm sure you'll find some use for it.

[Kanati]

JUC... If you go DLP... Make sure that you and everyone that will be watching the tv go and check it out on the showroom floor before you purchase it.

There's a "rainbow" effect that happens on the DLPs. The one I have has a 7 or 8 section (IIRC) wheel that spins at about 9000rpm and on areas of the screen with bright spots (say a candle is burning in a low lit room) if you move your eyes from one part of the screen to another you will see a tiny flash of rainbow. Some people never see this. A small percentage will see it but it won't bother them. And a smaller percentage will see it and it will drive them totally bonkers. If you and your family are ones that don't see it... It's a good choice. If you do, you might want to look at something else.

Personally, I see the rainbow effect. When I first got the tv I saw it all the time. The more I watch it though the less I see it... And most of the time I have to actively force the issue to see it. So it's one of those things that your eyes just adjust to over time most likely. But it IS a known issue with the DLP systems. There are some newer systems that are attempting to eliminate this effect by spinning the wheel faster, or going with a more segmented wheel, but they haven't gotten rid of it yet.

Depth of the DLP? Eh... it's at least a foot to foot and a half thinner than the 65" Mitsubishi CRT I had before this. But it's certainly not as thin as an LCD or plasma. Just depends on how big your room is I guess.

[JUC]

thanks all, I am now leaning towards a HDTV plasma-thanks to everyone here and after a lenghty fight with my common sense--think I'll save a little more and maybe spend around $2500 (not much but in a few months I should be able to find a nice 42" HDTV Plasma for that price).
JUC

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by blade

You guys must be far pickier than I am. I have a 57" hitachi HDTV and SD content doesn't look all that bad on it to me.

A lot of it is expectations, lots of people don't really know what SDTV looks like, they've seen it on small (<40") SDTVs which mask most problems, that when they get a good HDTV, they are surprised by what SDTV looks like. Plus the source matters a lot, ie I've seen horrid analog cable, but then there's DVD (also SD) and it looks fantastic.

Originally Posted by JUC

I know if I get the 32" i will be upset i didn't go for a bigger screen. If I go DLP, I konw I will be upset because I didn't get a 'thin' tv. If I go EDTV I will be Completely happy now, but not in a few years.

OK, you're getting crap for this one . I can understand point 1, but really, is a "thin" or "flat" TV that important? DLP RPTVs (LCD RPTVs also) are "thin" they're generally under 12" deep, some are <10". Is it really that important to have a "flat" TV? Do you have a reason that you need a flat TV or is it just for the "cool" factor?

And as for your last point, remember what I said above, the bigger you go, the more pixels/lines you need. Long before HDTV was out, the higher end CRT RP HDTVs had "line doublers", what we would call scalers, they were basically 960i TVs, because 480i isn't enough for anything much over 30".

There may not be a great deal of native HD content, but SD content, properly deinterlaced and scaled (especially DVDs) can look spectacular on a large HDTV, good enough that many might mistake it for HD.

Oh, and one more thing, where and how will you be using this TV? Because there's another option you haven't considered yet, Front Projection

[Naylia]

well now we're back to an issue i mentioned earlier All 42" plasmas have rectangular pixels, so to get the best picture you send 1024x768, but it stretches everything a little bit. An option is to use 1368x768 and just have it scale for you on the horizontal access, it's just not quite as good as the 1:1 pixel mapping.

So the solution is an HDTV 50" plasma which is a 1366x768 display and you can get perfect 1:1 pixel mapping with square pixels.

The good news is that in a few months you can probably snag a commercial plasma in the mid $2k range at the 50" size, and if you don't want to wait and the above is acceptatble to you, you can snag a 42" plasma today....

Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK - $2075

for an extra 300 bucks you can get it with OTA tuner and stand included in the consumer version. TVAuthority has a 9.1 reseller rating on resellerratings.com and a number of people at AVS Forums recount good experiences with them...that 42" would be the tv of choice for me if it weren't for the rectangular pixels, because it's a pretty sweet deal, especially because that is the latest model, very reasonable in my opinion

[lovingHDTV]

Yes, front projection!

I love my pj and use it exclusively for SageTV. The image is not in the league of HDTV, but with Dscaler doing the deinterlacing it is very watchable. Much better than many of the "big" screen RPTVs I've seen.

You ambient light can be a problem.

[esubramanian]

Originally Posted by Kanati

I was looking at those and decided against it because of the premium price and because they are 1080p capable but right now they just upscale (or deinterlace)... They can't actually accept a 1080p signal (not that there's any 1080p content out there yet any way.)

Can you tell a significant difference between regular 1080i and the deinterlaced 1080p?

I have to say that I don't see lot of difference between the two. The differences that I see may be due to source. Since the samsung accepts 1080p over VGA, I played some WMD 1080p clips and they look absolutely stunning! My CPU is pegged while I watch them though!

[churcj2]

For quality and if your screen size requirements 36" or less, HDTV capable crt TVs are still king for overall quality.

I've been doing a bit of investigation (so this isn't exactly first hand experience, but I believe it to be quite reliable), and apparently Sony makes a good 34" CRT that is considered a reference TV in terms of being compared against for quality by all other CRT TVs. CRT tvs are better in terms of picture quality than LCD or Plasma.

I believe the sony brand even does well with cable and ant. singles, but as others mentioned displaying STV on an HDTV device does present some challenges.

[Kanati]

42" plasma then.

Take a look at the Dell 42" plasma... (note that they have an ED and HD 42" plasma so don't get fooled)... I think it's in your price range and it got some really good reviews.

[JUC]

thanks all, well--stanger, in terms of 'thin' its more the WAF then anything. Most of the DLP's i have seen were more of 14" or so. I have a nice little bumpout in my house that will fit a Plasma or LCD perfectly and the DLPs would stick out a little too much. Basically, what if the wife puts a condition on my purchase i will obey (hey, she's letting me get one anyway so i am not going to complain...and I'm a newlywed so I need to pick my fights...).

Front projection is out of the question for now because this will be my main TV in the living room. I do plan on getting a projector down the road once I finish off my basement in the spring though.

Naylia, I am actually looking at the Panasonic. They have gotten great reviews and I have heard their prices are going to drop a bit once their new manufacturing plant comes on line this fall. I haven't heard much about the dells though so I am really leaning towards the Pany. So, I think I will wait a few months--maybe christmas time for the sales and go with a 42" HD plasma--maybe 50" but I doubt the prices will come down enough for me to afford that one. Unfortunately, OTA is out of the question for me...no signal in the boonies!

BTW--and this opens up a whole new can of worms, what is everyone doing for satellite HD content? just using a STB without sage?
Thanks all, very informative and worthwhile discussion...
JUC

[Kanati]

what is everyone doing for satellite HD content? just using a STB without sage?

Yep. I have two dish boxes set up on my dlp with the SD box being handled exclusively by sage. The HD capable box I use for channel surfing and HD content.

[JUC]

that's what i thought--but the idea of giving up the PVR functions on HD content is upsetting....and HD PVR's are quite expensive these days
JUC

[Kanati]

I think dish wanted an extra 100 dollars for an HD pvr when I was getting installed... I told em I didn't need it that bad.

The only way I'd want a PVR that does HD is if I could easily get the files off the stb and into my computer for recompression to divx (or HD-DiVX when players will handle that).

[Toddly]

I bought and returned a 42" Sony RPT this weekend because the picture quality of Sage and my SD cable was very poor. I now have a 32" LCD and while the picture is much better I have not fully decided on whether it is worth the cost. We use Sage all the time and if the picture quality is not as good as what I had before then I am going to return this LCD as well. I would make sure that you find a retailer with a good return policy if you decide to purchase a HDTV.

[salsbst]

I watch SDTV at 1776x1000i on a 32" (4x3) CRT. It sure looks a heck of a lot better than 480i on a 30" CRT!!!

Sure, if the source resolution were greater then it would look better, but the computer does a great job of upscaling SDTV.