Some OTA ATSC programming has very low pitch audio. What's wrong?!

[mkanet]

I'm not sure what's going on, but for some reason there is some ATSC programming which the audio is very low pitch.

Has anyone experienced this before?

[mkanet]

Okay, why is it that every weird glitch I see in sageTV 3.0.x that has to do with HDTV does NOT occur in DIVCO's free app or Windows MCE? I'll wait until the next SageTV 3.0.x beta. If the developers STILL haven't gotten HDTV reasonably dependable with the popular Fusion 5 Lite after 3 beta releases, I'll be forced to switch to something that's already rock solid and dependable.

It's getting too close to the new TV season for me to be fussing with undependable HDTV software.

Okay, I'm done ranting

[Opus4]

You do realize v3 is a _beta_ program, right? If you aren't willing to run into glitches as you test new things, running a beta version of anything isn't a good idea. The whole point of the beta is to find problems so that they can be corrected.

And, I believe that I mentioned previously that the Fusion 5 Lite isn't even on the list of cards supported in the beta yet, so I wouldn't expect something to work properly when that card hadn't even been through internal testing when the last beta version was released.

- Andy

[mkanet]

Andy, yes, I undestand it's beta and Fusion 5 lite isn't mentioned as one of the HDTV cards that it's been tested with.

However, I also have to consider that SageTV 3.0.x beta has been out for several weeks and a few public releases with still no solid support for arguably the most popular "new" HDTV BDA card out. I wouldn't have complained if I was using some rare USB BDA ATSC tuner....

Anyway, I will be quiet and sit tight for the next release... Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I know everyone here loves this software and has fun with it regardless of beta issues.

[DFA]

As a volunteer beta tester, it is the job to find bugs and report them. The forum is helpful to confirm they are bugs and not cockpit or configuration errors.

How many cycles it takes to get it right, well that can be argued but not to much purpose.

As I understand it, the first few releases of MCE were very much less than exciting. MS usually gets things wrong more than once in the beginning but ultimately produces something of value with time. Considering the mind boggling resources that MS has, it seems they should do better than that at the outset. Compare this to the resources of SageTV and decide who is more worthy of patience.

I have been through the 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 beta cycles. Due to wife sensitivity, I have tried to find middle ground. I sat out of 2.1 until final release but found some minor acknowledged bugs that I would have reported. So, with 2.2 and 3.0 cycles I entered into the beta at a point where I think things might be hardening and mostly transparent problems to my better half. This is also a process of looking after your interests.

The jump into HD land with multiple cards is not trivial. I suspect 3.0 may have a longer beta run than previous Sage versions so will take more patience. Most of us would like to see more frequent point releases even if Sage knows there is more on the punch list yet to address.

Stay cool and remember that you are a tester at this point in time.

DFA

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Okay, why is it that every weird glitch I see in sageTV 3.0.x that has to do with HDTV does NOT occur in DIVCO's free app or Windows MCE? I'll wait until the next SageTV 3.0.x beta. If the developers STILL haven't gotten HDTV reasonably dependable with the popular Fusion 5 Lite after 3 beta releases, I'll be forced to switch to something that's already rock solid and dependable.

It's getting too close to the new TV season for me to be fussing with undependable HDTV software.

Okay, I'm done ranting

You must be having MUCH better luck than most people with the Dvico software. I've tried both OTA, and QAM and the software is simply JUNK!!! Run the channel scan 5 times and get 5 different sets of channels found. Missing one on the first scan, finds it on the 2nd scan but misses one that it found the first time. I'm not talking about fringe channels either, these are channels with 85% or better signal strength for OTA and 95% + on QAM.
Lockups, freezes, error popups, the fact that the software won't even work marginally if you've got hyper threading turned on. Oh and don't even get me started about the trouble between the card/mobo/windows and trying to get it on it's own IRQ and not sharing an IRQ with something that will cause spotty reliability.

I've had my card for over a month and other than a few test recordings, wihch do look gorgeous!, I haven't dared to trust it to record anything that I need to watch.

Personally I'll trust SageTV and/or the 3rd party SageTv geniuses to get it working WELL before Dvico will.

[agover]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

You must be having MUCH better luck than most people with the Dvico software. I've tried both OTA, and QAM and the software is simply JUNK!!! Run the channel scan 5 times and get 5 different sets of channels found. Missing one on the first scan, finds it on the 2nd scan but misses one that it found the first time. I'm not talking about fringe channels either, these are channels with 85% or better signal strength for OTA and 95% + on QAM.
Lockups, freezes, error popups, the fact that the software won't even work marginally if you've got hyper threading turned on. Oh and don't even get me started about the trouble between the card/mobo/windows and trying to get it on it's own IRQ and not sharing an IRQ with something that will cause spotty reliability.

I've had my card for over a month and other than a few test recordings, wihch do look gorgeous!, I haven't dared to trust it to record anything that I need to watch.

Personally I'll trust SageTV and/or the 3rd party SageTv geniuses to get it working WELL before Dvico will.

You must be running different software to me then - Ive got the fusion 5 gold plus and while the software from dvico isnt great (*cough*) it does work for the most part. As long as you dont try to get the guide to work - then its slow as hell.

I do agree with the person who stated that Frey seems to be ignoring all of dvicos cards though. And he's right these cards are arguably the most popular ones in recent time.

Sage barely functions at all with Dvico cards though. It cant change channels (inleast for me), it crashes unless I use an alternate mpeg2 video decoder (ie I cant use Sage's - I have to switch or it immediately crashes). Its still pretty jumpy video wise also. (oh and yes I am reporting these to frey - but as its so unstable I only run it as a trial for a little bit because it causes problems for my SD tuner)

Yes Andy its beta - I get it. What Im saying is that they need to add support for this line of cards, and fix the channel changing issue.

[DFA]

I would not necessarily put Divco over and above all else. More recent purchases seem at least closely or equally aimed at Avermedia A180 according to a few of the polls.

For myself, I ordered a A180 this Friday.

Should Divco cards be supported? Ofcourse. Give it time for the bugs to iron out. Lord knows Divco took more than a little time to get their software to what it is now and still debatable as to prime-time status.

DFA

[mkanet]

FYI, I'm using DIVCO's latest Hybrid 3.1 Beta 2 which came out yesterday. It works much better than any of the previous releases; although, I don't use it for QAM. If it wasn't for the DIVCO software working correctly for me, I would have thought that maybe there was something wrong with my system.

I may still switch to MCE for my living room and make a toy Sagetv 3 workstation for fun. I enjoy customizing SageTV just as much as anyone else. here

I'm still not too sure what SageTV 3 has to offer more than MCE if I don't use SageTV server/client. So, basically I would be waiting patiently "hoping" for it to work like MCE. So, having both for different purposes would give me best of both worlds!

PS: The reason some people choose Fusion 5 Lite over Avertmedia A180 is the 5th generation ATSC tuner used in the Fusion for better reception (under certain circumstances).

[Kingjamez]

I don't know how you guys have your systems setup. But my 3.0.7 with a Fusion 3 card (currently a SUPPORTED card) works very well. I can change channels, recorded well, and I get very smooth playback with very little CPU use. The Fusion 5 card isn't listed as supported yet, and you rip Sage a new one becuase it doesn't work.... that doesn't make sense to me.

-Jim

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by agover

You must be running different software to me then - Ive got the fusion 5 gold plus and while the software from dvico isnt great (*cough*) it does work for the most part. As long as you dont try to get the guide to work - then its slow as hell.

I've tried every version of the software from what came with my Fusion5 Gold Plus to all the open releases on their website and some from an internal link to Dvico's development area. All the versions I tried from that internal link were complete crap and obviously software they were trying things with. All the problem areas I had were as bad or worse.
I never did get the Hybrid beta. By the time I saw that link over on the AV Science Forums the link no longer worked. Apparently they weren't supposed to be available and they were pulled off.

My first problem with my Fusion5 was that I had HyperThreading turned on and the software was completely unusable with that turned on which is a known condition.
So I turned off HT and the Dvico stock software became useable but with the notations I made in my message about innacurate channel scans, frequent error popups, lockups, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT support for it in SageTV, and when the card does work it's very impressive. It's just nowhere near stable enough to trust it to record anything I *must see*.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Kingjamez

I don't know how you guys have your systems setup. But my 3.0.7 with a Fusion 3 card (currently a SUPPORTED card) works very well. I can change channels, recorded well, and I get very smooth playback with very little CPU use. The Fusion 5 card isn't listed as supported yet, and you rip Sage a new one becuase it doesn't work.... that doesn't make sense to me.

-Jim

Jim,
What decoder are you using with the Fusion3? Just curious because in Sage the only decoder I'm seeing is the Sage decoder. Strange because in V2.x I was seeing several options, but since installing the Beta all I see is the Sage decoder. <shrug>

[mkanet]

Waynedunham, are you having these issues even when you put an absolutely clean install of both divico app/driver and sageTV? As far as i know there isn't any issues reported about hyperthreading. That's actually a pretty common feature now-a-days; mine has always been set to on.

I noticed some issues dissapeared when I did a total clean install of the latest software from both.

I don't have a channel changing issue. However, I do have the following reproducable problems on a totally clean machine:

1) SageTV service crashes complaining about "psisdecd.dll" when I have 2 Fusion 5 Lites enable and trying to use both under various circumstances. When I hit "Okay" on the crash, it then blue screens my machine complaing about the zulutscap driver.

2) .TS files produced in sagetv 3.0.x are NOT playable outside sageTV. .ts files produced on the same machine, but wth the DIVCO software are playable in any software.

3) Some ATSC programs play the video slightly slower than normal and since the audio is synched with the video, the audio has a low pitch to it. Again, this doesn't occur in the DIVCO app recording the same channels

4) Two major OTA ATSC channels broadcasted in San Francisco Bay Area cannot be tuned in. DIVCO software has no problem tuning in these two sub channels on the same machine.

Originally Posted by waynedunham

I've tried every version of the software from what came with my Fusion5 Gold Plus to all the open releases on their website and some from an internal link to Dvico's development area. All the versions I tried from that internal link were complete crap and obviously software they were trying things with. All the problem areas I had were as bad or worse.
I never did get the Hybrid beta. By the time I saw that link over on the AV Science Forums the link no longer worked. Apparently they weren't supposed to be available and they were pulled off.

My first problem with my Fusion5 was that I had HyperThreading turned on and the software was completely unusable with that turned on which is a known condition.
So I turned off HT and the Dvico stock software became useable but with the notations I made in my message about innacurate channel scans, frequent error popups, lockups, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT support for it in SageTV, and when the card does work it's very impressive. It's just nowhere near stable enough to trust it to record anything I *must see*.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Waynedunham, are you having these issues even when you put an absolutely clean install of both divico app/driver and sageTV? As far as i know there isn't any issues reported about hyperthreading. That's actually a pretty common feature now-a-days; mine has always been set to on.

I noticed some issues dissapeared when I did a total clean install of the latest software from both.

I don't have a channel changing issue. However, I do have the following reproducable problems on a totally clean machine:

1) SageTV service crashes complaining about "psisdecd.dll" when I have 2 Fusion 5 Lites enable and trying to use both under various circumstances. When I hit "Okay" on the crash, it then blue screens my machine complaing about the zulutscap driver.

2) .TS files produced in sagetv 3.0.x are NOT playable outside sageTV. .ts files produced on the same machine, but wth the DIVCO software are playable in any software.

3) Some ATSC programs play the video slightly slower than normal and since the audio is synched with the video, the audio has a low pitch to it. Again, this doesn't occur in the DIVCO app recording the same channels

4) Two major OTA ATSC channels broadcasted in San Francisco Bay Area cannot be tuned in. DIVCO software has no problem tuning in these two sub channels on the same machine.

I haven't done much trying to get it to work within SageTV other than prelim tests. Actually this morning I got a preview screen when I went to add the tuner into Sage. That's the first time I got a preview screen.

I saw mention of it not working with HT turned on over on AVS. I was seeing the symptoms so I turned HT off and most of those problems went away.
I just did a search on DVICO's FAQ page and it looks like it is prevelant on ATI cards, which I have. You have to go into the Acceleration Tab of the video card settings and turn off write combining. Won't get a chance to see if that works until I can shut down Sage (recording right now) since that change requires a reboot to take effect.
I'm hoping that will work, but of course at the end of that "fix" there's a caveat saying if that doesn't work then shut off HT.

The times I did try to record using the Fusion 5 Gold with SageTV every time I tried to use the DVICO software after that I'd get an error popup every time I tried to call up the config box. Maybe it's like the Hauppauge's where once you assign it as a tuner in SageTV you can't use the original software unless you shut Sage down? (most likely)

Clean installs of the Dvico software, many of them every time I try one of the new versions. I'm on the released version from the Dvico website right now since that one seems the best of those I've tried.
My Sage Beta was installed over my 2.28 SageTv install. I'm not using Service Mode, and have a Sage Client installed on the same machine to use with my SageMVP.
Again, most of the problems I reported are with the Dvico software, not Sage and the Fusion. I have not even been able to play anything recorded in Sage through the Dvico. ABSOLUTELY unplayable with SEVERE start/stop/stutter, and no sound.

Agover mentioned problems when trying to get the guide to work. I forgot to ask him, but that would imply that he may have actually got it to work at all. That's something I have never gotten to work AT ALL.

[Kingjamez]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

Jim,
What decoder are you using with the Fusion3? Just curious because in Sage the only decoder I'm seeing is the Sage decoder. Strange because in V2.x I was seeing several options, but since installing the Beta all I see is the Sage decoder. <shrug>

I'm using the NVidia Pure Video Decoders, if I use the stock Sage decoders it crashes every time.

What kind of antenna do you have hooked up to your Fusion card? I get extremely consistant results with the Dvico software. Are you signals fluctuating in the signal strength applet that Dvico provides?

-Jim

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Kingjamez

I'm using the NVidia Pure Video Decoders, if I use the stock Sage decoders it crashes every time.

What kind of antenna do you have hooked up to your Fusion card? I get extremely consistant results with the Dvico software. Are you signals fluctuating in the signal strength applet that Dvico provides?

-Jim

I'm really hoping for QAM support because I live in a black hole for antenna reception for either radio or television. I can get 3 HD channels with over 75% signal strength here with the tabletop antenna I have. The strength is pretty consistent, but does fluctuate and sometimes drops down to where it can't lock on with one of the channels.
In order to get up over the hills surrounding my house (all within 1/4 mile) I'd need about a 100' tower.

[salsbst]

I'm really hoping for QAM support

Me, too. If QAM doesn't show up soon, then I may consider a switch to MythTV, unless SageTV opens up access to its Linux version for customers who wish to use existing hardware.

[mkanet]

I've been regularly checking the DIVCO password protected FTP site for updates. They look like they have been working closely with MS with updated drivers intended for the MCE 2005 "Emerald" update due VERY soon.

It doesnt make sense for DIVCO to update their "already" certified MCE 2005 drivers unless they are planning on adding new features. I wouldn't be surprised if the Emerald update will support QAM for digital cable. There's certainly a lot of talk about QAM/MCE/Emerald on TheGreenButton Forum.

[batorok]

as far as the original question (man did this get OT) low volumes for atsc are also a problem with MCE (I have both), check the faq over in the hdtv section of thegreenbutton.com forums. I think it has to do with analog audion vs. dolby digital- a dvd will also have low volume, but we're not switching from analog tv to dvd with one button push, so it's less likely to be bothersome. This might be solvable with some hacking around, or with buying a higher end audio decoder than I have...
I have yet to see if Sage does this for me as I'm not beta testing until I see subchannel support in the tvguide, otherwise for my limited tv watching purposes, mce is adequate...

[eobiont]

I have this problem and solved it in this way.

I use ffdshow with the opensource AC3 filter that is pretty ubiquitous.

I set the ffdshow ausio filter to normalize the audio. This pumps up the volume on soft channels and lowers it on others. In this way I can flip between SD and HD without blowing out my ears.

I record HD over firewire from an STB and record SD via a Hauppauge 150 Svideo and audio line in from same STB.