Quality issues with PVR-500's

[m0ng00se30]

Just thought I'd throw this in...

I just installed a 500 today reaplcing 2 - 250s, and I am NOT seeing any crosshatching at all. The quality I'm seeing it TONS better than my old 250s that I removed.

I'm using a Cable source and a S-Vid source.

2.0.24.23025 drivers from shspvr.

--Mike

[mkelly4ca]

Originally Posted by mkelly4ca

Although it will support only one tuner, for a test, install the PVR 150 driver update:
http://hauppauge.lightpath.net/softw...0_22_23257.exe

WinTV 2000 application:
http://hauppauge.lightpath.net/softw...k_47_23045.exe

and MPEG decoders:
http://hauppauge.lightpath.net/softw...r/hcwsmd05.exe

See if the same problem occurs in the WinTV 2000 application as well, which if this is the case, would indicate a hardware issue with the board.

I tried this today, and the crosshatching is still there. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the replacement board.

BTW all this time I've been using the S-video inputs on both tuners. I've been meaning to see what happens if I switch to composite....

[aperry]

For what it's worth, the problems I am encountering are using the coax input.

I think that Hauppauge put out some defective boards (and/or their drivers need some work). Anyhow, I'm going to try the same stuff and see if I have problems. If I do, and like they say, if it happens in WinTV 2000 as well, then I'll be contacting them about replacement board(s).

[Polypro]

I've just tested with drivers from 1/05, 3/05, and the latest. All had the same characteristics: Some channels show them to varying degrees, but most do not. I'm running NVIDIA Decoders w/ Hardware Accel/Automatic/Pixel Adaptive/VMR9 and Forceware 81.87 with a Gigabyte passive card and using analog cable. TV is a Viewsonic 27" LCD (N2750W). I've included 2 screenshots: 1 is from my worst quality channel, WHPX (PAX/Independant) that is bad. The other is from TNT with no diagonal lines. I don't know if the board is at fault or not. Could it be a signal quality thing? There's an adapter that HTPCNews mentioned when they test cards that allows them to run S/Vid or Composite into the coax...that would be a good test...if it shows them from a DVD Player or Sat/Cable Box through coax. Sat boxes can run coax though can't they? That would be something to try.

P

[mkelly4ca]

I tried the 2.6, 2.7 and 2.9 drivers on both s-video and composite - same results every time. I've asked Hauppauge for an RFW.

[White94Cobra]

Polypro... that is the exact crosshatch problem that I have. Unfortunately I also have the flashing brightness problem as well. I think my cards are over a year old, so I doubt a swap is feasible.

[aperry]

The cards have a two year warranty if I'm not mistaken...

[mkelly4ca]

I had another PVR-500 that I had returned to Hauppauge before discovering the crosshatching problems with this card. I received the replacement card from Hauppauge and swapped out the existing card with the new one. It had exactly the same problems.

I put the old card into my other machine, and the crosshatching was gone! So now I've set up the other machine as the Sage server with both PVR-500's, and all four tuners are producing quality recordings.

I don't know what it is about my primary computer. Some sort of interference from the motherboard I guess.

See my machine specs below.

[Polypro]

So that rules out the PVR500. There's another thread about using ffdshow with SDTV...he had lines also, that ffdshow cleaned up. I agree that it's the signal quality from the feed and specific channel. Maybe Hauppauge is just great at receiving the signal. Maybe splitters knocking down the db helps...I don't know. I don't think it's Hauppauge.

P

[kattman]

I've recently purchased the 500 and I am not impressed at all. The picture that my cable box provides is FAR superior to the picture quality of the tuner card. The tuner card provides a more blurry picture and lines that are at a slight angle to the horizon appear very jagged and I've also seen the barber shop lines too. I've tried different video decoders (Sage's, nVIDIA's, CyberLink's); I've tried different PVR programs (SageTV, Meedio, BeyondTV); I've tried maxing out every quality setting on my video graphics card; I've tried putting the tuner card in different computers; I've tried eliminating splitters; I've tried S-Video, Composite and Coaxial; I've emailed Hauppauge and tried their suggestions. The simple fact is that this TV tuner card will NEVER provide the superior picture quality of my cable box. What a hunk of cr@p!!! I spent $1500 building a PVR computer only to be completly let down by the most important part of a PVR...the tuner card.

[mkelly4ca]

No, it will never equal the quality of the original source signal. That signal is being compressed, even at the maximum quality settings, and there will be visible compression artifacts.

Are you viewing it on your PC? It will look much better viewed on a TV.

[enthilzha]

All - I recently rebuilt my primary PC into an HTPC:
Shuttle SN41G2 V3 case/nforce2 motherboard
AthlonXP 2600+
1GB Corsair XMS PC2700
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro + Vantec iCEBERG4
Haup PVR 500 MCE with Sept drivers
WD 120GB/8MB/7200RM
WinXP Pro SP2
SageTV 4.1

I got Sage up and running no problem but noticed the picture quality on my PVR-500 from both tuners was horibble. I was running off the coax going right into the PVR-500 (no splitters). I have the diagonal line (barbershop) interference on EVERY CHANNEL all of the time (live & recorded)! I've done a ton of troubleshooting afer reading this thread. I'm fairly confident the issue is some type of EMI/RFI interference although I haven't pinned down the source yet. I found this useful post:

http://www.tv-cards.com/messageboard...pic.php?t=5428

I tested forcing my case fans to different speeds in my BIOS and when I cranked the fans up to max speed this did make the interference much worse... unfortunately in my case even unplugging the fans while sage was running didn't completely remove the barbershop effect. For grins I tried connecting a DVD play to the PVR-500 via the composite inputs and the connection quality looked great, zero interference. Based on what people have experienced on this thread and others I've read I've come to two conclusions:

1. The "barbershop" effect can be caused by EMI/RFI interference within your PC case. If you can disable "smartfan" or fan speed settings in your BIOS try this to see if it helps, as a next step try actually unplugging fans (temporarily) from the motherboard to see if this fixes the problem. My guess is some of the folks who had the barbershop effect on s-video or composite connections might have something in their case causing the problem.

2. The "barbershop" effect can be caused by EMI/RFI coming from the coax itself. My guess is the variables are your cable provider's signal quality, interference introduced in the cabling outside your house, and then interference introduced once the cable comes into your house and through any splitters you add.

Unfortunately in my case I've ruled out the easy stuff of something inside my case causing a problem. My next step is going to be trying to move my PC to plug directly into the coax as it comes into my house (temporarily killing my cable modem and other cable runs in my house) to see how clean the signal is there.

If anyone else has found ways of resolving this interference please let me know... the PVR-500 has a lot of potential but it seems like a lot of PVR-500 owners are having the same problem.

[SHS]

It possable but I don't think that the problem my 500 get that no matter what system I put it in to, but the 250 nor ATI 550 DOSEN'T do that which is odd and it made no diff what input it was even on even when I had switch back Dish going S/Video.
I going to pass that link on to the Hauppauge Engineering

[Blkhrtd]

I ran into this last Christmas, when I built a Sage Box for my Mom. I had been testing it out at my place using a Computer Monitor and thought everything was going great (Using a single PVR-350 then). Early Christmas morning after set up and initial testing, I saw that same Barbershop effect that hadn't been present earlier. It was weird because I saw it on the both the recordings as well as the normal TV's input, but only on some channels. I noticed that when the Sage box was turned off, the TV's signal cleared up, but as soon as it powered up, it was Barbershop time on both the TV and Sage.

I ended up putting a booster/splitter from radio shack in place of the normal RCA made splitter I had been using. That seemed to clear it up.

-Shadrach

[sfisher]

I think the crosshatching you are seeing is due to 4 issues

1. The cable company
2. The proximity of the tuners to one another
3. The relative signal strength
4. A bad card.

First make sure if you connect a TV to the cable directly, that the problem doesn't exist.

The second you can't do much about, the fact that there are 2 tuners on a board makes it easier for one to affect the other. However, if you have 2 boards like I do, you may find there is less interference if you don't put them in adjacent slots.

The third can be improved using a bi-directional catv signal amplifier I'm using an adjustable 20db amplifier where the cable splits off to the room my server is in. The lower you input signal, the more gain the TV card has to apply which amplifies the interference as well.

Forth if the above doesn't help then it is quite possible that you have a bad board try one board at a time in the computer, and see if one of the boards is worse than the other.

I was able to eliminate most of my issues with picture quality by using the bi-directional amplifier.

Good Luck
-Steve

[enthilzha]

Steve,

Thanks for the insight. I can confirm that in my case plugging a TV into the same cable yields a clear picture. I'm happy to try the filter idea - is there a specific model you'd recommend? Thanks!

[sfisher]

The bi-directional amplifier I'm using at the moment is this one
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...=0&dcaid=17379

It is adjustable 0-20db by a small hole in the side of the case with a flat blade screwdriver. I started it at zero, screw turned full counter-clockwise, and then slowly adjusted it clockwise until the picture looked as good as it was going to get. Keep in mind if you are doing this while watching Sage TV Live, there is still a small time delay before you will see the changes. Turn it a bit and watch for a bit.

The "Bi-directional" is so that it can pass signals/communicate back to the cable company; something the cable boxes need to do these days, also it works if you have a cable modem (internet from the cable company).

-Steve

[enthilzha]

Steve,

Thanks for the info... I was able to run out and find a bi-directional coax amp with an 8db gain and 3.5 db noise ratio this evening. I don't know enough about coax theory to know if 3.5 db of noise is acceptable or not. When I ran my connection through the amp (I did just the run going to my Sage HTPC) I started to see major static across all channels. I don't know if it was the noise or too much signal (I don't have coax signal measuring tools at home).

I have open requests into Sage support (who I bought the software and card from) and one into Hauppage. I'll probably see what they say and then make the decision to either buy the splitter from buy.com or else just return the whole bundle. Given this is a dual tuner card on the same PCI slot there is no chance of testing the tuners individually or moving them farther apart to resolve interference. Thanks for your helpful suggestions though!

[sfisher]

Got me. I haven't experienced anything like that. You either have really good / strong signal strength to start with, or a crappy amplifier.

If you only have the one 500 card then of course you can't move the tuners apart, I was refering to if you maybe had 2 500 cards like I do.

And of course it could still be a bad card, if you only have one it would be hard to tell.

Good luck.
-Steve

[Polypro]

I'm scared of amplifiers

(Stupid Moment Backstory): Rats nest behind HTPC, accidently connected a Weingard Squareshooter amplified HDTV line to the PVR 500...instant snow on all channels...forever.

I see the "lines" on some channels of the display I'm watching right now...700 miles from my HTPC and running directly into the TV. It's a Cable/Interference thing.

P