lots of sage questions (some Xcard)

[aoehlke]

Hi guys... just got around to using sage on the tv, had been previously using it on my pc monitor only... but tv is set up now(was in the midst of home renos).

I have many questions, maybe they are better served as individual threads.
here they are:

1) I have an Xcard, cause I want to use the PC while sage is running and figured this will save me some CPU cycles. I noted the other day when I tried it out, (by selected Sigma in the video decoder options) that the Sage OSD is still on my PC, but the video is on the TV... i think this is par for the course unless I use the Xcard plug in correct?

2) I tried without the sigma card too... somethings I dont get are

a) when usign the svideo output on the 6600GT I have, and if i set it in clone mode, I get the whole windows GUI, not just sage... going fullscreen makes it look like it's only sage, but then my pc isn't usable really... what's the trick here? sleep mode? how can I get it so sage is on a screen of it's own going to the svideo output?

b) when i setup the 6600gt to use TV output, instead of clone or dual view, i get some kinda nasty "noise" on the output on the TV... these are kind of semi transparent horizontal bars that scroll the screen... like slightly shaded bars, I dont seem to get those when I use the 6600 in dual view or clone mode, only when I set the TVout option in the 6600 control panel.. anyone know why? this is of course using the break outcable from the 6600GT with svideo connection

3)what is VMR and is it better then overlay, if so how is it better? does vmr9 work with sigma X card?

4)some parts of my on screen display have been kinda funky since I upgraded sage recently. There is a bit of black "chunkiness" around some of the Sage Icons on the screen, as if it isnt mixed properly with the video. When sage starts up too, I get a kind of little GUI bug with the main menus, it seems like some parts dont draw themselves right away. I am currently using vmr9 with transparency.

5) again, looking for a way to have sage on my TV, whilst still using the PC for other thigns.

sorry if this post is all over the place, but I know there are lots of knowledgeable people here in the forums so please feel free to reply to some or all points.

I have not yet tried the xcard plugin, maybe this is my solution... but I have heard something about how it is very slow.
Also,

[Opus4]

I'll leave the video card stuff to others...

Originally Posted by aoehlke

1) I have an Xcard, cause I want to use the PC while sage is running and figured this will save me some CPU cycles. I noted the other day when I tried it out, (by selected Sigma in the video decoder options) that the Sage OSD is still on my PC, but the video is on the TV... i think this is par for the course unless I use the Xcard plug in correct?

Correct; SageTV itself does not display the UI via the Xcard. Here is another way to use the Xcard via its VIP connection.

4)some parts of my on screen display have been kinda funky since I upgraded sage recently. There is a bit of black "chunkiness" around some of the Sage Icons on the screen, as if it isnt mixed properly with the video. When sage starts up too, I get a kind of little GUI bug with the main menus, it seems like some parts dont draw themselves right away. I am currently using vmr9 with transparency.

That almost sounds like image tranparency when using overlay... is 3D Acceleration enabled in Detailed Setup -> Advanced? If not, you aren't really using VMR9. Or, check to see if the video card drivers are up to date.

- Andy

[aoehlke]

oops, i did have overlay on... i dont know why... i must have been playing.
i normally use vmr9 with 3d accel so i restored that and "chunkiness" went away.

does vmr9 matter for the xcard?

I also use the intervideo for hauppage codec... is there a better one out there? I cant get the nforce one to work with sage(i have 6600gt)... what is the "best" codec to use?
By best i mean best trade off for cpu vs quality output.

still dont know really whats up with the tv output on the 6600gt, in clone mode or dual view, it looks fine, when i tell it to use "full screen video" i get that kind of ghostly banding in my picture, kind like a signal noise problem.

also, waiting to hear on how you can use sage on your tv, and still use your PC. currently, when i use sage, it uses up my whole monitor as well as my tv... it like it to only go to the tv, not the pc monitor.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by aoehlke

does vmr9 matter for the xcard?

No, you have to use default to see the Xcard video output if not using the Xcard plugin (I haven't tried the VIP connection opton yet); if using the Xcard plugin, the plugin handles all of it.

also, waiting to hear on how you can use sage on your tv, and still use your PC. currently, when i use sage, it uses up my whole monitor as well as my tv... it like it to only go to the tv, not the pc monitor.

Oh -- for my office PC, I don't use any clone mode -- I use dual view & extend the desktop onto both monitors. You should set the screen using SageTV to be the Primary monitor.

- Andy

[aoehlke]

Originally Posted by Opus4

No, you have to use default to see the Xcard video output if not using the Xcard plugin (I haven't tried the VIP connection opton yet); if using the Xcard plugin, the plugin handles all of it.

ok, I'm making headway, xcard works fine... havent tried the plugin ... yet

Originally Posted by Opus4

Oh -- for my office PC, I don't use any clone mode -- I use dual view & extend the desktop onto both monitors. You should set the screen using SageTV to be the Primary monitor.

I tried the dual view and it looks great! A few things I noted though:
-mouse can kinda get lost (while its over on the tv) no biggie
-you must mean sage runs on the secondary (which is the TV) so you drag your sage window over to this secondary monitor(the TV) and it runs over there... why would it matter if sage was on the primary or not? I tried it tonite, tv as secondary, sage on it, looked great.
- what is the "full screen video" property sheet for in the nvidia cards(ie my 6600 gt)... i have it disabled at the moment... i dont get the point of it
-how "slow" is this xcard plugin? is it really that bad? will I still have my transparencies etc? what settings do I use in sage (besides the obvious sigma choices)...?

[aoehlke]

oh i forgot to mention... there is no mouse with xcard plugin!
very hard to navigate... in fact, really really hard.
anyone got tips on how i can do this?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by aoehlke

I tried the dual view and it looks great! A few things I noted though:
-you must mean sage runs on the secondary (which is the TV) so you drag your sage window over to this secondary monitor(the TV) and it runs over there... why would it matter if sage was on the primary or not? I tried it tonite, tv as secondary, sage on it, looked great.

If using the video card's TV out, I mean that you may want to set that display to be the primary monitor in Windows' Display Properties -> Settings. It will probably run ok with overlay, but if you want to use VMR9 on it, DirectX's 3d acceleration works best on the primary monitor. Unless something is different on your card, DirectX will run much slower on a secondary monitor.

- what is the "full screen video" property sheet for in the nvidia cards(ie my 6600 gt)... i have it disabled at the moment... i dont get the point of it

No idea... can someone else explain this? (I didn't want it to get lost here...)

-how "slow" is this xcard plugin? is it really that bad? will I still have my transparencies etc? what settings do I use in sage (besides the obvious sigma choices)...?

It depends on the speed of the PC and the complexity of the screen... I don't find the delay too bad, but others might object. You would just have to try it. Just follow the plugin's installation instructons. (oh: it looks like you may have already done that...)

there is no mouse with xcard plugin!
very hard to navigate... in fact, really really hard.
anyone got tips on how i can do this?

Um... use a remote? The mouse won't appear on the Xcard's tv output, since it isn't a Windows window. The mouse should still appear over the window on the monitor, but that might not be much help.

I just put SageTV to sleep in the system tray & control it on my TV via remote.

- Andy

[aoehlke]

thanks for everything opus4.

I'm going to stick with the xcard plugin.

the picture is awesome and i dont notice lag on the UI. but then again, this is a pretty decent PC.

Now i just need a remote or something. I guess I could try that hauppauge remote. I have been meaning to buy the usb uirt.

other thing thats kinda weird... I didnt set up my sage to use "sigma" as the decoder after I installed the xcard plugin(mostly because I had no way to navigate to the settings page in sage sans remote).

To my surprise it worked anyhow. Is this because the plug in kinda "takes over"? And you only need to set the output to sigma if you arent using the plug in? It must be.

only thing thats kind of a pain now is that I dont have tv on my pc anymore. I like it on both. maybe if I use that weird pass through cable that came with the sigma it will work on my pc monitor again? I dont even know if sage is on the secondary anymore now that I'm using the xcard... probably not the right term to use "Secondary". I do see it in my task bar though.

any of this making sense?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by aoehlke

other thing thats kinda weird... I didnt set up my sage to use "sigma" as the decoder after I installed the xcard plugin(mostly because I had no way to navigate to the settings page in sage sans remote).

To my surprise it worked anyhow. Is this because the plug in kinda "takes over"? And you only need to set the output to sigma if you arent using the plug in? It must be.

Right -- the plugin handles all the output for the Xcard.

only thing thats kind of a pain now is that I dont have tv on my pc anymore. I like it on both. maybe if I use that weird pass through cable that came with the sigma it will work on my pc monitor again?

Yeah, if you have a VIP connector on your Xcard & video card, you could try that.

- Andy

[aoehlke]

actually, i played with it again this mornign and I got something setup that I like (for now).

I turned off dual view... since I am not using my video card to output sage, I am using the xcard. When I did this, sage appeared back on my monitor(but without the video, this is normal when using xcard).
so I could navigate the sage menus with my mouse on the PC, even though the mouse wasnt seen on the tv screen. It really worked well, but I do want to get it setup via remote eventually.

So now for my last question (I think).

You mentioned putting sage to sleep. When i go to the sage menus, and enable "Sleep mode" the sage display turns off, and I get a moving sage logo on my tv. kinda like a screen saver. Is this the sleep mode you referred to? Or did you just mean you minimize sage to your taskbar so that it isnt hogging up your pc monitor?

I dont have this fancy internal connector on my video card to try that alternate passthrough mode (VIP or VPI or whatever)... and I never loked to see if my xcard has the pins, but I know my 6600 gt doesnt.... but what about that dongle that came with the xcard... it seems to let you plug your monitor into your sage card, and then your video card into your sage card... maybe that would give me the video pitcure back on my pc.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by aoehlke

You mentioned putting sage to sleep. When i go to the sage menus, and enable "Sleep mode" the sage display turns off, and I get a moving sage logo on my tv. kinda like a screen saver. Is this the sleep mode you referred to? Or did you just mean you minimize sage to your taskbar so that it isnt hogging up your pc monitor?

I meant that I sleep it in the system tray so that it doesn't take any room on the monitor. If you have a Hauppauge remote, my sig lines contain a link to controlling SageTV w/o requiring it to have focus. For other remotes: send commands as event codes via Windows messages.

but what about that dongle that came with the xcard... it seems to let you plug your monitor into your sage card, and then your video card into your sage card... maybe that would give me the video pitcure back on my pc.

SHS would know more about that & may have more info on his site, but I believe that is for showing the Windows desktop on your TV, but if I remember correclty, it doesn't refresh too quickly.

- Andy

[aoehlke]

great, thanks andy.
you've been a big help.

Hopefully others (and SHS specifically) are following this still and can comment on that dongle cable... I have the literature for that xcard somewhere...

[aoehlke]

hey i was just thinking too... if all else fails, and I cant get the video back on my pc monitor with the xcard using a dongle or otherwise, I could always use the video inputs on the 6600, and run a line from my satellite receiver into them(say the composite connector)... then I could use a non sage tv tuner app to see the video on my tv. from my pc I'm not so interested in controlling a PVR, as I am in sometimes(rarely) watchign tv on it while surfing.

thank god i ran sooo many wires from the tv to the pc... i think it was 2 coaxials, and 6 cat5 lines... if you think about it, 1 cat 5 line can do video over 2 pairs, and L & R audio over the other 2... all in 1 wire!

PS - i find cat5 is absolutely great all purpose wiring... you can send audio over it and video... i dont know why people buy expensive cables... I see 0 difference in my 30' cat5 run for svideo, as I do in my 3' expensive svideo cable that a salesman suckered me into about 5 years ago when i didnt know better.

[aoehlke]

more thinking...
I may not need to buy a USB UIRT.

the hauppauge pvr150 came with a "blinker"...
I am now wondering if I can do the following:

-use my xantech IR block and extend a blinker back to my PC to control sage with my harmony remote. (see me thread on the xantech product)

-use the blinker that came with the hauppauge, and extend it from my pc all the way up to my cable box.

this should be doable... I will have a busy weekend making all the connections and then friggin with the software... but i think it will work.

[Kanati]

you get the harmony working with sage, send me your config for it.

[aoehlke]

Hi kanati... I hope to use the harmony, to emulate hauppauge IR commands... as my pvr150 came with a hauppauge remote.
So really, it is not getting the harmony to work with sage, it is getting the hauppauge remote to work with sage. Opus4 says this works and his signature line shows how to get the hauppauge to work with sage... once I am happy with that, I will either get the harmony to "learn" the hauppauge IR commands, or with any luck, the hauppauge is already in the logitech/harmony database... i suspect it is.

[Kanati]

ah... I bought the streamzap remote so your config wouldn't help me out any. Really I'm just too lazy to program all the buttons on the harmony to the streamzap. That's a job for a lazy saturday afternoon I think.