what the heck? sageTV needs 2 sec for buffering when switching channels?

[simisimisimi]

i would be so glad if anyone could help me.

i built a pvr myself on a brand new computer using a pvr-150 and sageTV (2.1). everything works fine, except that in sageTV, it takes like 2 seconds or even longer for switching channels. i use a "dvd standard play" setting.

however, in winTV, a software that came with the pvr-150, the picture quality is way better and i can switch channels real-time, without any buffering, using the same "dvd standard play" setting.

friends say: "well, thats because in sageTV everything is recorded, and in winTV, you see live TV!"

the weird thing is: i can record in winTV, if i want - so why is even liveTV always recorded in sageTV? for my, that's a big disadvantage, because the encoding/decoding is a quality loss and the 2 seconds between channels are a pain in the neck.

MY QUESTION IS:

do you know any software that combines the cool design and easy user interface of sageTV with the nice live-TV picture quality and fast channel switching of winTV?

i would be so thankful, you couldn't even imagine!

greets from switzerland,

simon

[mayamaniac]

Thats what PVR softwares does, it needs to record liveTV so that you can time shift (pause, rewind, foward, etc..). Although, I would like the option to disable timeshifting in LiveTV, esepcially if you have mutliple tuners and would like to dedicate one as LiveTV only. But for some reason, none of the PVR softwares out there has this option. WinTV is not a full PVR software.

[Crashless]

How are you changing channels? Are you using an IR blaster, or are you just using the coax decoding?

IR blasters are inherantly slow. If your STB supports it, you should look into serial control.

Other than that, I've gotten used to the pause. For me, it's an acceptable trade-off to be able to use all the other features that Sage provides. Besides, I don't change channels that often anyways. I almost always watch pre-recorded television now. Even if I watch something as it's airing, I usually give it a 10-20 minute head-start so I can skip through commercials. I can usually time it now so that I reach the end of the buffer right as the show is ending.

[simisimisimi]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Although, I would like the option to disable timeshifting in LiveTV, esepcially if you have mutliple tuners and would like to dedicate one as LiveTV only.

yeah! that's what i'm saying! what a shame they haven't done that yet. because i never use timeshifting.
they should leave this option up to the user!
so please, developers:
in 3.0, make sure you leave this up to the user! make live TV same as it is in winTV: fast and high picture quality!

[simisimisimi]

@ crashless: i just use that hauppauge remote!

[dvd_maniac]

i just use that hauppauge remote!

Not how you change the Channel in Sage, but how are you changing the channel on your STB (Cable or Sat box)? Or are you connecting the Coax cable directly to your pvr-150?

[simisimisimi]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Not how you change the Channel in Sage, but how are you changing the channel on your STB (Cable or Sat box)? Or are you connecting the Coax cable directly to your pvr-150?

i connect the coax cable directly to the pvr 150. but, as i said, it must be a software related thing, because winTV changes channels real quick in better quality.

[src666]

The second you put a "LiveTV" non-buffered mode in, everyone will be posting "Why can't I pause/rewind what I'm watching?"

It would be a nice option, though.

[korben_dallas]

Don't really understand why the quality would be better in WinTV.. unless WinTV isn't doing an encode, just playing the video straight to the video card. ?

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Don't really understand why the quality would be better in WinTV.. unless WinTV isn't doing an encode, just playing the video straight to the video card. ?

I guess you never use a tuner outside of a PVR software before, but yeah, there's no recording when watching TV. And without the encoding to Mpeg2 and all the UI rendering, the picture is usually better. And the channel changing is instant, not a second or fraction of a second delay, but instant like on a regular TV.

[bluenote]

you're using the tv-out, yes? only reason I can think of for PQ to differ between wintv and sage (Im sorry, personally the last time I used both I remember the annoying pause in wintv also) is that you have software decoding happening as well (and the de-interlace, etc, which can be *shit*).
I have no idea if that's going to help you, or even fits your setup, but FWIW.

Cory

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by src666

The second you put a "LiveTV" non-buffered mode in, everyone will be posting "Why can't I pause/rewind what I'm watching?"

It would be a nice option, though.

what's the difference? So they chose to leave out non buffered LiveTV mode and here we have a "what the heck? ... sageTV needs ... buffering" thread. Yes, give user the option is always better. I mean they can have buffering ON by default for all tuners, but at least give an option to disable it.

[simisimisimi]

hey guys,

first of all thanks for your help, but:

lets's talk about the real issues here: PVR/HTPC software solutions that can disable the timeshifting thing and just provide live TV like winTV!

some people just told me that there IS software that can do this: they named beyondTV. GotAllMedia and some others.

if sageTV would have this option in 3.0, i would just wait for that, but what if not? i'm tired of this 2 second buffering and this picture quality (and BTW, i use the same hauppauge decoders/deinterlacers in sage as i use in winTV).

so, does anybody know of software solutions that are similar to sage but that allow disabling of that "everything-is-recorded-for-timeshifting"-thing?

simon

[salsbst]

Truly live TV would pose a real challenge to the client/server architecture on which Sage is built.

[simisimisimi]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Truly live TV would pose a real challenge to the client/server architecture on which Sage is built.

this statement isn't answering any of the questions i asked.

[salsbst]

That's true.

[simisimisimi]

Originally Posted by salsbst

That's true.

yeah, see: that's the problem: i didn't ask the question so people can tell me that this timeshift thing is a good thing. because for me it's not. and i don't use that client-server stuff. i asked the question to find out whether it is possible to turn timeshifting off, or if there is another solution than sage where i can do this, or if it will be an option in sageTV 3.0.

sageTV is a solution that innovates by open innovation. customers opinions are very important in such an innovation process. i hope they take this seriously and make this an option in 3.0.
leave it up to the customers whether they want to EPG-surf or if they want to channel-surf. my girlfriend likes channel-surfing, and so do i! and sage should be girlfriend/wife-friendly! because often they don't want to timeshift but surf channels.

i don't think that sageTV developers suffer of an "not-invented-here"-syndrome and that they will do this soon. it would be so cool if one could switch from "real live tv" to "recorded tv" (like it is right now) with the remote.

i found out that in GotAllMedia i can turn this timeshift thing off. i will try this.

[stanger89]

simisimisimi,

Please don't take this as criticism, but have you actually lived with a true PVR for a while? Lots of people haven't and if you haven't it's hard to understand why PVR users often don't care about things like how fast channel changes occur, or other stuff related to live TV.

Why? Because a PVR will change the way you watch TV. It sounds corny, but it's really true. And timeshifting is (IMO) very much overblown, the real beauty of the PVR is scheduling and recording fuctionality. With a PVR, many find that they just don't watch TV live. When you can fire up your PVR, and watch anything you want to, not just what happens to be on now, it really changes things. Some find they don't watch as much TV, others find that they watch "better" TV because they can watch stuff they wouldn't otherwise. What a PVR does, is it frees you from the whims of the networks, allowing you to watch what you want, when you want to.

--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively, it's possible that you could get a "software encoder" and use that for liveTV in Sage. They aren't officially supported, but some have had luck with them.

[salsbst]

simisimisimi,

I'm not stating that the lack of a true live TV feature is something that I cherish or otherwise like, nor am I casting aspersions on your desire for the feature. I was explaining why it would be rather difficult to put that feature into SageTV (because it would meddle with the principle that the tuner card can be in a different machine than the renderer).

That said, Jeff (Narflex) has surprised us before with unexpected bounty, and perhaps we will see the feature in the future. I hope we get it, it would be nice to have.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by simisimisimi

"some people just told me that there IS software that can do this: they named beyondTV. GotAllMedia and some others."

I know for sure BeyondTV does not have a non buffered LiveTV. I don't know about GotAllMedia, but I seriously doubt it has it either. I said before, for some odd reason, all true PVR softwares don't have the non-buffered LiveTV feature.

Originally Posted by stanger89

... PVR will change the way you watch TV. It sounds corny, but it's really true.

I've been using PVR since Tivo, then BTV, and now SageTV. In between those three, I've tried other like myHTPC/Meedio, MediaPortal, orb, etc, but my point is I GET the PVR thing and know what you mean. Yet, I still want non-buffered LiveTV like simisimisimi does. There are shows that I watch that I don't really timeshift. My option right now is to switch to regular TV input, but it would be nice to have it in one interface within SageTV. And channel surfing would speed up greatly without buffering.