Help Chosing a Video Card

[TheraEdge]

So, I was looking at a Volari V3 XT because I have read some good things about it, but recently noticed that it only outputs component which I am already using that input on my TV for the DVD player. I also liked having a card that doesn't need a fan on it, as I want to put it in a quiet client case later on. So I am considereing getting the non-XT version that uses S-Video. This computer is not a gaming system, it is just being used for a Sage TV server box (right now before I get the client going I am using it as the main system). The card will be transfered to the client in the future.

So, to recap, the things that are important to me on the graphics card I want to use are:
-quiet (would like it not to have a fan at all, and not need one)
-good multimedia output to the TV (V3s use DirectX for some picture enhancement)
-TV output of S-video or RCA style connectors (would be nice if the card would support HDTV output quality for future, but it will be a while until I get HDTV service so not as important)

So, what are your thoughts on the Volari V3 and would you have any other suggestions for cards for me to take a look at for my application? The only games I will ever be playing on it are possibly some Mame...gotta get Galaga on the big screen, hehe. Anyway, would appreciate the help as my GeForce 3 TV out I am using temporarily seems to have heat issues after 30 to 40 minutes and I get some lovely purple and green screen colors...hard to verify the system is working if I can't stand watchin the shows...Thanks.

[PGPfan]

I have the V3XT, overall it's just OK. I certainly wouldn't get the regular V3, it doesn't 'fully' support DirectX9 like the V3XT does. I output via DVI to a VGA adapter then to my projector. DVD's look great, but I don't have software control over picture adjustment (must use the adjustment on the display) regardless of thru their driver, or applications.

If I were you, I'd try to hold off a few weeks until the Nvidia 6200"A" becomes available in stores. It is fanless, has great picture quality, and will retail for $79.00 (USD).

-PGPfan

[dbfresh23]

If you are going for Svideo now instead of Component, you may want to also get something with DVI output so you can later do DVI to HDMI via a converter (sounds like DVI will be gone by the time you get an HDTV).

I haven't tried the XGI video cards so can't comment on them but I'm sure that both ATI and Nvidia both provide much better drivers. There's a thread about the Volari cards here: http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ead.php?t=8935
The thing to keep in mind is that XGI is basically the product of 2 lower end chip makers. You can find ATI based cards that don't have fans. Also I looked around not too long ago and the Volari cards seemed very overpriced for what they are.

[taltman]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

I have the V3XT, overall it's just OK. I certainly wouldn't get the regular V3, it doesn't 'fully' support DirectX9 like the V3XT does. I output via DVI to a VGA adapter then to my projector. DVD's look great, but I don't have software control over picture adjustment (must use the adjustment on the display) regardless of thru their driver, or applications.

If I were you, I'd try to hold off a few weeks until the Nvidia 6200"A" becomes available in stores. It is fanless, has great picture quality, and will retail for $79.00 (USD).

-PGPfan

Are these Nvidia 6200A's going to be AGP 8x fanless? How much faster would this card perform over the existing Nvidia 5200fx card I have? I'd like to do HDTV resolutions sooner or later. Right now I'm running 720x480.

/Tal

[dbfresh23]

Video processing doesn't require nearly as much cpu power as gaming does. If all this is being used for is SageTV, I would doubt that you will see any difference. I went from a 128mb Radeon 9700Pro to a 64mb GF3 and cannot see one difference in quality. Though I'm currently using an xcard, i've also compared using the stock sage decoder as well as Nvdvd and Sonic.

I'd look into an xcard and ErsatzTom's plugin before even thinking about upgrading the card. The xcard has very good video out w/ support for svideo, component and composite. The plugin does have some limitations, such as no dvd or avi playback, but it's stable and I think a better option then replacing your video card.

The other option you may want to consider is waiting until Frey releases their MVP plugin. Sure one already exists, but I don't think Frey would release one unless it was a decent improvement.

Bottom line is that video just doesn't require a lot of GPU power, certainly not enough to warrant you upgrading an already decent card.

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by taltman

Are these Nvidia 6200A's going to be AGP 8x fanless? How much faster would this card perform over the existing Nvidia 5200fx card I have? I'd like to do HDTV resolutions sooner or later. Right now I'm running 720x480.

/Tal

taltman,

Yes, 8x fanless AGP. The 6200 is available now with a different chipset for around $120 (USD). The reason for the price is that they use the NV43 chipset which is actually designed for pci-e, so they needed a bridge chip to translate into AGP bus compatibility. They also are NOT fanless.

The 6200A is the fanless model. As for speed, I have no idea between the existing 5200fx. All I know is that it fully supports the feature set of the 6xxx series of cards, and does so without needing extra power and is fanless. It does support the Nvidia PureVideo deinterlacing, and WMV-9 in hardware. The speed of a card really has no effect on video playback, only gaming. This card will NOT be a great gamer (not designed to be) but should be decent if you do game.

Hope this helps!

-PGPfan

[TheraEdge]

OK, first as for not replacing my video card. It was never intended to be the final output to thee TV because I knew the quality of the TV output was not great, and now the darn thing can't even hold the colors right, plus there is no overscan setting, so that was really never an option for me. The Xcard seems too limited to me, especially when I see it is around $100 vs. some of these other full card solutions and like you said it isn't a fully functioning option.

So, I do like the idea of using nVidia or ATI because of driver support etc...So, that 6200A sounds interesting, will it be able to do video overscan? I hate that black boarder on my screen. The other question is, is it intended to be a card for output to the home theater or is the TV out going to be crap on me or go to crap? I never thought those outputs were considered to be quality on those cards as usually they just buy a chip as cheaply as they can from another company and plug it in to the board so they can say they have the feature.

Adjusted requirements:
-nice quality s-vidoe or composite video (possibly with some deinterlacing features etc...to clean up and crisp up the picture some)
-Fanless
-video overscan adjustment capability

Also, to recap the fanless thing, I am looking around for a case that possibly won't have any fans at all, kind of interested in that new mCubed HFX case without any fans...I guess it isn't quite out yet, but I suppose I might have to add a fan just to get some flow through there...this one won't be doing all the recording so I don't have to worry as much about that, but still don't want it dieing on me.

I guess I'm just kind of surprised there isn't the one leader of the pack as far as HTPC video output cards...I figured there would be one or two that I could chose from, but it seems like there really isn't anything that great.

[korben_dallas]

Thera,

You can get a fanless 9600 Pro that supports composite, S-video, DVI-to-component, and straight DVI-to-DVI HDTV for about $100. Check this: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=322256
I purchased my DVI dongle from ATI for $35 and long component cables from Chumbo for about $30.

I use a 9800 Pro with DVI-to-component dongle, but the 9600 works exactly the same. The options in the ATI control panels seem a bit more restricted when using the component output versus the s-video/composite, but it's working fine for me.

Stanger (our resident forum expert!) has a fanless 6800, but I'm not sure you want to spend that much. http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=322238

[PGPfan]

TheraEdge,

Deffinately avoid the V3XT! I tried to play "Best of Saturday Night Live - Christopher Walken" last night to a stutter fest! It plays at about 8 frames per second! Oh, how I'm quickly learning to HATE this card.

As for overscan on the NV6200A, I don't know. I'd imagine it will work fine since Sage provides overscan adjustment, but won't know for sure till we see one. Regarding "leader of the pack" for HTPC use, well I think you are asking for more than what most people want. The NV6200A may become the best for HTPC just because it fully supports the features that are in the 6xxx series of cards that are already considered best in class, and it's fanless (hence HTPC perfection) but, alot of people game on their htpc and as a result that's all that most review sites test for. For most people using hi-def outputs they connect via VGA, or DVI, or HDMI. Not much demand for decent looking s-video out of a 'computer video card'.

The mCubed HFX looks great. That's my next case as well. We should keep in contact as one of the AVS forum members and myself are trying to work out a 'power buy' on that case.

-PGPfan

[korben_dallas]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

For most people using hi-def outputs they connect via VGA, or DVI, or HDMI. Not much demand for decent looking s-video out of a 'computer video card'. -PGPfan

PGP,

Did you mean to say "not much demand for decent looking s-video out to HDTV sets"? Because a large number of forum users here use S-video out from their video card or 350 to standard tv's.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

TheraEdge,

Deffinately avoid the V3XT! I tried to play "Best of Saturday Night Live - Christopher Walken" last night to a stutter fest! It plays at about 8 frames per second! Oh, how I'm quickly learning to HATE this card.
-PGPfan

Wow! Mine has been nothing but great... Let me know which driver ver you are using. Aside from XGI not allowing specific powerstrip resolutions, this card has been fantastic for me. That really is no problem, however as I am outputting via S-Video.

Which decoder are you using and which 'format'... overlay or vmr? Is 3d accel enabled?

-Jason

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

PGP,

Did you mean to say "not much demand for decent looking s-video out to HDTV sets"? Because a large number of forum users here use S-video out from their video card or 350 to standard tv's.

Sorry for being a bit confusing. What I meant is the s-video output is a low priority for most all video card manufacturing since the cards are really not meant to output to a low resolution device like a SD display. I know we 'are' a growing market segment, but to a card maker the HTPC people running SD are a small, and dying group. HD on the other hand, is rapidly growing so that will be where they try to focus their HTPC developement support.

Is this any clearer?

-PGPfan

[PGPfan]

Jason,

I'm using TheaterTek for DVD playback (latest version with Nvidia decoders), VMR9 'exclusive renderless'. For most other DVD's I've had no trouble. However, I did try one that I authored myself and it was a stutter fest. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but trying the SNL disc makes me believe it's the card or (more likely) the drivers. I'm using version 1.08.1x WHQL LinkKing drivers.

Do you have the ability to control video (hue, brightness, contrast, etc.) from withing Sage (or whichever playback software you use)?

-PGPfan

[Jason]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Jason,

I'm using TheaterTek for DVD playback (latest version with Nvidia decoders), VMR9 'exclusive renderless'. For most other DVD's I've had no trouble. However, I did try one that I authored myself and it was a stutter fest. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but trying the SNL disc makes me believe it's the card or (more likely) the drivers. I'm using version 1.08.1x WHQL LinkKing drivers.

Do you have the ability to control video (hue, brightness, contrast, etc.) from withing Sage (or whichever playback software you use)?

-PGPfan

Use the 'latest' drivers... 1.08.53... (Latest not from XGI but from Lian Guan who manufacturers XGI cards...)

What's new :
- Game fixes
- Doom III improvements
- Fixes an issue in Lock-On
- Fixes an issue in 3D Mark 03 "Mother Nature" test
- Optimized DVD picture frequency
- Added 525p/720p HDTV modes

http://www.volarigamers.com/index.php?article=819

No... I cannot contol those settings from 'within' Sage... but is there a card out there that integrates that fully with Sage? I may be misunderstanding, but Sage does not allow that degree of integration... does it?

The DVD that stutters is a self mastered version? Which software did you use to burn it? That may be the issue.

-Jason

[PGPfan]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the link, I'll try those drivers out.

As for the stuttering, it was on a disc made with Pinnacle Studio. The thing that is interesting is that it also does it on "Best of Saturday Night Live-Christopher Walken" which ISN'T home made. It is a rental I just got from Peerflix. That's what makes me think it's card or driver related, as the DVD is video based rather than film based and that has an impact on de-interlace algorithyms.

The odd thing with the color controls is that I DO have control using TheaterTek as my DVD player (Sage pales in comparison, unfortunately) when using either ATI or Nvidia cards. With the XGI, I can't access any of the picture controls.

-PGPfan

[PGPfan]

Turns out that those were the drivers I had after all.

Still causing MAJOR stutters however.

-PGPfan

[TheraEdge]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

TheraEdge,

Deffinately avoid the V3XT! I tried to play "Best of Saturday Night Live - Christopher Walken" last night to a stutter fest! It plays at about 8 frames per second! Oh, how I'm quickly learning to HATE this card.

As for overscan on the NV6200A, I don't know. I'd imagine it will work fine since Sage provides overscan adjustment, but won't know for sure till we see one. Regarding "leader of the pack" for HTPC use, well I think you are asking for more than what most people want. The NV6200A may become the best for HTPC just because it fully supports the features that are in the 6xxx series of cards that are already considered best in class, and it's fanless (hence HTPC perfection) but, alot of people game on their htpc and as a result that's all that most review sites test for. For most people using hi-def outputs they connect via VGA, or DVI, or HDMI. Not much demand for decent looking s-video out of a 'computer video card'.

The mCubed HFX looks great. That's my next case as well. We should keep in contact as one of the AVS forum members and myself are trying to work out a 'power buy' on that case.

-PGPfan

OK, first, the overscan is also an integration issue. The hardware has to support overscan of the feature in sage is useless, and will not expand the edges out anymore than the card will normally do. It is a feature that was not as desired on pased cards, but the more people are using the TV outputs the more it is needed.

As for the HFX case, yeah, I will be around here some, so I will try to check back when they come out...what is the AVS forum? and how would we deal with payment...just a little scarey on dealing with people I don't really know. Also, I think I want to make sure the get the power supply to go with the case, not sure about the VFD & remote though, because I already have a UIRT, but sounds nice...so maybe that too...do you know what the MSRP is looking like it is going to be yet? I saw a price in Euros and kind of figured it would be a little over $300 so it's getting up there...

[PGPfan]

TheraEdge,

I understand what you want with the 6200A. I suspect you would be pleasantly surprised at what it will do, based on the current 6200. I've read no complaints about this card from HTPC folks other than the fan (which the 6200A won't have).

If you haven't heard of AVS forum then you are in for a treat. It's one of, if not THE very best forums on the internet for all things related to home theater. Quite a few of the guys here on the Sage forum are regulars over there including myself.

Regarding the 'power buy', it will be a "group purchase" where we would 'sign-up' for interest in buying this case. After say 25 people sign up, we negotiate a price direct with the manufacturer. Then, based on that discounted price, the interested parties would submit payment to the power buy organizers (all tracked publically on a website, for example so everyone is aware of their status, etc.) and once all the parties have paid, then we'd import the cases and drop ship to each persons location. (this is an example of how it might work. I've participated in them many time on the AVS forum before, but never run one. We will get experienced assistance in setting it up so that all parties are comfortable with it when the time comes)

FWIW, the anticipated retail is about $325.00 (USD) for the case. We expect the power buy to be in the neighborhood of about $260-$280. For the money, of course it's not a cheap case, but considering the only other option for a true fanless 'heatsink' style case is about $600 (A-tech Fabrication) it's quite cheap.

-PGPfan

[TheraEdge]

So is that graphics card out yet? I think my eyes are turning purple...

[PGPfan]

Not yet.

I was just checking last night, as this V3XT is a piece of sh!t. There are many sites that have mentioned it (mostly in Europe, since it was announced at CeBit) and Inno3D has it on their website (in english, as in USA) but nobody has in instock yet. I WILL be getting one the day I can find it available however.

-PGPfan