Unfortunate behavior when fav #5 starts at 11:05pm but fav #15 starts at 11:00pm

[rmellor]

Wanted to inform everyone about a problem I've recently come across. I have The Ultimate Fighter (on SpikeTV, airs new shows Mondays @ 11:05pm) as a "First Airings Only" favorite, high on the list, let's stay favorite #5.

I also have Howard Stern (on E) as a favorite, lower on the list, say #15. Stern's episode guide info is never correct, as his new shows air in the 11:00pm-midnight slot, yet the episode info always says those shows' original air dates were like 1994,etc. Anyhow, I can live with that. To combat it, I adjusted the Howard Stern settings to record "First Airings & Reruns", thus it will tape the 11:00pm-midnight episodes.

Now, here is where my problem lives: I have The Ultimate Fighter as a higher priority than Howard Stern, and thus, on Mondays, I would think the Ultimate Fighter (when new shows air) would get recorded instead of Howard Stern.. However, the Ultimate Fighter starts at 11:05pm, and Howard starts at 11:00pm and I do not think SageTV checks this, and it always record Howard from 11-midnight instead of The Ultimate Fighter. The behavoir I would want is for SageTV to realize the 2 shows air in a conflicting time, and it then decides based on favorite priority which to record. (Instead of recording the show that actually airs 5 mins before the other but is a lower priority show).

I also have The Ultimate Fighter set to about 10 mins padding before the show (because the 1st episode I think started at like 11:02 or 11:03 instead of 11:05 as the show info said).

So, SageTV guys - can you verify this behavior is indeed what would happen in my case? In the future, can you work in new logic to work like the behavior I would want?

Has anyone else experienced similar probs like this?

Thanks,
Rob
rmellor@vt.edu

[salsbst]

If it finds a way to work out the conflict (by choosing a different airing of one of the shows), it should do so, and if not, it should take the higher priority favorate

Are you sure that SageTV doesn't think that there is another airing of The Ultimate Fighter in a different time slot?

[rmellor]

>>Are you sure that SageTV doesn't think that there is another airing of The Ultimate Fighter in a different time slot?

Well, I think the reason is does not do this is because I have The Ultimate Fighter set to record "First Runs Only", so any additional airings are not true first runs. Not sure if SageTV is smart enough to record a first run in another time slot (when it is not truly a first run) if due to a conflict.

One solution that I could do but is not desirable is set Ultimate Fighter to record "First Runs & Reruns", and then I'm sure SageTV would find another airing & record it .. But the problem is that about 4 of the additional airings air during other favorites, which may be above or below Ultimate Fighter in priority, so as soon as I do this, I then have to check all the other shows for conflicts,etc and keep pushing this on..

The ideal would have SageTV see that Ultimate started at 11:05 and is a first run with higher priority than Howard, which airs at 11:00 as a first run or repeat.. Perhaps add a "favorites time interval" which you can set, and which then would check for another other favorites beginning in that interval, and would determine which to record. Example, set this variable to 10 mins. If a favorite is about to record, check and see if any other favorite starts in the next 10 mins, if so, check priority, and then determine which to record.

In reality, SpikeTV is stupid for airing a show at 11:05 instead of 11:00, but i guess thats besides the point.

[CyRex]

How about specifying a timeslot for the Ultimate Fighter favorite? That should keep Sage from trying to record other airings of the same episode.

[salsbst]

The real point is that SageTV should be operating the way you want it to. If it is not, there is a bug in SageTV or your guide data is inaccurate. Are you sure that the first runs of The Ultimate Fighter are properly marked as first runs?

Also, first runs are not determine by whether or not the episode has already aired... there is a flag in the guide data that says whether it is a first run... and if the first run happens to air a couple of times in its "first run" week, then each is a first run and SageTV will pick the one that doesn't cause conflicts, if there is such a one.

If you believe the guide data to be correct, and if you have verified that Sage has not selected a different airing of the first run, then you should submit a bug report.

[Opus4]

This seems to be a regular question... As was already mentioned above, a higher priority fav just means that if an unresolved conflict is encountered, the higher priority fav will get recorded instead of the lower priority one; it does not mean that the first airing is the one that will be recorded.

[Edit: There is a FAQ entry that works for this situation: Why isn't my Favorite set to record? It falls within the next 3 days, so it should be in my recording schedule.]

I looked at the upcoming airings for The Ultimate Fighter: A new First Run episode is set for 11:05 PM on 3-14-05. That same episode is aired 3 more times, all marked as First Run. Similarly, the episode from the other night has 3 more airings listed, all marked as First Run. If you go through your recording schedule, one of those airing is probably listed somewhere.

If recording the very first airing is a necessity, the above-mentioned option of using a custom STV to set the fav's time slot will do the job. But, if that airing is missed somehow, the others will be ignored and you may miss all of them.

- Andy

[bhageman]

I've mentioned this in a post before, but I would like to see another conflict option of being able to miss X minutes of a show instead of having to choose one show over another. For example, if "Lost" runs 65 minutes and "West Wing" starts at 9pm, I would like to be able to select a conflict option of:

"Start Recording "West Wing" after completion of "Lost""

Or be able to set a default value of:

"Delay Start of Any "Favorite" following another Favorite if overlap time is less than X minutes"

This would eliminate having to manually adjust padding for reordings immediately after shows like Lost, Simpsons or South Park that often run a couple of minutes beyond the bottom or top of the hour. This isn't that important with cable shows that are replayed a million times, but it is important with first run network television.

[bebanovich]

I had a similar problem with a lower favorite that ended at 11:05 causing a higher favorite not to record. The problem is that I gave a timeslot to the higher favorite and Sage was never trying to record it again (even though there were 2 or 3 later showings). This does seem like a small bug. I constantly have to make sure my 11pm favorite is recording and once every week and a half or so, I have to do a manual record.

[rmellor]

Thanks to everyone for their help & info, especially Opus4. Sorry about asking about an issue that was already seen in another post. I figured somebody probably had asked the same type of question; I just wasnt sure where to find the answer.

So, the first thing I did was extend my lookahead property to look ahead 8 days instead of the default 3 days (details on how to do so are in the faq link that Opus4 posted). As it turns out, SageTV was actually seeing Ultimate Fighter air in a different timeslot and was going to record it then instead of at 11:05, which is why I did not see any conflict arise. The show airs initially on Mondays @ 11:05, and SageTV decided to tape it when it aired Friday at midnight I believe. Before, I only had the lookahead set for 3 days, so I never realized SageTV decided to tape an additional airing of the show 5 days later, because I could only ever see 3 days into the future. My bad. BTW - i recommend everyone setting their lookahead to at least a week in advance, i find it much more useful.

I still will look into the custom .STV for setting a favorite's timeslot. I think that is an excellent feature, that would help resolve favorites that get aired a thousand times, like some shows on cable, and Howard Stern. Is the plan for SageTV to eventually incorporate all the goodness of the custom STVs in future versions? I have not played around yet with any .STVs other than the one that is shipped but I will definitely play around a bit now that I know they have some cool extra features.

And finally, I still do think that the "favorites time interval/Delay start recording" features that bebanovich, bhageman, and myself mentioned would still be a useful addition to the SageTV capabilities/features.

[ToxMox]

Setting the lookahead may be useful but there is a performance hit that you take as a trade off. As for using another STV to set the timeslot all you have to do is load the custom STV, edit your favorite, then go back to the STV of your choice and even though you may not see the setting in that favorite it will still exist for that favorite.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by rmellor

So, the first thing I did was extend my lookahead property to look ahead 8 days instead of the default 3 days (details on how to do so are in the faq link that Opus4 posted). As it turns out, SageTV was actually seeing Ultimate Fighter air in a different timeslot and was going to record it then instead of at 11:05, which is why I did not see any conflict arise. The show airs initially on Mondays @ 11:05, and SageTV decided to tape it when it aired Friday at midnight I believe. Before, I only had the lookahead set for 3 days, so I never realized SageTV decided to tape an additional airing of the show 5 days later, because I could only ever see 3 days into the future.

The FAQ should have noted that SageTV will look further ahead when trying to resolve conflicts; I just now updated it to try to make that point more clear. So... you don't need to set your lookahead time to 8 days. The resolution should have been in your schedule already. If using the Parallel Recording Schedule display, you just needed to scroll further into the future.

Is the plan for SageTV to eventually incorporate all the goodness of the custom STVs in future versions?

No. The default STV may get additional features, but I doubt it would ever attempt to incorporate everything in custom STVs -- for difficulty of support issues, if for no other reason.

- Andy

[rmellor]

Thanks guys. ToxMox - forgive my lack of research, do pretty much all the latest custom STVs all support timeslots for favorites? Like Cayars18 Ultimate STV?

Opus4, thanks for the response too. What I actually meant was this: With lookahead set to 3 days, on Sunday evening, if I checked my recording schedule, I saw Howard Stern set to record Monday @ 11pm, and then I saw recordings for Tues & Weds. I did not see Ultimate Fighter. (Because my lookahead was only 3 days). What I thought would happen though is that SageTV would still plan to record Ultimate Fighter on Friday; it just wouldn't appear in the "Upcoming Recordings" until 3 days prior to Friday due to my lookahead being set to 3 days. (I figured SageTV is smart enough to plan to record the show on fri regardless of lookahead time, it just wouldnt letme know about it until I was within the lookahead time).

Or did you mean that Ultimate Fighter (to be recorded on Fri) should be an exception and should have appeared in my recording schedule on Sunday, even though it was outside the 3 day lookahead?

I was thinking the 1st scenario is the case, but actually, based on your response I'm thinking the 2nd scenario is the case. In which case, I'm not sure why I didn't see Ultimate Fighter appear in the 'upcoming recordings'.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by rmellor

do pretty much all the latest custom STVs all support timeslots for favorites? Like Cayars18 Ultimate STV?

I know MalDude2 does, so therefore Cayars almost certainly does. I don't know about the others.

Or did you mean that Ultimate Fighter (to be recorded on Fri) should be an exception and should have appeared in my recording schedule on Sunday, even though it was outside the 3 day lookahead?

I was thinking the 1st scenario is the case, but actually, based on your response I'm thinking the 2nd scenario is the case. In which case, I'm not sure why I didn't see Ultimate Fighter appear in the 'upcoming recordings'.

Yes, I meant your #2. I've had a couple such conflicts where a recording ended up being scheduled beyond my lookahead time. The lookahead time has nothing to do with how far into the future you can view the schedule, since you can manually set recordings for any time during the ~ 2 weeks of EPG data in the LiveTV Guide.

If using the parallel schedule display style, you will have to scroll through several empty days to see the airing in the list. With the interleaved display, just scroll to the end of the list. It _should_ be there, even with a 3-day lookahead; if it isn't... then I'm not sure why.

- Andy

[laurenglenn]

I don't know if this is of any use (or if it even works), but when I had a ReplayTV, I always ran into problems when Alias went from 9:00 to 10:02 and then CSI:NY went from 10:00 to 11:00

It basically wouldn't record both. The solution I had was to set a manual record every week to record CSI from 10:02 to 11:00, set a favorite for Alias and set a favorite for CSI:NY. This way, if Alias didn't run past 10:00, it would still pick up both shows.... If it ran until 10:02, it would miss 2 minutes of CSI, but it would still record it.

Lauren

[nerys]

hey opus just an FYI but his rig did it right. because it was going to record the showing on friday there technically was no conflict to display but because he did not see past 3 days he did not realize this. so sage saw past 3 days saw there was another showing therefore NO conflict exists even though its not recording the showing he thought it would.

though I am getting really sick of these freaking off hour start and end times !!! GRRRRR they do it for alias every week so far I have been ok but there are times where even with 3 tuners I get a conflict just because of that damned extended run time.

I write a letter once a month to them bitching about it.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[laurenglenn]

Originally Posted by nerys

hey opus just an FYI but his rig did it right. because it was going to record the showing on friday there technically was no conflict to display but because he did not see past 3 days he did not realize this. so sage saw past 3 days saw there was another showing therefore NO conflict exists even though its not recording the showing he thought it would.

though I am getting really sick of these freaking off hour start and end times !!! GRRRRR they do it for alias every week so far I have been ok but there are times where even with 3 tuners I get a conflict just because of that damned extended run time.

I write a letter once a month to them bitching about it.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

What we need to do is start a mass e-mail campaign. Tell them all at once via email that we will boycott their shows if they continue to do this.

I imagine they'd get a bad email every now and then complaining about something less justified than what you're telling us here. (I honestly agree with you on this one).....

We should set a time for the mass e-mail, like 8:03pm, then 9:02, and 10:04.

They'll only listen if it's done in large quantities.....

Lauren

[nerys]

I never bother with e-mail e-mail is recycle bin bait

I snail mail a letter every single month.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/