HDTV Support?

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'll first note that I'm far from an expert on VDSL, but one forum member here has it, and I remember discussing how it worked...



AFIAK, it doesn't work like that. The does not work like you think, it works essentially like a digital cable box. What you get is a single box, and a few remotes for other TV. What happens is it outputs on channels 2, 3, 4, 5 (for example) and you have 4 TVs each tuned to their own channel (ie TV 1 watches ch 2, etc). You never actaully change the channel on the TV, you use the RF remotes to change the channel on the "gateway" which then decodes your desired channel and moduates it on the channel corrosponding with the remote you used. This makes it about impossible to use with a standalone PVR since they can't control RF boxes.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. Basically the telco would have to send every single channel uncompressed. I'll have to check with him again and see how it's actually working, what you said make much more sense.

[stanger89]

They wouldn't necessarilly have to send it uncompressed, but they'd have to decode all channels simultaneously at the box.

See that's the real magic of VDSL, it allows them to provide all the channels with MUCH lower bandwidth:

Cable operates inside 125 channels, with QAM 256 they can get about 36Mbps into each channel (which can actually be 2 or more digital "channels") so that would be about 4.5Gbps of data, and it's sent to each house on the network. Of course it's "multicast" to use networking terminology. VDSL OTOH, works completely differently, well not completely, but they only sent at most 4 channels to each house, of which most are probably in the 3-5Mbps range (quite possibly less if they use MPEG-4 or VC1), so that's about 20Mbps to each house.

[duerra]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It should also be noted, that it's looking more and more like a uncompressed HD recording card like mentioned above won't be necessary. It looks like MCE 2006 will support CableCard, which will allow recording of anything (except probably PPV, and no VOD) on cable. Now there will be DRM attached that will probably prevent you from (at least) archiving much of that to external media (like DVD). Hopefully streaming to other "client" devices will be allowed.

Yay.... then damn =/

It seems that as soon as HD becomes prevailant, the end consumers going to be left in the dust for things like PVR =( (if you want to make any sort of archives, anyway...)

[WarlordBB]

It seems that as soon as HD becomes prevailant, the end consumers going to be left in the dust for things like PVR =( (if you want to make any sort of archives, anyway...)

Yep. For at least 3 months or so anyway. Then DRM will be broke and we'll all be able to exercise our Fair Use again.

WMP 10 DRM has already been cracked.

_Anything_ that is allowed to go into a computer, regardless of protection methods employed, will eventually be cracked. At least I've not seen anything that is contrary to this statement.

Of course the majority of MCE users will adhere to the DRM because it's only us extremists that look for ways around obstacles to Fair Use.

[abasu2003]

I'm new to the HD stuff too.

So from what I understand of this thread, Sage supports cards that can save video from unencrypted HD channels and OTA HD channels?

The real question is, if I have an HD capable TV, can I use get an HD setup going with Sage and what would be its limitations if I can.

[ldavis]

abasu2003,

Actually Sage currently has no native support for any HD card though there are some clever Sage users that are currently on supporting specific cards. Many of us are (im)patiently waiting for them to complete their work. Basically there are several cards but it is probably safe to say the those that support BDA drivers (since this is the type that MCE2005 supports) will eventualy be compatible with Sage. As of now, AFAIK, only the ATI HDTV Wonder and the FusionHDTV line of cards use BDA drivers.

[edmc]

I've been suffering thru the various "issues" of the Motorola 6412 DVR for the past two months and longing for the stability of SageTV, my reliable DVR solution for the past two years. Alas, my transition from SageTV was driven by one on-going feature omission - HD support.

While justifications abound, the fact is that once you have all those locals in HD, you'll never be satisfied with SD/Analog...

I continue to give my emotional support to the boys @ Frey, but until HD is supported, my HTPC/SageTV remains off :-(...

[batorok]

I just got my first glimpse at HD, bought an ati hdtv blunder and it installed pretty painlessly, and I can receive much more than I thought with the included indoor antenna 36 miles from the towers. It's so beautiful, and so great not to pay for it, that I'm probably going to go MCE (or beyondtv if they support hd tuner cards) and retire sage.

This saddens me, but sage used to be more appealing than microsoft, and it seems they've been focusing their efforts on building a linux tivo device instead of continuing to be on the cutting edge of homebrew pvrs.

I can see their side of it too, the poll for hd support only has a tiny number of replies, so us early adopters must be few and far between...

[WarlordBB]

Add another VERY satisfied SDTV SageTV user that installed an ATI HDTV Wonder and installed MCE 2005 to test with.

I'm going to have to do double duty until Sage gets it together and supports an HDTV card.

Watching HDTV for _FREE_ in such a stable and pleasent environment as MCE 2005 is just way too sexy.

[g808]

I installed MCE 2005 for its HD support too along with an ATI HDTV Wonder about a week ago. It installed perfectly the first time and I've been enjoying free OTA HD from 11 channels and totally loving it! I had to get an amplified indoor antenna since I was only getting FOX with the antenna that comes with the card. I'm 35 miles away from a broadcast tower, so I'm a bit jealous batorok. =)

[batorok]

can you share what antenna you are using? I've been getting some jerkiness and dropouts, and have contemplated a giant flyswatter channelmaster 4228 on the roof, but if an indoor antenna will do, that would be great!

[hufnagel]

http://www.pchdtv.com/

pcHDTVtm proudly announces the HD-3000 HDTV card for Linux as the successor to the highly acclaimed HD-2000 card!


Now available, this made for Linux HDTV card is now priced at only $169.98.



If someone can hack up some drivers to make that bad boy work under windows I'd but a bunch right now.

[edmc]

Not sure why the "new generation" card is at all interesting - other than it's lower price point. Supporting only 8-VSB (i.e. no QAM-64/-256) is a joke imho...

[src666]

Originally Posted by edmc

Not sure why the "new generation" card is at all interesting - other than it's lower price point. Supporting only 8-VSB (i.e. no QAM-64/-256) is a joke imho...

Supposedly, QAM is doable in Linux, but no Windows drivers for it are guaranteed. Also, my understanding is that it requires software decoding of the stream (to break out the subchannels), which puts a higher load on the system. I sent mine back (was going Myth, gave up and found Sage) and will be ordering an Air2PC when they come back in stock. It does QAM, has windows drivers, and does all the hard work in hardware - the system just has to save the stream to disk.

[stanger89]

I can't find where the Air2PC supports QAM.

Also:

and does all the hard work in hardware - the system just has to save the stream to disk.

That's all any HD card does, write the stream to disk.