Watched recordings in progress are canceled

[salsbst]

Do I or do I not have to use the WATCHED command to make this work?

Just copy the files before you set them to watched.

[CyRex]

try to delete a program without the system prompting are you sure you want to do this and making you have to MOVE the cursor (it always properly defaults to NO) to YES to verify a delete a program.

the only time it should delete ANYTHING is temp buffer from live tv, over a episode limit IF the user sets that (and it should default to NO LIMIT) and if the system is running our of recording space (and again DEFAULT should be no do not delete)

Technically, you are not telling Sage to delete the program. You are telling Sage that you have already watched the program that it is recording. Sage then says, "Oh, you watched that already? Sorry, I didn't realize that... My bad... I'll delete it." If you tell Sage to delete a program, it does prompt you before doing so. You were trying to find a way around a problem that you were having (ie, Sage recording the same show multiple times) and it just didn't work as you expected...

[foolio]

it is not a "bug" - it's the way it's designed. if you don't like this particular feature, put it in feature request for the way you'd like it.

[nerys]

I undersand opus but alas I can not agree. ANY action that results in loss of data should always have verification. there was none here. thats a bug :-) every single PVR out there always asks to verify when an action will result in something being lost.

when I set programs that have already been recorded to watched are you telling me it supposed to summarily delete those programs on the spot ? no off course not. same with the partial. it should not have deleted the partial just for such cases like this where something unintentional is done and causes unintended side effects.

I for some reason just assumed when I did something global like this that it would not affect works "in progress"

Settings recorded programs to watched it not the same thing as pulling the plug. apples and oranges man :-)

how do I stop sage from deleting partial recording BUT still have it delete "temporary" recordings such as when watching live tv ? (actually since I do not watch much live tv that is not a big deal I just wish it would PUT these temporary recordings somewhere else :-) (just in case I DO use sage's viewing abilities later down the road.)

either way except when a global settings in instituted (such as keep only so many episodes or space almost full etc..) sage should NEVER delete anything without direct confirmation from me first. if it does so without confirmation that is by definition a bug :-) hehehe

the proper responce would have been (sage responce to my clicked set all watched) this will cancel a recording in progress do you want to continue ? YES NO.

this is how every single other pvr on the planet that I am aware of (Replay, TIVO, Dish, Comcast, Ultimate, etc... all do it this way)

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[Wheemer]

A bug is something that doesn't work the way it was designed. Sage operates exactly as it was intended to do. If you would like to have a confimation, as you have suggested, then that would be an additional feature. I would encourage you to ask for this in the feature request thread, it'll do more good taking this route than complaining about it being a "bug".

[nerys]

yeah I am going to submit a feature request but I have to also mention its counter to how all other pvr's work. ie purely feature request gets it on the back burner. I am hoping they will consider it a wee more important.

and although I agree with you its technically not a bug the result is the same something that should be a bug is "designed into" sage and really should be fixed.

SO much so that my first thought was this has to be a bug no way it is designed to whack and delete a recording without even asking me first.

just because an action is BY DESIGN does not mean its not a "bug" per say even if it was intended like that.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[Wheemer]

You are wrong. In my experience with Sage, this functions perfectly. I would never mark a show as watched unless that was actually the case. Therefore I would never loose a new episode. If I think it's something I've seen before (from the description) then I'll watch a bit to be sure. If I've seen it, then I mark it watched, then it is stopped and deleted. Exactly how I expected.

You have already stated that you are not using Sage as it was intended. THIS is why you are experiencing these problems.

This software shouldn't have to conform to every single users preferences. I would in fact really dislike having a confirmation. So I would be against this change. From my perspective this is ABSOLUTELY NOT a bug.

You can twist and say whatever you wish I guess. However the best way to get Frey to take action would be to go through the proper channels.

I really doubt you're gonna get this changed any faster by calling it what it is not.

[nerys]

your statement is mutually at home regardless of which one of us speaks it. so we are getting no where.

no software should delete something without confirmation. that is quite basic. again every single hardware dvr in existance does it this way

also every dvr in existance has a way of CANCELING a recording from the future or currently without using an IMPROPERLY named command called "watched"

there are dozens of shows I click "watched" in order to "cancel" it since sage has no cancel this recording option even though I have never watched it in my life

sage does not give me the abilioty to add recorded programs to the watched list to prevent future recordings unless I do this "watched" command.

thats a design issue. call it what you want. just because you have gotten used to and have accepted this "work around" to missing functions does not make it a sound design.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[CyRex]

First and foremost, I cannot believe that this discussion has been goin on this long.. It seems like the same two conversations keep going on back and forth.

NERYS - I know this has been said multiple times, but please note that when you set a current recording as watched, you are telling Sage that you have already seen it, thus, Sage will stop recording it. I, personally, cannot think of any other way that Sage would function in this instance. It seems that you are trying to take a round-about method to hopefully seperate yourself from any instance where Sage might delete your recorded programs. Unless I am mistaken, I still don't think I have heard a valid reason from you as to why you cannot simlply archive these recordings, since you are already taking the time to manually move them.

It is not, as you suggest, that we (all of the rest of the Sage users) have 'gotten used to and have accepted this "work around" to missing functions'; however, it is quite to the contrary, that you cannot learn this simply functionality of Sage.

If you tell Sage you have watched a show, Sage will not record the show...

If you have any rebuttals to these arguments, please state concise and well formed arguments regarding these issues and do not just reword your previous posts..

I hope I do not come off as angry or ill tempered, but I would just like to see a bit of comclusion to this thread...

-Dan

Edit: ^ Ahhh... drunken forum posts... please excuse the grammatical errors...

[nerys]

That right it will not record it which is what I want to prevent it from recording that specific episode again in the future. Clearly I was not being clear when I stated I understood this.

My problem is sage DELETED a file (should never happen) and CANCELED a recording in progress WITHOUT telling me WARNING me that this would happen.

NO it does NOT make sense for it to "stop" the recording already in progress. that makes no sense whatsoever on any level at all that I can percieve.

the WORK AROUND is I want to cancel some future planned recording. I should be able to simple click do not record this. but I can not because there is no option to do this for "favorites"

I also can not use WATCHED because if I tell it I watched Mondays reshow of todays new show it will also cancel the recording that was planned for tonight so I have to wait till AFTER it has gotten one recording already before I can tell it watched to cancel the other reshows (I know it works this way cause tonight it recorded Battlestar Galactica TWICE even though they were both the SAME SHOW

I choose NOT to limit it by time slot since that would invalidate the favorite if scifi MOVED its time slot defeating the point of favorites

what PRECISELY does archiving do ? does it DO anything to my files (my primary fear)

also when I ARCHIVE does that "set as watched" so the program gets logged as recorded preventing it from recording that same episode again ?

also my primary point is still valid. I do not know how to say it than rewording it. SAGE SHOULD NEVER DELETE A FILE without my permission ??? I really do not now what is unclear about that.

Assumption is the mother of all F***ups you get the idea

I do not like it that when I clicked set all watched sage ASSUMED I wanted it to both cancel any recordings currently in priogress and delete the partial made so far.

again NO OTHER hardware dvr on planet earth that I am aware of does this. ANY time file deletion is imminent a WARNING appears and it asks me to VERIFY the actions before an irreversable action is taken. this is just common sense protocal and how ANY remotely decent system is designed.

again my example find ANY hardware DVR and baring te exceptions I listed please show me how to delete a program WITHOUT warning. you can not do it.

the entire POINT of sage tv. more important than time shifting and pausing live tv and mergingmy media. the entire POINT of sage tv is to CAPTURE my television programs to files so I can watch them later.

EVERY aspect of sager tv should be designed from the ground up sideways and backwards to safeguard and protect those files. they are the POINT of sage tv.

how someone can not see it "failing" to do this as anything other than a bug (intentional or otherwise) makes no sense to me ?

What is it that I am misunderstanding ? maybe I am just using the wrong commands in sage ? I am very well ready to admit I am goofing here (and I did although on checking I find NO mention in the manual that setting a program as watched will result in it being both canceled and deleted if its IN PROGRESS already.

and in facts sage's own functioning makes no sense in this situation. if I PLAY a program currenty RECORDING it gets marked as watched.

why is it that if I EXIT that "viewing" before FINISHING IT thst sage does not sumarily CANCEL the rest of the recording and delete the partial ?

from what you said that is precisely what it should do. i does not cause it SILLY to do that. same as its silly that setting watched in menu would result in cancelation and deletion.

can I avoid this ? SURE I know better now never touched a watched command till its NOT recording anything.

but thats not the point :-)

Also I do not think you are coming across as angry. Frustrated like me yes not angry. its frustrating because we both appear to have clear ideas in our head but are having difficulty expressing them so they are clear in each others minds. the essential dilemma in all communications :-(

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[nerys]

FYI logically what I want what should be a given sage does not do. it would solve all of this.

automatically set a program as watched upon completion of recording it.

or have TWO parameters. "recorded" and "watched" recorded would mean sage already recorded this do not record it again.

that does not alleviate the issue that sage should have WARNED ME and asked me to VERIFY an irreversable act that would result in loss of the data for which sage exists to capture.

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[glbrown]

what PRECISELY does archiving do ?

This is what you are not understanding. RTFM. I mark a show 'archived' and Sage takes it out of the pool of 'deletable' content. Sage is designed to maintain itself.

I run 2 dish boxes. Sage records about 24 hours, 50 gig, a day. I currently have 500 gig, 10 days total space available.

Archived shows are never deleted.
Favorite shows set to never delete are never deleted.

All other shows are in a delete pool. I don't want to manage this pool, I want Sage to take care of it. Sage prioritizes this pool according to how you originally set up the recording and the watched/don't like flag. LIFO. RTFM.

I go to vegas for a weekend and when I come back Sage is still running. All the archived and favorite shows are there. The rest of the shows have been deleted oldest first according to their status, RTFM, so I have fresh stuff to watch. I navigate to the oldest shows in the pool and pull the ones I want to save with archive. Life is splendid just like before.

I have read all of your posts and near as I can tell, this is EXACTLY (sic) what you need.

I can't think of a better way to do it and my hat is off to Jeff and Dan.

and you, sir, need to adjust your meds, and, RTFM.

[salsbst]

no software should delete something without confirmation. that is quite basic.

Is this the 11th commandment? Who made this rule? Since I (and I'm sure a few others around here) develop software for a living, it would be nice to know what other rules are out there that we have somehow missed.

automatically set a program as watched upon completion of recording it.

You have to be kidding, right?

or have TWO parameters. "recorded" and "watched" recorded would mean sage already recorded this do not record it again.

Now you're talking. Sage does actually know everything that it has recorded (see the Viewing History menu for proof). It would be reasonable to request an option to disable recording of anything that has already been (fully) recorded.

that does not alleviate the issue that sage should have WARNED ME and asked me to VERIFY an irreversable act that would result in loss of the data for which sage exists to capture.

Here's the rub. For you, Sage exists in order to capture data. For the rest of us, it exists to act as a full-featured PVR. Maybe eventually you will come to terms with the fact that it is fundamentally not designed to be used as you are using it. Doesn't mean you can't use it that way, just that you're not in the target audience, and shouldn't be surprised when things aren't designed the way they would be if it's purpose was to capture shows for playback on other systems.

[nielm]

Please calm down with the SHOUTING... it makes your posts really difficult to read...

We can see that you are upset that you lost an episode of ER, but remember that you are using Sage in a way that it is not designed to be used (this has been mentioned to you in the past), and you are using workarounds to convince sage to work the way you want it.

Also what has been mentioned before is the properties file setting:

seeker/clear_partials_and_unwanted_when_ir_off=true

Set that to false when Sage is shutdown, and partial recordings will not be deleted until Sage needs disk space.

[cgrey]

Originally Posted by nerys

also my primary point is still valid. I do not know how to say it than rewording it. SAGE SHOULD NEVER DELETE A FILE without my permission ??? I really do not now what is unclear about that.

again NO OTHER hardware dvr on planet earth that I am aware of does this. ANY time file deletion is imminent a WARNING appears and it asks me to VERIFY the actions before an irreversable action is taken. this is just common sense protocal and how ANY remotely decent system is designed.

Really?? So please help out the other 99.99% of us that are using Sage (or any other PVR) the way it was intended to be used, and tell us how, in your expert opinion, this situation should be handled:

"Intelligent recording" saves hours of shows that are interesting to me, but not necessarily things that I can't miss, or wouldn't mind living without. Then, in the middle of the night while I'm sound asleep, a "Favorite" recording of my absolute favorite show is scheduled to record, one that I really don't ever want to miss. But alas, there's not enough space left for it to record.

If Sage (or any other PVR known to man) DIDN'T delete one or more of the intelligent recordings (that I certainly wouldn't want it to keep if it meant not getting my favorite) until I acknowledged that it was OK with me if it did, I'd be SOL when I woke up in the morning and discovered the favorite I wanted didn't get recorded.

So, what you'd rather see happen, based on what I've read so far, is for that favorite to not get recorded, because you didn't specifically say it's OK to get rid of something else to make room for it? That's absurd.

Originally Posted by nerys

the entire POINT of sage tv. more important than time shifting and pausing live tv and mergingmy media. the entire POINT of sage tv is to CAPTURE my television programs to files so I can watch them later.

You couldn't be further from the truth. The whole point of ANY PVR is do do EXACTLY that - Video how you want it, when you want it. Pausing live TV if the phone rings is part of that. So is going back through the same interface to watch what it recorded later.

I think the point here, is that SageTV isn't for you. Rather than continously belly-ache about it, and submit bug reports because by-design features don't work precisely the way your UNIQUE situation requires, maybe you should move on to something a little less confusing for you.

[glbrown]

Originally Posted by cgrey

maybe you should move on to something a little less confusing for you.

yea, like a vcr. it never deletes stuff

[Opus4]

Flaaaat.

Round.

Flaaaat.

Round.

Flaaaat.

Round! The world is a round like a base-a-balla.

The world is flat like a pancaaaaaake.

The world, she is a rounda like-a my head!

*pow* The world is flat like your heaaaaaad.

That's about all I can think of to add to this conversation, since this is just going round & round with no end in site. I think I'll just close this now, since I can't think of anything else that can be argued effectively w/o someone starting to get irritated.

nerys: What everyone has said above is the way it is currently designed to work, even in terms of its design to automatically manage recordings & deletions of those recordings to recycle disk space usage.

I'm going to my 5 year old's birthday party and will enjoy the fact that my newly recorded shows won't already be watched when I get back.

- Andy