Cost of "beta" entry fee...

[falchulk]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

I heard ATI driver support was not "there" yet for linux
and I cannot imagine Sage taking a chance on an ATI video card with this

Linux ATI AIW drivers ar not there yet, ATI drivers for non AIW cards are good to go.

[kdhamann]

What I remember reading (back when I was seriously looking at MythTV) was that Nvidia's Linux drivers support hardware decoding of Mpegs with Geforce 4 and up chipsets. Which would definitely take some load off the cpu. That may be the reason some people prefer Nvidia over ATI for HTPCs on Linux.

[gplasky]

Came across this case the other day and I thought of this thread about the expense of the Linux Beta.

Intel Entertainment Bare Bone PC

Picture of Case

$819.00

No processor
No memory
No hard drive

Not the same PC you would get in the Beta but I thought it might put the pricing more in perspective.

Gerry

[sudipto]

I was looking at the Intel Barebone Entertainment PC just yesterday, and my personal opinion is that it is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive.

I don't think the Intel barebone should be treated as a baseline.

[PGPfan]

I was considering this case also and was shocked at the price until I broke it all down. Consider the following example if you were to 'roll your own':

Case - $200
MB - $125
DVD/R Drive - $80
MCE Remote and Rcvr - $35
High end soundcard - $200
Card reader - $50
Dual tuner capture card - $150
VFD display - $75
Video card - $75
----------------
Total $1090

So, it's really not a bad deal at all. However, most of us have many of the parts already so it's a bit less of a realistic way to do it.

-PGPfan

[Lester Jacobs]

From a hardware perspective it might be arguable that the cost is not completely out of line. However, if one thinks about the business model involved, that's where I see the price being somewhat unrealistic.

For the most part the hardware can run either Windows or Linux. The question is, as a user or an OEM, why would I buy/sell a preconfigured Linux box over a preconfigured Windows box? Windows XP Home is less than $100. So we can basically say that the difference between a Windows SageMC system and a Linux SageMC system is $100 (we can discount the cost of the Sage software since supposedly both OS versions will be priced the same). Are people that price sensitive such that $100 will make or break the bank? Moreover, considering that Windows is much more "useful" and user friendly to the ordinary user, that $100 becomes a moot issue.

The whole point, as I see it, is that a pre-configured Linux system should be *SIGNIFICANTLY* cheaper than the equivalent Windows system. If it isn't, why would people buy it? You'll get a few Linux die-hards picking up a few but that's not enough sales to pay even web hosting fees.

My $0.02
Lester

[PGPfan]

I agree completely with you Lester. Especially regarding getting any of 'us' to participate in a 'beta' of the Linux version.

My post above was aimed at pointing out that the "Intel Entertainment Barebone PC" really wasn't overpriced, as was mentioned.

I truely hope that Jeff and Dan 'rethink' their strategy regarding Linux, and or Studio availability. Fact is, we want to help make Sage grow. By offering some type of 'beta' for the Linux, Sage is obviously asking for our help in debugging/troubleshooting it. If they are serious about using 'our' help, they need to make it NO COST to those that are willing to assist in testing/developement. Even if that means posting a required-hardware-to-participate list. Then we can control OUR cost to participate, and Frey gets beta testers.

-PGPfan

[korben_dallas]

With all the dual-tuner DVR's coming out from the cable & satellite operators, I'm struggling hard to see Frey's strategy on a $1,000 Linux box that doesn't support HDTV (at least we haven't been told) compared to a Windows MCE2k5 box that does and costs about the same.

[dbfresh23]

I don't think the cost of the beta box should really matter too much, it's just that beta. Whenever you make something on a lower production scale costs will be higher.

Honestly, if in the end the price cannot compare to systems like Tivo or Replaytv, they will never hit the average consumer level market. Microsoft didn't come out with MCE with intentions of not making something that can rival / replace Tivo.... Eventually. Basically if when all said and done the systems aren't in the $200-300 range of a Tivo then their sales audience will be techies and that's about it. Obviously Tivo cannot be deaf to the whole htpc buzz, they must be working on something with similar features. For sage to realistically compete for sales to the non techie public I think they would really have to consider a custom pcb with everything built into it, there by eliminating the need for 3rd party cards and vendors. If this stuff cannot be done, I see no point in even making anything other then the software.

[sudipto]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

I was considering this case also and was shocked at the price until I broke it all down. Consider the following example if you were to 'roll your own':

Case - $200
MB - $125
DVD/R Drive - $80
MCE Remote and Rcvr - $35
High end soundcard - $200
Card reader - $50
Dual tuner capture card - $150
VFD display - $75
Video card - $75
----------------
Total $1090

So, it's really not a bad deal at all. However, most of us have many of the parts already so it's a bit less of a realistic way to do it.

-PGPfan

PGP: I am not being able to pull up the detailed spec from the Newegg link above, but based on what I remember from yesterday, I think you have estimated a little too high on some of these components. Here are my estimates and the reason why I think this box is overpriced.

Case + VFD: $190 (e.g. SilverStone LC03S-VFD @ PCAlchemy or DigitalConnection)
MB - approx $75-100 (you can find one in this range that supports high quality on-board audio)
DVD/R Drive - as far as I remember it was a DVD/CD-R combo drive ... NOT a DVD-R drive. So I'd estimate approx $30 for this.
MCE Remote and Rcvr - $35
High end soundcard - $0 (I am pretty sure the sound is on-board and they are NOT using a separate sound card)
Card reader - $15 ($50 is way too high ... you can easily find 8in1 or 10in1 card reader in the $10 to 20 range)
Dual tuner capture card - $120 (from what I heard they are using the AVerMedia Dual tuner card, for which I haven't seen a price yet, but it is safe to bet that it will be less than Hauppauge 500MCE, which is selling for around $135-140)
VFD display - $0 (included with the case)
Video card - $60 (from what I heard they are using the X300SE card)
----------------
Total $525

Just wanted to explain my logic behind thinking why Intel's price is too much !

[PGPfan]

No worries sudipto,

Here is a little more on the machine in question:
Intel 915P motherboard, 250 watt supply, Gigabyte ATI RV370LE video card, Avermedia dual TV tuner card w/FM, LiteOn DVD/CD, Intel wireless 2200BG, Intel HD Audio.

You are correct about the sound being onboard, but nobody has a comparable onboard solution even close to the Intel HD one.

The Silverstone VFD is decent, but it is pretty limited in what it can display. I believe it's just a 2x20. I'm currently using a Matrix orbital 4x40 and it pales compared to the Intel one.

-PGPfan

[sudipto]

Thanks for the details, PGP !