STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[wayner]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

With capdvhs, you're grabbing the raw signal from the cable. With SGraphRecorder, you're getting the decoded feed from the cable box and thus shouldn't have problems with encryption.

So are you saying that with SGrahpRecorder you are able to capture channels that have 5C encryption? I thought that these two methods, along with others such as VLC, are just different software methods of capturing a video source and are essentially the same.

[wbarber69]

I am at a loss I Have proven this to work with my boxes I have gotten capture record channel change and time shift all working under test with laptop now when I try to implement the same setup on my server I keep getting no dump filter unspecified error over and over then it show the get file size info but nothing is ever recorded Ican't even figure out what is wrong I have tried everything and have blasted through all the mauals on this thread tring to figure this thing out

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by direwolf08

However, when I try to watch live from VLC, it seems like nothing happens. Could this be a filter/codec issue, or is something futzed with either the box or with VLC?

It shouldn't be a VLC or codec problem, assuming you have the latest version of VLC. Did your tuner box show up correctly in the capture window in VLC? Ordinarily I would say it sounds like your channels are 5c encrypted, but then I wouldn't think CapDVHS would work. You could try reinstalling Timmmoore's software and see if that helps.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wbarber69

I have gotten capture record channel change and time shift all working under test with laptop now when I try to implement the same setup on my server I keep getting no dump filter unspecified error over and over then it show the get file size info but nothing is ever recorded

What does work right now? Does the tuner show up as a connected device on the system? Can you play things back in VLC? What do you mean "it show the get file size info but nothing is ever recorded"? What program is giving you the "no dump filter unspecified error"?

[wbarber69]

Originally Posted by reggie14

What does work right now? Does the tuner show up as a connected device on the system? Can you play things back in VLC? What do you mean "it show the get file size info but nothing is ever recorded"? What program is giving you the "no dump filter unspecified error"?

I can view the stream through vlc I can even play the dump file while it is recording with vlc the sgraphrecorder is giving me the no dump file error but only when sage tries to record I have run through the setup over and over again and ass I said I can get it to work reliably on my laptop but when I tried the same setup on my server its a no go, everything works as it should only when sage is loaded and I try to record from the sgraph does it foul up

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wbarber69

I can view the stream through vlc I can even play the dump file while it is recording with vlc the sgraphrecorder is giving me the no dump file error but only when sage tries to record I have run through the setup over and over again and ass I said I can get it to work reliably on my laptop but when I tried the same setup on my server its a no go, everything works as it should only when sage is loaded and I try to record from the sgraph does it foul up

First of all, and I'm sorry for bringing this up because I'm usually not a grammar Nazi, can you try to put in the periods so I can tell where your sentences start and stop? I'm having a hard time reading your posts.

Second, I assume you're trying to play things back on your desktop PC. One thing you should know is the only thing that I can reliably play firewire recordings on is the HD extender. My computers can sometimes play back the recordings, but they usually can't. I'm not sure what's going on. I don't think the Haali splitter handles errors in the stream very well.

Third, I'm still confused when you're seeing this error message and what's going on when you see it. So, suppose you start sgraphrecorder, you start Sage, and you select a (live) channel to watch. I realize playback doesn't work. But, is a recording file being generated wherever it is you set up the graph to save the files to?

Do you have multiple recording directories? If so, did you remember to modify your Sage.properties file so your firewire tuner will only use the same recording directory as the one you configured in graphedit?

I don't think this is relate to your problem, but one thing I had to do was unregister the dump.ax file that was in the graphedit folder. That is alluded to in this post. That might be something you should try doing if we don't think of anything else first.

[wbarber69]

I have tried every version of dump.ax I can find I have loaded and unloaded them all many times. I have the file showing up where it should it just remains at 0 bytes and never actually records anything. WHen I stop it and go to the debug screen an scroll all the way back to the top I see where it started the stream and then it says unspecified error then it goes on to show all of the get file messages from that point on as if it were recording but something is happening just at the point where it starts recording where sage is dropping the stream but still relaying messages back and forth.

I wish there was an easier way if doing this like, install drivers, start sagetv, picck your stb from the line up. if a tivo can hook up in this fashion it shouldn't be this hard to do in sage

[wbarber69]

ok so get this I tried everything under the sun there must be something minutely wrong with the .ini that comes stock with sgraphrecorder. I handcoded one from scratch and now I am recording and watching live firewire

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wbarber69

WHen I stop it and go to the debug screen an scroll all the way back to the top I see where it started the stream and then it says unspecified error then it goes on to show all of the get file messages from that point on as if it were recording but something is happening just at the point where it starts recording where sage is dropping the stream but still relaying messages back and forth.

It doesn't seem like this should be a Sage thing, because Sage isn't really doing much here. Most of the stuff going on is in sgraphrecorder and Timmmore's hacked drivers.

What happens when you try recording from graphedit? Does that work?

I wish there was an easier way if doing this like, install drivers, start sagetv, picck your stb from the line up. if a tivo can hook up in this fashion it shouldn't be this hard to do in sage

The TiVo's hook up to cable in a different way- they use cable cards to decode the signal. Unfortunately, the cable card gods will not bless anything other than specific computer manufacturers' systems running WinMCE with cable card worthiness. So, we're stuck doing hacks to get HD capture working. There's basically three options: HD-PVR, R5000 and firewire capture. The first two are moderately expensive, but they're supported. Firewire capture is cheap, but it's buggy, development has stopped, and nobody supports what was already made.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wbarber69

ok so get this I tried everything under the sun there must be something minutely wrong with the .ini that comes stock with sgraphrecorder. I handcoded one from scratch and now I am recording and watching live firewire

Ahh, congrats. I think I copied the .ini file from one of the tutorials

So you have it playing back on a computer right now? If so, how? My files play back fine on the HD100, but not directly on the Sage server or on clients. I assume you're just dumping the transport stream directly, and not converting it to a program stream like the older tutorials suggested. What splitter (e.g., Haali) are you using? What mpeg2 decoder?

[wbarber69]

amd 2800+, 1.5 GB ram, Pvr-500, Pvr-150, 2 firewireSTB, 1 digital STB through composite. Watching straight off the server over a radeon x800 of coarse I would never recommend playing back hd while recording hd especially since I have 2, but it does work and watching the stream live is the only way I was able to verify while recording on my laptop so I needed it working because I needed to verify the stream was being recorded and since it wasn't there you go. The thing is the graphs I was using worked fine very very fine, but it was sgraphrecorders ini there must be some miniscule dot in there that fouls things up cause I compared it to what i built by hand from memory and it was flawless

[wbarber69]

i just have the basics setup nothing special i dont tweak much on this system as a matter of fact its been almost 2 years since i changed anything on this pc i may get 2 more firewire sources up and running so i can get rid of tuner cards and intsall an sata card so i can up my data rates

[davidk21770]

Originally Posted by wayner

So are you saying that with SGrahpRecorder you are able to capture channels that have 5C encryption? I thought that these two methods, along with others such as VLC, are just different software methods of capturing a video source and are essentially the same.

I haven't checked that it's specifically 5C, but yes -- I can record channels with SGraphRecorder that I can not record with HD-HR because they're marked as encrypted in HD-HR's channel scan.

[reggie14]

I'd appreciate any information people have about playing back firewire recordings from software clients (i.e., not the extender). Specifically, I'm interested in what splitter people are using. The Haali Media Splitter seems like the main one, but I've seen a Sage TS splitter filter while using graphedit, and maybe that one is suppose to work better (though, I'm still having problems attempting to try it out). I'm also curious what mpeg2 decoder (e.g., PowerDVD7/8, WinDVD, Purevideo, etc.) people are using.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

I haven't checked that it's specifically 5C, but yes -- I can record channels with SGraphRecorder that I can not record with HD-HR because they're marked as encrypted in HD-HR's channel scan.

5c encryption is different than the "normal" digital cable encryption. 5c encryption is for encrypting communications between media devices. For example, it would protect the digital information passed from your cable box to your TV. There the STB would be encrypting the digital video and passing it to the TV to be decrypted. This is different than the type of encryption used to protect premium channels and other types of digital TV. In that case the encryption is applied by the cable company and decrypted by the STB.

While 5c has an encryption component, it's really about controlling what users are allowed to do with the digital information. Or, more specifically, it's about copy protection. As far as I know, cable companies can mark channels one of three ways: copy-freely, copy-once, and copy-never. If a channel is marked copy-freely, it will get sent out from the firewire jack without 5c encryption. If it has either of the other two, it will be encrypted. The idea being that any piece of equipment capable of decrypting the signal will obey the copy restrictions.

To sums things up, the HD HomeRun can only capture unencrypted digital TV. Using sgraphrecorder and a firewire STB, you can (sometimes) capture encrypted digital TV, but only if the channel isn't marked with any copy protection.

[Endymion]

Originally Posted by wbarber69

i just have the basics setup nothing special i dont tweak much on this system as a matter of fact its been almost 2 years since i changed anything on this pc i may get 2 more firewire sources up and running so i can get rid of tuner cards and intsall an sata card so i can up my data rates

Make sure that the dump file you set in the graph is pointing to the recording drive and directory that sage is using. In other words, when you are building the graph in GraphEdit, and you choose the dump filter (I use cyberlink), it will pop up and ask you where you want the dump file to go. Point it to the Sage recordings directory, type in SGR.mpg or something and hit OK. Then when you run the graph it should create an SGR.mpg in the sage recording directory tha tyou should be able to play back with VLC. If you can, then make sure if you have multiple recording directories that you alter the sage.properties for that tuner (SageGraphRecorder) to only record in the directory you pointed the dump filter to. If the dump filter is pointing to a different directory than the sage recording folder, then it will not work. If you have multiple recording directories in sage, it will try to save the recording file from the SGR tuner into which ever directory has the most space available. If this is different than the directory the dump filter points to , the recording is hosed and won't play in sage (and won't record at all if I remember right).

Got all that?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Endymion

Make sure that the dump file you set in the graph is pointing to the recording drive and directory that sage is using. In other words, when you are building the graph in GraphEdit, and you choose the dump filter (I use cyberlink), it will pop up and ask you where you want the dump file to go.

I think wbarber69 got things working, but I could use some help. Mine records fine, and recordings play back on the extenders, but not software clients. I'm a little confused by one of your statements here You said you're using a Cyberlink dump filter. What does your graph look like? Mine is just my tuner device going straight to a SBDARecorderDump filter. Is this Cyberlink dump filter a replacement for the SBDARecorderDump filter? If so, is there a reason you're using that one over the other?

[davidk21770]

Yes, it makes a difference. I'm not familiar with the CyberLink filter, but Windows has a dump filter that, for me, blocked the SBDARecorderDump. It showed the SBDARecorderDump filter in the direct show filters list, but it was actually using the windows dump filter. It took me while to figure that out (I had to look at the actual file being used when I hooked-in the filter). The windows filter would dump to file just fine, but would not work with SGraphRecorder (the docs mention an interface that must be implemented above and beyond the file dump itself). I had to unregister the windows filter, un- and re-register the SBDARecorderDump, then rebuild my graph and it worked.

How is the Cyberlink filter an improvement on the SBDARecorderDump?

[easperhe]

All,

I built my first HTPC a couple weeks ago and have been trying to get firewire recording from DCH3200 to work in SageTV. I'm new to SageTV (was BTV), Direct-show graphs, FireWire, etc. But I've found a few things that have helped me and want to share with others. If I say some things that others already know, forgive me. I'm just trying to help others that are new to this like I am. And, I've tried to read through this and AVSforum threads on firewire recording but they are too long for me to get through the whole thing.

* My first issue was with skip fwd/back. Sage would get lost and skip all around. I just stumbled upon the sticky thread about SageTV's new mpegdemux.ax driver. I installed the latest version (ver.2.0.1.39) along with other driver myasyncflt.ax. It appears that has fixed the problem. I believe mpegdemux is doing the same thing (demuxing) that the Haili splitter does. correct?

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...light=firewire

* My second issue was robust/stable channel changing. I see that others have increased the delay time in their sgraphrecorder.ini file to large values, e.g. 8000 for me. I need this to get robust channel changing in SageTV. Why is this needed and/or is there any solution that provides faster channel changing? I'm don't mean this to sound overly negative towards SageTV. But the channel change time is frustrating considering I can happily change channels in 0.5-2.0 Sec when viewing firewire stream in VLC and never have any problems.

Now a couple of general firewire questions I hope others can help me with.

Q1: Is there a good thread/doc that details the entire video/audio pipelines and/or combination/order of DirectShow filters? Other threads talk about using this or that filter and it's not clear to me what is possible or what other filters I would have to use if I wanted to dictate everything via DS graph.

Q2: I've read up on Transport Stream vs Program Stream at http://www.vbrick.net/Topics/transport_stream.htmand I'm not an expert by any means. But everyone says the firewire output is TS. How can that be when the cable box must have demuxed the individual program I want to view out of the TS. Thus, wouldn't this make the cablebox firewire output a PS?

[Endymion]

Originally Posted by davidk21770

Yes, it makes a difference. I'm not familiar with the CyberLink filter, but Windows has a dump filter that, for me, blocked the SBDARecorderDump. It showed the SBDARecorderDump filter in the direct show filters list, but it was actually using the windows dump filter. It took me while to figure that out (I had to look at the actual file being used when I hooked-in the filter). The windows filter would dump to file just fine, but would not work with SGraphRecorder (the docs mention an interface that must be implemented above and beyond the file dump itself). I had to unregister the windows filter, un- and re-register the SBDARecorderDump, then rebuild my graph and it worked.

How is the Cyberlink filter an improvement on the SBDARecorderDump?

I dunno how it's an improvement over SBDARecorderDump. I've never used SBDARecorderDump, nor do I even know where to get it. I got the cyberlink dump filter because it was the one recommended when firewire capping was being figured out and we learned we could forego the tssplitter part of the graph.

All I can say is the cyberlink dump filter worked from the start for me and I have never had problems of any kind. No other filter conflicts, etc.