STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[evilpenguin]

Is it one of the lower, analog, channels that you can get through a regular TV tuner (2-70ish), because I seem to remember that if you tried to tune to one of them the Moto 6XXX boxes would take those analog channels, digitize them in the box, and then send them out via the firewire.

And while thats cool on paper, in practice its just like having a really shitty analog tuner card stuffed into the cable box. So if this is the case, I'd limit your firewire recordings to 100+ channels which are digitized before they're sent out.

[DrivingManiac]

Can any of you confirm if Closed Captioning works when recorded via firewire? I've seen the thread with closed captioning but I'm truly deaf and I really need for captioning to work. I know there must be some of you out there that have a desire for captioning as well, and can provide me with any insight or knowledge about the captioning side of things.

[ke6guj]

I can confirm that there are closed captions embedded in the recordings via firewire. The issue becomes displaying them.

YOu have to use eithe the PowerDVd or WinDVD decoders to display them, and right now, I haven't been happy with the quality of the CC playback on either of them. They either drop way too many letters in the CC as to make them unreadable, or they don't work for all recordings (even when I know for a fact that there is CC there).

There is another way to see the CC by using CCextractor, a closed caption extractor program, that will save the captions in a text file that a plug-in for Sage can read and display on screen. It takes a little more work to set up, and won't work for LiveTV, only recorded stuff, but it is an option.

There are a couple deaf guys that use Sage, and I am hard of hearing (better after I had ear surgery), so we do appreciate CC and have messed with it.

If you are willing to record analog, the Hauppauge brand cards support CC and analog CC is easy to get working in Sage.

[arnymars]

It looks like SGraphRecorder records every watched in SageTV show to a dump.ts type of file, even if Record Show command is not activated in Sage.
- What's the difference btw SGR and Sage Record Show recorded files? Is Record Show command redundant in FW setup?
- Can shows be recorded by SGR in a 1-hour loop for timeshifting: i.e., record for 1-hour, than discard the file and continue recording from the current time point?
- To watch a show via FW in Sage, but don't record it - how to set it up?
- If I setup 2 different graphs for that in SGR - Record and Watch, how to switch btw these Graphs from within Sage?

[weeber]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Is it one of the lower, analog, channels that you can get through a regular TV tuner (2-70ish), because I seem to remember that if you tried to tune to one of them the Moto 6XXX boxes would take those analog channels, digitize them in the box, and then send them out via the firewire.

And while thats cool on paper, in practice its just like having a really shitty analog tuner card stuffed into the cable box. So if this is the case, I'd limit your firewire recordings to 100+ channels which are digitized before they're sent out.

Hmm, I did not realize this but it kinda makes sense. Right now I'm using my STB to record all my channels. Are you saying that it's better just to have my old PVR-250 record the analogs for me? Currently, it's just sitting in my computer so I can use it's IR receiver capability.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by weeber

Hmm, I did not realize this but it kinda makes sense. Right now I'm using my STB to record all my channels. Are you saying that it's better just to have my old PVR-250 record the analogs for me? Currently, it's just sitting in my computer so I can use it's IR receiver capability.

Yep, that's your best bet.

[arnymars]

Attached Win XP batch file will start from a hidden Cmd window SGraphRecorder instances for each of your STBs with 3 sec delay btw them to load the graphs, then start SageTV, and wait till you are done with recording shows. When you close SageTV, it'll close all instances of SGraphrecorder and remove its icons from the Taskbar. No need to start SGraphRecorder at system startup and close it manually. See included Readme for details.

Enjou

[Brent]

Has anyone ever had any luck getting channel changing via firewire working on the SA 4250 HDC?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Brent

Has anyone ever had any luck getting channel changing via firewire working on the SA 4250 HDC?

Okay, I've been working on following the various instructions out there on this and having little success. My main goal is to be able to change channels via firewire - not necessarily watch video output through firewire (I'll be using the HD-PVR for that hopefully....)

I need someone who's been through this stuff to help me make sure I'm doing this right. Here's the steps I've taken thus far:

Mike pointed me toward this helpful how-to on channel changing in SageTV
So I then read this how-to by bohica regarding firewire

1. I downloaded graphedit from here and put it in c:\firewire\
2. I then downloaded this to get propage.dll and put propage.dll in c:\firewire
3. I then did a regsvr32 proppage.dll successfully
4. I could open graphedit so all looked good. I closed graphedit
5. I shut down SageTV and SageTV service
6. I connected my 4250HDC cable box to my PC using a firewire cable and as the instructions said I had 4 new devices detected - I canceled the driver install at that time per instructions
7. I went to this post and downloaded the firestb.msi file. I moved this firestb.msi file to my c:\firewire directory
8. Opened up command line went to the c:\firewire directory and entered:

   MSIEXEC /i firestb.msi IDENT=0

   this installs the firestb.msi files. I put them in c:\firewire directory
9. Rebooted PC
10. Installed the drivers for the tuner and av panel. Disabled the two unknown devices.
11. With the cable box turned on, opened up the command prompt and went to c:\firewire directory
12. typed in channel /v and the first two devices were the cable box tuner and cable box panel device. Here's the first two devices output from this channel /v:

    C:\Firewire>channel /v
    Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
    1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
    'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
    "@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_5&id_0#263452ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-
    11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
    2 "AVC Panel Device"
    'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'
    
    UniqueID '263452ea1c00'
    VendorID '1cea'
    ModelID '10cc'
    VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
    ModelText 'Explorer(R) 4300'
    "@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_9&id_0#263452ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-
    11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0

13. so the panel is device #2. I entered the following in the command line: channel /v 2 33 and the result was as follows:

    C:\Firewire>channel /v 2 33
    Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
    Device 2 Channel 33 Timeout 100 Dec 0
    1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
    'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
    "@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_5&id_0#263452ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-
    11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
    2 "AVC Panel Device"
    'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'
    
    UniqueID '263452ea1c00'
    VendorID '1cea'
    ModelID '10cc'
    VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
    ModelText 'Explorer(R) 4300'
    "@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_9&id_0#263452ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-
    11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
    3 'Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture'
    "@devicenp:\\?\pci#ven_4444&dev_0016&subsys_e8070070&rev_01#5&9c5ad52&0&4008f0#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a
    3b9-00a0c9223196}\{9b365890-165f-11d0-a195-0020afd156e4}" 0
    4 'Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture'
    "@devicenp:\\?\pci#ven_4444&dev_0016&subsys_e8170070&rev_01#5&9c5ad52&0&4808f0#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a
    3b9-00a0c9223196}\{9b365890-165f-11d0-a195-0020afd156e4}" 0
    5 'Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2 Encoder'
    "@devicenp:\\?\usb#vid_2040&pid_2900#5&3975c876&0&7#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\capture"
    0
    6 'Camtasia Studio Video Capture Driver'
    "@device:cm:{860BB310-5D01-11D0-BD3B-00A0C911CE86}\Camtasia Studio Video Capture Driver" 0
    This device is not supported, if you are sure then add the -f flag
    Calling CoUninitialize
    Called CoUninitialize

Unfortunately the channel on the cable box did not change. Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong or is my box not going to work for this?

[montgomeryt]

I followed the same instructions minus the Graphing software - just needed channeling changing.
Here is my output and keep in mind I have the SA3250:

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>channel -v 2 29
Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
Device 2 Channel 29 Timeout 100 Dec 0
1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_3250hd&typ_5&id_0#92fe
00921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
2 "AVC Panel Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'

UniqueID '92fe921600'
VendorID '1692'
ModelID 'be0'
VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
ModelText 'Explorer(R) 3250HD'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_3250hd&typ_9&id_0#92fe
00921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 1
3 'Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture'
"@devicenp:\\?\pci#ven_4444&dev_0016&subsys_80030070&rev_01#4&2af9ed5&0&20f0#{
65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\{9b365890-165f-11d0-a195-0020afd156e4}" 0
Device Id "Device Version "2.1.0"
Using alternative command 4
Response (0x09 (ACCEPTED)) received 7 bytes
09 48 7c e7 04 00 1d
Calling tranport release
Called tranport release
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>

***********
I don't see in your repsonse the "Response (0x09 (ACCEPTED)) received 7 bytes" which I can only assume that means the box ack'd the channel change but it doesn't change - now.

[MeInMaui]

Brent,

Check in device manager to see if you have actually applied the firewire drivers to your STB. I didn't see that you did that in your procedure above.

There will probably be several items related to your STB that have question marks. Try installing drivers for each of them (pointing to your firewire directory). I think you will be able to successfully install drivers for two of them. The rest you can disable.

Aloha,
Mike

[Brent]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Brent,

Check in device manager to see if you have actually applied the firewire drivers to your STB. I didn't see that you did that in your procedure above.

There will probably be several items related to your STB that have question marks. Try installing drivers for each of them (pointing to your firewire directory). I think you will be able to successfully install drivers for two of them. The rest you can disable.

Aloha,
Mike

Actually I did install the drivers and it shows them in device manager as 4250 HD (not HDC like I have). I just failed to put that in my post above - I've now added that step as #10 in the post above.

So I don't know if it's a problem with the drivers which say their for the 4250HD when I have the 4250 HDC or its just my cable box.

Something else thats strange is that the cmd window shows "4300" as the device.

[devries]

****New Successful Update at End of this Post****

Originally Posted by montgomeryt

I followed the same instructions minus the Graphing software - just needed channeling changing.
Here is my output and keep in mind I have the SA3250:

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>channel -v 2 29
Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
Device 2 Channel 29 Timeout 100 Dec 0
1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_3250hd&typ_5&id_0#92fe
00921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
2 "AVC Panel Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'

UniqueID '92fe921600'
VendorID '1692'
ModelID 'be0'
VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
ModelText 'Explorer(R) 3250HD'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_3250hd&typ_9&id_0#92fe
00921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 1
3 'Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI II Capture'
"@devicenp:\\?\pci#ven_4444&dev_0016&subsys_80030070&rev_01#4&2af9ed5&0&20f0#{
65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\{9b365890-165f-11d0-a195-0020afd156e4}" 0
Device Id "Device Version "2.1.0"
Using alternative command 4
Response (0x09 (ACCEPTED)) received 7 bytes
09 48 7c e7 04 00 1d
Calling tranport release
Called tranport release
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>

***********
I don't see in your repsonse the "Response (0x09 (ACCEPTED)) received 7 bytes" which I can only assume that means the box ack'd the channel change but it doesn't change - now.

I have tried to get a 4240HDC or a 8240HDC to channel change, but neither works though I can get both of these STBs to accept this command (see just below this paragraph) without errors. It just does not change the channels??? There are 2 Firewire ports on the back of each unit. Does it matter which port is used when installing the software, etc.? Neither port worked for me. Anyone know what to do to get this working???

TIA, deVries

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>Channel -v -f -a:4 2 22
Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
Device 2 Channel 22 Timeout 100 Dec 0
1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_5&id_0#d8209f
ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
2 "AVC Panel Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'

UniqueID 'd8209fea1c00'
VendorID '1cea'
ModelID '10cc'
VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
ModelText 'Explorer(R) 4300'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_9&id_0#d8209f
ea1c00#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
3 'Adaptec USB Capture Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\usb#vid_03f3&pid_0091#015450002383#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a
0c9223196}\capture" 0
4 'Adaptec USB Capture Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\usb#vid_03f3&pid_0093#025450002383#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a
0c9223196}\capture" 0
5 'Cirrus Logic USB-DVR2 Source'
"@device:sw:{860BB310-5D01-11D0-BD3B-00A0C911CE86}\Cirrus Logic USB-DVR2 Source"
0
Device Id "Device Version "2.1.0"
Using alternative command 0
Response (0x09 (ACCEPTED)) received 7 bytes
09 48 7c 67 04 00 16
Calling tranport release
Called tranport release
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>


********************************************************

First Update: Great news! I got the 4240HDC ( or 4240 4250 4240HD 4250HD <- fyi, keyword search help ) to change channels with some lucky troubleshooting. I will post here below the possible troubleshooting variables to try to get yours to work too. I suspect this will work for other STB too such as 8240 ( or 8240HDC 8240HD 8300 8300HD ).

Second Update: I should note that I've only gotten channel changing to work with timmmoore's channel.exe or channelw.exe on the command line. I'm having trouble finalizing this with Sage actually changing the channels. I've studied all the recommended guides but something is not set right in Sage or my Windows settings.

I think this should work since I've gotten this far, but I'm at an impasse now. Anyone interested in helping out with some ideas/suggestions?

Brent, did you try this command? ... channel -f -a:4 x yyy (x is your AVC panel number) (y is your channel number to test)

I entered channel -f -a:4 2 22 ... this works! I did have to unplug my Firewire cable and move it to the other Firewire port after rebooting while my computer was on & STB on too. I heard my usual computer beep sound it gives when it finds new hardware. My drivers were already installed, so it just recognized & installed. It has always channel changed since then, but only from the command line.

The challenge now is to get it to work in Sage!

********************************************************

[bonoman]

FYI...I upgraded my sage to the latest beta:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32648

HUGE quality difference in all my STB channels. All of them come in MUCH clearer and the annoying blocky resolution is gone. I also upgraded the box to SP3, but doubt that was the factor why.

Anyone else notice this? This is so cool. My STB picture is almost as good as 720i now. So awesome!

[Opus4]

I've been having problems getting the channel to change on my 4250HD too, but after I had a long reply typed up with a few questions, I realized that on this line:

Originally Posted by devries

I entered channel -f -a:4 2 22 ... this works!

The command should actually be:
channel -f -a4 <Device Number> <Channel Number>

There is no colon after the -a parameter. When I removed the colon, the channel change worked. Now that the basics are working, the next step is to try to get it to work in SageTV... (done; that works too.)

------------------
Edit, BTW: the firestb download here was dead.

The drivers from timmmoore's directions wouldn't install for the 4250HD.

The drivers from this site worked: STB Firewire Drivers for Windows Vista/XP/MCE

- Andy

[Opus4]

I've talked to a couple poeple who are interested in more details about changing channels on the SA 4250HD via firewire, so in case there are others, I'll post what I did.

I loosely based my firewire setup on these downloadable instructions from MeInMaui. (I say loosely because I didn't remove any existing tuners before setting up the new ones & changed the order of how I did things.)

1. The first thing I did was to do a complete image backup of my system & application drives.
   
   
2. The ExeMultiTuner plugin was downloaded & installed in the server's <SageTV install path>\Common folder.
   
   
3. Firewire drivers were found as part of (1) timmmoore's directions and (2) this site: STB Firewire Drivers for Windows Vista/XP/MCE. I had better luck with the drivers from that 2nd link, but I just realized that I did not try the Vista version of the drivers from timmmoore's site. Maybe that would have worked, but the regular firestb.msi file from timmmoore would not install the drivers for my 4250HD.
   
   Don't forget: you still need the firestb.msi (or Vista version) intaller from timmmoore's site for the channel changing program, even if you get the firewire drivers from the 2nd site I listed.
   
   In order to install firestb.msi on Windows XP instead of MCE, I used the instructions from this post, which said to use this command line:
   msiexec /i firestb.msi IDENT="1"
   
   When using channel.exe, be sure to pay attention to the Panel Device number(s) for your STBs -- sending some other device number to channel.exe could BSOD Windows... I did it to see what would happen & Windows instantly crashed. You may not want to be as curious as I was. Or, better yet, use the device's unique ID instead.
   
   
4. As mentioned in my previous post: using channel.exe did not work, at first. After trying the -f -a paramters listed above my previous post, I Googled the 4250HD & found that the colon should not be part of the parameter. This works for my 4250HD:
   channel -f -a4 <Device Number> <Channel Number>
   or:
   Channel –f –a4 –n <Device ID> <Channel Number>
   
   Update: Oct 29, 2008, changed to:
   Channel –f –a6 –n <Device ID> <Channel Number>
   
   
5. Deviating from MeInMaui's instructions, I created the EXEMultiTunerPlugin #.ir files before configuring the tuners. They should be placed in the <SageTV install path>\Common\RemoteCodes\EXEMultiTunerPlugin folder. (Note that the subfolder is named 'EXEMultiTunerPlugin', not 'EXEMultiTuner'; the PDF used the wrong folder name at the time of this post.) This might allow choosing the proper device code number during the source setup; if not, you should be able to set it in Source Details later, instead of manaully editing the properties file.
   
   The registry setting for EXEMultiTunerPlugin was configured per MeInMaui's instructions, changing the file path as needed & adding the parameters needed for the 4250HD.
   
   
6. I already knew which tuner & STB were which, so I simply proceeded to configure the sources & enable the channels I wanted.

SageTV was able to change the channel on both of my STBs via firewire after that.

I haven't yet played with any settings to see if the channel change speed could be improved.


Finally: as many other people in this thread have said -- "thanks" to all those who have done this before & documented what needed to be done.

- Andy

[m1abrams]

Quick question, since Firewire supports daisy chaining and the SA4350HD does have 2 firewire ports on them is it possible to daisy chain 2 of them to 1 firewire port on the PC?

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by m1abrams

Quick question, since Firewire supports daisy chaining and the SA4350HD does have 2 firewire ports on them is it possible to daisy chain 2 of them to 1 firewire port on the PC?

That's the way I have my 2 SA3250HD's set up.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

That's the way I have my 2 SA3250HD's set up.

Thanks! I saw 2 firewire ports on the thing, but didn't even think of trying that. I happened to have a firewire hub laying around & used that -- I'll try chaining them together next time I play around on that machine.

- Andy

[evilpenguin]

Are you guys recording from these boxes or just channel changing?