STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[btrcp2000]

okay, found some info on setting the delays in the pdfs. Usually, when I first start sage, the first tuning of an stb channel is successful. The ssecond usually results in a long wait watching the spinning circle, then a playback error (-4,o0x80040111) "problem rendering the video portion for playback".

i'm with kirby, it seems like it doesn't follow the exact same process each time i change channels.

[btrcp2000]

bah, i'm so close I could puke. My stb (motorola 6416) changes channels perfectly every single time i select something in sage. It spits out a positively gorgeous picture, no blocking/pixelation/etc, when it gets that far. But usually, I just get the spinning circle for a minute or two, then a video playback error. I have messed with the delays in SGR as well as the one in sage.properties in various directions, but I just can't get it to work more than once in a row.

How can sage not be picking up the same video signal that vlc can without fail??

[ke6guj]

firewire capture off my 6200 is similar. About 50% of the time, I can watch Live tv off of it. the other 50% of the time, it is the spinning circle. If I then wait until the recording is over, the recording is usually watchable.

I haven't messed with tracking down the problem, but If I had to guess, my problem started around the time I added my HDHR to the system.

[btrcp2000]

If this is as good as it gets, this wasn't worth the effort. My recordings aren't working well, although that is probably fixable. I was really hoping to be able to use live tv so I can watch football on either hdtv we have, but still have everything consolidated through sage. i wonder if r5000 is more reliable either thru dish or cable?

[virtually_john]

I've read most of this thread and have an "immediate" question if anyone can make a recommendation...

Current Config:
Windows XP SP2 (brand new install)
2.5 ghz p4
4 gig ram
ATI X800 All-In-Wonder
ATI TV Wonder 650
SB Audigy 2
Moto DCT 6412

I have everything working up to the graphdump file playable in windows media player 11.

I've never installed SageTV nor do I know anything about it, but of course, I'd love to use this PC as a PVR as described in this (super long) thread.

Which "version" of SageTV do I download?
Media Center (V6.2 for Windows)
Placeshifter (v6.2 for Windows)
Client (v6.2 for Windows)

I'm thinking its probably Media Center, but I'm unsure and would rather get confirmation before I download it.

Thanks

-j

[btrcp2000]

start with media center. the others are to allow you to view/control from other places.

[virtually_john]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

start with media center. the others are to allow you to view/control from other places.

Thank you.

[virtually_john]

I've got this all set up and have video in sagetv without issue. (the instructions are great! thanks for publishing them!).

My only question now is how to rid my system of the "choppy" video and sound while viewing HD channels. I installed everything "default" and followed all instructions "perfectly" Is there a way to "change" the SageTV decoder or do something "else" to prevent the choppiness? (hd .ts files play without choppiness in Windows Media Player).

My system:
Windows XP SP2 (brand new install)
2.5 ghz p4
4 gig ram
ATI X800 All-In-Wonder
ATI TV Wonder 650
SB Audigy 2
Moto DCT 6412

Thanks again

-j

[btrcp2000]

answers to all your questions can be found using the search feature. search for vmr9 stuttering and you'll find a thread that helped me.

[virtually_john]

yes, search is our friend when you know what to search for. I weeded through "choppy" for hours without coming up with anything. Thank you for providing more "proper" search terms. Looks like I've solved my only problem.

[Diginerd]

Mac Firewire Network Encoder with PC server (Multiple STBS!)

If you’ve been struggling with getting firewire recording to work properly get yourself a $200 crusty Mac and watch in amazement how beautifully this works.. N

o graphs, and MUCH more capable thn the Timmoore drivers (Scroll to end for details). Also works with SageTV under Vista.

1. Download: http://www.hugolyppens.com/docs/Sage...orkEncoder.zip

2. Follow Guho’s Instructions http://www.hugolyppens.com/SageTVFir...rkEncoder.html , making sure that ALL your sage recording directories are mapped in netinfo..

The following will let the encoders launch on boot, and not create any windows..

Create an apple script containing the following:-

do shell script "/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/MacOS/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder --configfile /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder//Device0.txt &> /dev/null &"

do shell script "/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/MacOS/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder --configfile /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder//Device1.txt &> /dev/null &"

do shell script "/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/MacOS/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder --configfile /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder//Device2.txt &> /dev/null &"

do shell script "/Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/MacOS/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder --configfile /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder//Device3.txt &> /dev/null &"

and add to Logon Items under user accounts so it launches on startup (Also set it to automatically log in this account). This lets you run headless.. ;-)

if you want text file logging replace /dev/null on each line with /SomeDir/Somepaht/LogfileDEV#.txt (I leave it to the reader to work out the details per STB)

If you add "Remote Desktops" under the Sharing Preference pane you can get access to the mac using VNC, if you enable SSH you can have a command line too if you are so inclined..

Contents of the 4 files called above (Each stored in /Applications/SageTVFirewireNetworkEncoder/ ) :-

Filename: Device0.txt

portnumber=6969
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=12000
directoryprefixmap=M:|/Network/SageRecordingsA,N:|/Network/SageRecordingsB
poweroffdelay=120000000
device=0

Filename: Device1.txt

portnumber=6970
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=12000
directoryprefixmap=M:|/Network/SageRecordingsA,N:|/Network/SageRecordingsB
poweroffdelay=120000000
device=1

Filename: Device2.txt

portnumber=6971
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=12000
directoryprefixmap=M:|/Network/SageRecordingsA,N:|/Network/SageRecordingsB
poweroffdelay=120000000
device=2

Filename: Device3.txt

portnumber=6972
channelchangemethod=scientific-atlanta
channelchangedelay=12000
directoryprefixmap=M:|/Network/SageRecordingsA,N:|/Network/SageRecordingsB
poweroffdelay=120000000
device=3


Stop all SageTV processes and then add the following to Sage.properties, substituting 192.168.2.253 with the numeric address of your mac:-

Right after the line
mmc/video_format_code=1
Paste the following (Without the comment lines, beginning #):-

# For device 0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/brightness=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/contrast=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=false
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/hue=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/last_channel=737
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/provider_id=
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/saturation=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/sharpness=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/tuning_mode=Cable
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/12348/100/0/video_crossbar_type=100
mmc/encoders/12348/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/12348/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/12348/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12348/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/12348/broadcast_standard=ATSC
mmc/encoders/12348/capture_config=0
mmc/encoders/12348/default_device_quality=
mmc/encoders/12348/device_class=
mmc/encoders/12348/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/12348/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/12348/encoding_host=192.168.2.253\:6969
mmc/encoders/12348/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/12348/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/12348/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/12348/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/12348/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/12348/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/12348/video_capture_device_name=SA4200HD1
mmc/encoders/12348/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12348/video_compressor=
mmc/encoders/12348/video_encoding_params=Best
mmc/encoders/12348/video_processor=

# For device 1
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/brightness=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/contrast=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=false
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/hue=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/last_channel=737
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/provider_id=
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/saturation=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/sharpness=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/tuning_mode=Cable
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/12350/100/0/video_crossbar_type=100
mmc/encoders/12350/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/12350/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/12350/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12350/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/12350/broadcast_standard=ATSC
mmc/encoders/12350/capture_config=0
mmc/encoders/12350/default_device_quality=
mmc/encoders/12350/device_class=
mmc/encoders/12350/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/12350/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/12350/encoding_host=192.168.2.253\:6970
mmc/encoders/12350/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/12350/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/12350/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/12350/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/12350/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/12350/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/12350/video_capture_device_name=SA4200HD1
mmc/encoders/12350/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12350/video_compressor=
mmc/encoders/12350/video_encoding_params=Best
mmc/encoders/12350/video_processor=

# For device 2
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/brightness=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/contrast=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=false
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/hue=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/last_channel=737
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/provider_id=
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/saturation=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/sharpness=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/tuning_mode=Cable
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/12352/100/0/video_crossbar_type=100
mmc/encoders/12352/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/12352/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/12352/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12352/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/12352/broadcast_standard=ATSC
mmc/encoders/12352/capture_config=0
mmc/encoders/12352/default_device_quality=
mmc/encoders/12352/device_class=
mmc/encoders/12352/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/12352/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/12352/encoding_host=192.168.2.253\:6971
mmc/encoders/12352/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/12352/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/12352/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/12352/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/12352/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/12352/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/12352/video_capture_device_name=SA4200HD2
mmc/encoders/12352/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12352/video_compressor=
mmc/encoders/12352/video_encoding_params=Best
mmc/encoders/12352/video_processor=

# For device 3
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/brightness=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/contrast=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=false
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/hue=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/last_channel=737
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/provider_id=
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/saturation=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/sharpness=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/tuning_mode=Cable
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/12354/100/0/video_crossbar_type=100
mmc/encoders/12354/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/12354/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/12354/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12354/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/12354/broadcast_standard=ATSC
mmc/encoders/12354/capture_config=0
mmc/encoders/12354/default_device_quality=
mmc/encoders/12354/device_class=
mmc/encoders/12354/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/12354/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/12354/encoding_host=192.168.2.253\:6972
mmc/encoders/12354/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/12354/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/12354/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/12354/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/12354/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/12354/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/12354/video_capture_device_name=SA4200HD3
mmc/encoders/12354/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12354/video_compressor=
mmc/encoders/12354/video_encoding_params=Best
mmc/encoders/12354/video_processor=

In a nutshell you’re creating unique device numbers (they’re arbitrary, pick what you like) and incrementing port numbers on the encoding server.

Assuming you’ve followed Guho’s instructions, paying close attention to the drive mapping section then you should be golden. I’m working on a clearer re-write of his instructions, and will post shortly.

Sorry mate, you write the MOST WONDEROUS code, but if the reader of your original instructions is not deeply familiar with the guts of OSX / Unix I think they’re a little tough to follow. Once this gets clear & ideally Frey talks to you about folding this into the main code we have the best software only PVR on the planet.. w00t!

Can you tell I love you, your code and this solution?! Oops. </end "Gushy love fest">

So, to be clear ALL credit for this needs to go to Guho. He’s a legend, and has hit the holygrail in no uncertain terms.

It’s safe to paste in all of the above even if you don’t have 4 STBs. A couple of extra listeners will be created, but sage will ignore any of them that don’t have a cable box connected. Sweet!

Oh, then launch sage and setup your sources as normal. All but 3 out of 400 odd channels works fine for me..

That includes 40 HDTV, 100 or so analog and 200ish encrypted (But not 5c’d) Digitals.

So what this give you:-
1. Multiple STBS. Check.
2. All Analog, 99.9% Digital and HDTV Check (Depending on 5c, which in my case is light, for the moment, gawd blessem’!)
3. Full Live TV flawlessly! CHECK!
4. No issues! CHECK. CHECK CHECK!
5. Also, no need for any additional hardware beyond the Mac, firewire cables and a firewire hub (If you’re heading north of 2 STBs).

That’s right. No IR blasters, and all oh so very very easy.

It works with a lowly G4 400Mhz running 10.4 as the network encoder (Guho consider that validation of your fat binary compilation).

I have had the above running 24/7 for the last 10 days, and once I worked out a couple of channels were miserable I have only had a handful of recordings that were not 100% perfect (like 2 out of 400+ Tuner hours).

I still have my HD HomeRun configured too (6 HDTV tuners total!), but it’s really redundant… Anyone want to buy it off me?!

By doing this it’s pretty much equivalent of M$’s 4 cable card box for vista they announced, but without the DRM woes. Much cheaper too, even with the mac..

For kicks I may rent 8 boxes from the cableco one weekend and set it up as I’m 100% sure it will work, and it would be a nice flag at the top of the mountain for the Sage Community. 4 STBs chews less than 10% CPU on the PC serv & the Mac. For beyond 4 boxes though gigabit becomes a neccesity (Mac has it by defualt). 4 STBs does just fine with 100Mbit though.

See my other post over in the Sage on Mac forum about how to get this running in a Mac only environment.

It’s all very cookie cut as Guho did such an excellent job. All I’m doing is documenting this amazing tool.
Top Man!

[btrcp2000]

i know squat about macs, but this has me intrigued due to the live hd element (just posted about it somewhere around here). Any reason not to just put the whole mess on a (obviously more powerful) mac? Do MVPs work?

[Diginerd]

Out of the box macs have limited support for many of the things we take for granted (Comm Skip for one), the remote support is patchy too.. However, if you have in intel Mac then Parallels works really nicely, runing a Host PC for comskip, ipodifier etc). I'm working on a freeware commskip VM, but that's a way off (If ever)..

Adding a mac as a network encoder is cake though and no need to throw away your existing system. If you want to move then the Mac Mini running OSX natively as the encoder, and SageTV running under parallels is a pretty tasty single box solution if you're used to windows.

If you're not wedded toWindows, then SageTV on the Mac natively is shiny too.

My PC server is running on a 6750 dual core, with an nvidia 8500GS graphics card. Running to an MVP works fine, but I've not tried the MVP & onboard video at the same time, that may be ugly (CPU constraint).

HD extenders will ease the CPU bottleneck on the sage server.

[btrcp2000]

diginerd-

What specs/model am I looking for? are all g4s the same? (showing my mac ignorance here...)

Found this locally but it's gibberish. are the mirror doors like the ones in my closet?:

apple PowerMac G4 Dual 1.25GHz (DDR-Mirror Door) (M8840LL/A, M8570


thanks for your help, but you should know you've created a monster over here as I have been tearing my hair out trying to accomplish this for weeks...

must go to bed now before i get myself in too deep tonight

[Diginerd]

That's a very nice mac, but total overkill for adding as an encoder. If you want the mac to be the one stop shop you need to buy a current, new machine.

As an encoder a 500MHz G4 will do. Just got a buddy (Also a PC head with no mac experience) such a machine to bolt onto his rig. You can prolly go even lower, but say with the G4 range and avoid G3 and below.

Something like this will do you (You need to add OSX 10.4):-

http://www.powermax.com/parts/show/c-u61357

The specs are modest, but the results are not.

I am in no way affiliated, nor reccomend powermax, but it should give you an idea of price and where you need to look in terms of specs for an ENCODER. There is no way this will play back HD itself, though a modern Intel Mini + SageTV for Mac will do you nicely on its own as a one stop shop.

[guho]

Originally Posted by Diginerd

Mac Firewire Network Encoder with PC server (Multiple STBS!)

It’s all very cookie cut as Guho did such an excellent job. All I’m doing is documenting this amazing tool.
Top Man!

Diginerd, many thanks for the glowing commentary, which made my day. Glad to hear you got so many cable boxes working using my firewire network encoder. I think for many people the best advice is to add a new Mac Mini to their setups as it can serve double duty as firewire encoder and HD extender. I just got a 1.83GHz Core2Duo Mac Mini for this purpose. It is less than $600 ($563 with EPP discount and free printer of up to $100) and many of the used G4 macs sell for over $200, which is a lot considering their age and cpu power. I actually spent a lot of time on ebay trying to acquire a G4 for $100-$200 and it is hard. Also you will get Leopard OS with the new mini. The only thing is that I am having trouble enjoying SageTV (thru placeshifter with no transcoding over wired 100Mbit Ethernet) in full screen as it seems to drop half the frames and neither 1080i nor 720p recordings play back smoothly in full screen (but in a window it is fine). This is in 1920x1080 60Hz to a 46" Sharp LCD. If I drop the resolution to 1366x768 it is fine. If anyone could help me out with this: great. I am already working with Sage support they asked for log files, which I will give them soon. BTW VLC can play back the 1080i recordings smoothly. 720p also stutters a tiny bit in VLC, which is showing some dropped frames.

[btrcp2000]

Some quick questions before I pull the trigger on my first mac:

I like the idea of getting a decent one to also be used as an extender, so I can go headless. I am fortunate to have a little computer dungeon (wife calls it my "panic room") in the basement directly under the living room tv, so I can have ugly and noisy stuff. What is a good model mac other than the mini that will serve as an extender/firewire encoder, can I go cheaper? Or conversely, since i'm not space limited, is there any benefit to a larger system? Mini is fine, but I thought it's worth asking before I move.

Can the encoder be put to sleep and woken up by the sage server for firewire recordings?

Main concern of mine is live tuning, and I have heard that even the r5000 can be finicky and take 10 seconds plus. How is channel changing with a mac encoder? Doesn't have to be perfect, but I want to know what to expect.

Diginerd mentioned that macs are finicky with remotes. I am currently controlling with a harmony 990 and usb/uirt. Will that work?

thanks!

[guho]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Some quick questions before I pull the trigger on my first mac:

...

Main concern of mine is live tuning, and I have heard that even the r5000 can be finicky and take 10 seconds plus. How is channel changing with a mac encoder? Doesn't have to be perfect, but I want to know what to expect.

Diginerd mentioned that macs are finicky with remotes. I am currently controlling with a harmony 990 and usb/uirt. Will that work?

thanks!

You could get a mac off ebay or build a MacOSx86 PC with an old Pentium-M laptop (must have firewire port of course!).

The Mac Mini's included remote is very minimal in functionality. I use an Adesso Slimtouch wireless keyboard/touchpad instead, which is stylish and works great. Only $72 on buy.com w/GCO. It addresses all my needs and is more versatile than just a remote control.

Live tuning is fine but limited by the channel change delay you configured so it takes about 10 seconds on my SA4200HD. SageTV chokes when a channel change occurs in a stream that it is playing back so the channel change delay needs to be long enough to cover it. Experimentation is a must. Otherwise, LiveTV is flawless with this setup.

[btrcp2000]

Holy crapola I got my firewire tuner working for live and recording!!!!!

Didn't have to actually add a mac to the setup, but I got some ideas out of this conversation. It seems like none of the documentation recommended setting the tuner delay in SGR any higher than 7500 as I recall. Well, even the most stable setups including guho's mac and people with r5000 all seemed to think that it was about a ten second delay. Sure enough, I set it to 10000, and I was able to flip channels back and forth at will (minus ten seconds), both sd and hd.

Kept testing and found out that 8000 works for me, but I get the eternal spinning circle anywhere south of there. Go figure I gave up a few weeks ago at 7500. This works for live tv, and scheduled recording.

I changed some other things over time in sage.properties and in the sgr.ini, if any needs more specific info out of my setup, let me know. My stb is a motorola 6416 via time warner.


woooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more up until 1am unless I'm actually WATCHING sage instead of tweaking it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ke6guj]

thanks for the info. I just checked my sgr.ini file and it was set to 0000, funny how it worked for a year that way and now started acting up. I upped it to 5000, and it looked good in testing. I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes.