STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[jphhughes]

I wanted to give this a try however when I tried to collect all the bits and pieces the AV/C tuner driver link is broken. I am using the link from spacegoast installation document. Anyone know an alternate way to get these drivers? Thanks.

[mangriotis]

I haven't seen anyone else with this problem. I will explain as best I can.

My setup: AMD 2500+, ATI9200, using Sage 6, SageMC (6.3.1), 512MB Ram, and nVidia Decoder v223, running Overlay.

On HD recordings for 24 and LOST, I run across stuttering issues when these shows are going to commercial, i.e. when the clock comes on it stutters severely, and also when the "LOST" graphic starts fading into the screen...

The reason I post it in this thread is because it only happens on dumped HD recordings from my DCT-6200.

I thought maybe it was due to nVidia codec (Smart vs. Automatic) but that seems to have no effect.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Ted@TNT]

Mike,

Well, my new Home Theatre PC which I installed last night was apparently not quite ready for prime time. FireWire channel changing works generally about 4 or five times in a row, even back and forth between the two cable boxes, and then simply stops responding.

Closing SageTV and restarting SageTV seem to revive it - for the next few channel changes.

I figure if I can write a piece of code that will log channel changes, and after three of them send an Alt+F4 to SageTV to kill it and then relaunch it, I should be in good shape. What do you think?

Any thoughts?

edit - sometimes I get no channels changed, sometimes one or two. I look at the properties file, and occasionally the "device name=" property has been deleted! I put it back (when Sage is shutdown) and save it and it stays for a while.

I think there is a ghost in my machine.

[scoful]

Originally Posted by UFGrayMatter

My Picture stutters, steps, is pixelated, BUT my CPU is low. I don't know what it is. Could it be filters? Anybody experience this and get rid of it w/ a better graph setup?

I'm dying to record 24 in HD!

thanks,
Ryan

Ryan - the filter that appears to work best for me comes straight out of the Tuner Device to the Dump.TS file. Be sure to use the dump filter that is included in SGraphRecorder (SGRDump?) - it sends information back to SGraphRecorder. My system had another dump filter on it that caused me a great deal of grief. Also be sure to use the .TS file extension - not .MPG (Sage seems to handle it better that way).

Of further note - don't run Sage as a service. It will play back smoothly for a while then goes to super choppy.....

I think we need to get this thread updated. Spaceghost's instructions were great, but several things have since changed. It's actually a lot easier to do now. I spent a lot of time chasing down a Muxer filter I really didn't need.

It would also be nice if someone could package up the components of this and put them in the downloads section. The only component that may be a problem would be the Tuner drivers - I'm not sure what the distribution rights are there....

[scoful]

Has anyone set this up with more than one Firewire box on the same machine?
I know the tuner control supports multiple addresses, and I presume I can setup another copy of SGraphRecorder with a different port number.
My Hauppauge tuners appear twice in GraphEdit, so I presume another Motorola would be there after I connect it?

[UFGrayMatter]

Originally Posted by scoful

Ryan - the filter that appears to work best for me comes straight out of the Tuner Device to the Dump.TS file. Be sure to use the dump filter that is included in SGraphRecorder (SGRDump?) - it sends information back to SGraphRecorder. My system had another dump filter on it that caused me a great deal of grief. Also be sure to use the .TS file extension - not .MPG (Sage seems to handle it better that way).

Of further note - don't run Sage as a service. It will play back smoothly for a while then goes to super choppy.....

I think we need to get this thread updated. Spaceghost's instructions were great, but several things have since changed. It's actually a lot easier to do now. I spent a lot of time chasing down a Muxer filter I really didn't need.

It would also be nice if someone could package up the components of this and put them in the downloads section. The only component that may be a problem would be the Tuner drivers - I'm not sure what the distribution rights are there....

I only have test.grf in my sgraphrecorder directory (+tstops) - any change you can PM me the graph you use so i can see?

[Ted@TNT]

 Well, my new Home Theatre PC which I installed last night was apparently not quite ready for prime time.  FireWire channel changing works generally about 4 or five times in a row, even back and forth between the two cable boxes, and then simply stops responding.

Closing SageTV and restarting SageTV seem to revive it - for the next few channel changes.

Hmmmm. Well, I can't explain it, but it seems to be working. I played with it for a little last night, then watched it tune to a channel to record by itself. This AM, saw it had recorded another show successfully. Tuned about 30 channels in manually - worked every time - either box.

I'm happy it's finally working - but WHY?!

Oh well, I guess I'll just enjoy it!

[PhillJones]

Originally Posted by wado1971

I posted this question in the hardware section without response - hopefully it's more relevant here.

I've got the firewire HD working Very excited / thanks to all - now a question.

I have only one (1) STB and have two (2) outputs (one firewire and one S-Video-to-pvr150). Channel lineups are from different cities which works well. Now the problem is that sagetv doesn't realize that the two inputs are from a single source and will change the channel on the STB (s-video) while recording via firewire - or vis-versa.

Is there a way to tell sage that 'IF' the pvr150 is recording 'THEN' make the firewire busy? How is this issue dealt with?

thanks

Did this problem ever get fixed?

I've just gotten Sage back up and running after giving up on it about 6 months ago due to problems with the media library and HD recording. Since I got a new HDD I figured I'd give it another try.

It's not till I reread some of these posts that I realized this fundamental problem. You can't record from the same box using two different inputs because sage can't be told to only record one show at a time.

Did anybody ever find a workaround? So I guess I just have to be careful not to schedule overlapping SD and HD programs?

Another question. The recorded HD content is kind of washed out as if the brightness has been turned up and the contrast turned down. I tried correcting it just by altering the settings on my TV but I didn't help. Content over s-video is kind of dark already so I need to tweak it in a source specific way.

[scoful]

Originally Posted by PhillJones

Did this problem ever get fixed?

I've just gotten Sage back up and running after giving up on it about 6 months ago due to problems with the media library and HD recording. Since I got a new HDD I figured I'd give it another try.

It's not till I reread some of these posts that I realized this fundamental problem. You can't record from the same box using two different inputs because sage can't be told to only record one show at a time.

Did anybody ever find a workaround? So I guess I just have to be careful not to schedule overlapping SD and HD programs?

Another question. The recorded HD content is kind of washed out as if the brightness has been turned up and the contrast turned down. I tried correcting it just by altering the settings on my TV but I didn't help. Content over s-video is kind of dark already so I need to tweak it in a source specific way.

Is there some reason you can't just record everything Firewire (Content Protection?)? The stream quality is much better than re-encoding through the PVR-XXX.

As far as the PVR-XXX being dark and washed out - you can adjust the input through Source Setup. I believe the menu says 'Color Calibration' - brightness and contrast can be adjusted there.

[PhillJones]

Originally Posted by scoful

Is there some reason you can't just record everything Firewire (Content Protection?)? The stream quality is much better than re-encoding through the PVR-XXX.

As far as the PVR-XXX being dark and washed out - you can adjust the input through Source Setup. I believe the menu says 'Color Calibration' - brightness and contrast can be adjusted there.

Yeah several channels are 5c encrypted.

It seems to me that tying two sources together should be trivial. Not trivial enough for the likes of me, you understand.

Thanks for the tip about source setup. Tonight I'll try changing the settings on the graphics card to make the firewire channels look good then go into the source setup to calibrate the capture card. At least that part sounds like a plan.

[scoful]

The firewire source cannot be calibrated (it is a raw mpeg stream and should be as correct as your cable company can make it). I would suggest calibrating the Hauppauge source to match it, then tweak your graphics drivers and/or monitor from there.

[PhillJones]

Originally Posted by scoful

The firewire source cannot be calibrated (it is a raw mpeg stream and should be as correct as your cable company can make it). I would suggest calibrating the Hauppauge source to match it, then tweak your graphics drivers and/or monitor from there.

That's what I meant, only in reverse order I tried tweaking the monitor to no avail so the calibration needs to be done at the graphics card output stage. That's all in hand now.

The only sticking points now are source exclusivity and as I discovered yesterday I can't watch one HD pre-recorded show while recording another as it stutters badly and I certainly can't watch a show from the beginning that's already started it just can't seem to do it.

After I got my new dedicated sata HDD for recording I'd hoped this problem would be fixed. It's so frustrating that I still can't make it work right, I can't remember how long I've been trying, it must be over a year now off an on and I don't even want to work out how much I've spent on this.

[scoful]

Originally Posted by PhillJones

After I got my new dedicated sata HDD for recording I'd hoped this problem would be fixed. It's so frustrating that I still can't make it work right, I can't remember how long I've been trying, it must be over a year now off an on and I don't even want to work out how much I've spent on this.

Did you format your drive with 64k blocks?
I don't think I've had a problem playing back a pre-recorded HD show while recording another.
What is your video card? That made a HUGE difference in my playback quality.
Nvidia does have a page on their website that shows what cards have MPEG, H.264, De-interlacing features integrated, etc.
My client has a fair video card in it, and seems to do OK with HD playback - except my controls become VERY sluggish (it is a pretty slow computer anyway).

[Ted@TNT]

For those of you using firewire with your STB's for video and not just channel changing, what types of channels are you getting. Are you only getting the networks and a handful of others, everything but premium channels everything including the premiums you pay for?

I'm trying to weight the benefits, and I'm already getting the "free and clear" channels via the HD Homerun.

Thanks for your input.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Ted@TNT

For those of you using firewire with your STB's for video and not just channel changing, what types of channels are you getting. Are you only getting the networks and a handful of others, everything but premium channels everything including the premiums you pay for?

I'm trying to weight the benefits, and I'm already getting the "free and clear" channels via the HD Homerun.

Thanks for your input.

Right now, I get every channel I subscribe to. With a motorola box, I get all my analog channels and all the digital channels, including the premium channels. Other people have gotten Nothing at all. YOu just have to hook it up and see what you get.

That could change anyday, and I'd be that day

[PhillJones]

Originally Posted by scoful

Did you format your drive with 64k blocks?
I don't think I've had a problem playing back a pre-recorded HD show while recording another.
What is your video card? That made a HUGE difference in my playback quality.
Nvidia does have a page on their website that shows what cards have MPEG, H.264, De-interlacing features integrated, etc.
My client has a fair video card in it, and seems to do OK with HD playback - except my controls become VERY sluggish (it is a pretty slow computer anyway).

I'm using 64k blocks and the partition is on a different drive to the OS. I've done some investigating and it seems that the old bug of sage not using the nVIDIA deocder when you tell it to was never fixed in version 5. I've set to default and I'm getting much better results.

In the meantime, I'm really interested in the idea of source exclusivity. I've posted in a couple of forums and nobody seems to know why it's not possible. Seems very odd to me.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by PhillJones

In the meantime, I'm really interested in the idea of source exclusivity. I've posted in a couple of forums and nobody seems to know why it's not possible. Seems very odd to me.

You mean using the same STB for 2 different sources, right? As you've been told in the past, SageTV doesn't support it, so it isn't possible. That's the main reason no one else has suggested a way to do it - there is no way to tell SageTV that the same STB is being used for multiple sources.

- Andy

[UFGrayMatter]

Ok here's a whopper (this post is in now way affliated w/ Burger King )of a problem.

I am trying to figure out a recording issue. While not technically a problem w/ Sage or this setup. SOMETHING IS WAY WRONG. I'm hoping somebody can point me in the right direction.

I can run Graphedit and see a pretty picture - but it's only 1 frame every 10 or so seconds.

If I record to a dump file, either .ts or .mpg I get this crap:



I can confirm that it is being recorded like this.

The picture through the cable box to the TV looks great.

I tried on both my TV Recording Drive (1 y/o Samsung SP250) and my OS Drive (Older WD) and get the same thing.

Advice?

Thanks,

Ryan

[scoful]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You mean using the same STB for 2 different sources, right? As you've been told in the past, SageTV doesn't support it, so it isn't possible. That's the main reason no one else has suggested a way to do it - there is no way to tell SageTV that the same STB is being used for multiple sources.

- Andy

Perhaps the best way to handle this (although this may be difficult to program) would be through an extension of the capabilities of Channel setup.
If you could merge both the encoder card and the firewire inputs and select the input on a per channel basis, encrypted channels could be captured, while unencrypted could be streamed.

It may actually be easier to integrate this into sgraphrecorder. If it supported two graphs (1 for each video source) and a channel list that could be edited, when you changed the channel it would switch to the appropriate graph.

On a side note - I seem to be having a great deal of difficulty with skipping on my TS streams - acts very erratic - skipping backwards instead of forwards sometimes. Anybody else seen this?
My graph is just Motorola Tuner -> Dump.ts

[scoful]

Originally Posted by UFGrayMatter

Ok here's a whopper (this post is in now way affliated w/ Burger King )of a problem.

I am trying to figure out a recording issue. While not technically a problem w/ Sage or this setup. SOMETHING IS WAY WRONG. I'm hoping somebody can point me in the right direction.

I can run Graphedit and see a pretty picture - but it's only 1 frame every 10 or so seconds.

If I record to a dump file, either .ts or .mpg I get this crap:



I can confirm that it is being recorded like this.

The picture through the cable box to the TV looks great.

I tried on both my TV Recording Drive (1 y/o Samsung SP250) and my OS Drive (Older WD) and get the same thing.

Advice?

Thanks,

Ryan

Ryan - does the recording look like this when played through another player or only in Sage?

If it looks fine from graphedit, perhaps it is a decoder problem in Sage.
If Windows Media Player (or something else) will play it, determine the decoder used by the player that works and try that configuration with Sage.