STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[DFA]

Travisbell:

What I do NOT see is this parameter which appears once Sage recognizes a network encoder:

videoframe/network_encoding_to_playback_delay=####

Frey made a change to the specs on network encoding somewhere along the 2.x.y developement line as I understand it. However, I do not know where the break is. Anders knows because he had to do an update on the DVB application. In other words, 2.1.10 rev. could be an issue but just not sure. You might read through some of the "DVB Support" thread and find the posts that discuss this.

I will look at your "sage.properties" file some more.

DFA

[travisbell]

Removed the line, still nothing.

I still get the playback error, which would explain why SGR never gets the command. If Sage itself can't even play it, then we're hooped.

I am using Sage 2.1.10! I wonder if 2.2 beta would fix my issues. I just downloaded this off their site, and didn't even know of a beta. Took a quick look around, where can I download 2.2 beta? There was some talk about a 2.2 beta right? I am not off my rocker....

Let me know guys, you have been very helpful!

[AndersNolberger]

The big change in the network protocol where some time in the betas of 2.0. Later there has been some additions to the protocol but that is not the problem here.

Sage is not even sending commands to SGR. There must be something wrong with the channel setup. Sage knows about SGR and successfully sends the NOOP commands. that is like a ping to see that the recorder is started. But since no START command gets sent the error message in SAGE can indicate that Sage does not know what tuner to use to show the channel.

[DFA]

I concur with Anders. The problem lies somewhere in Sage config. Not SGR or graph. Current relsease of Sage is 2.2.4 beta and in my opinion is best release since 2.0.xy.

Trust me, it will work! Should work with 2.1.10 since Anders has pointed to the protocol change being around 2.0 era.

Since you are new to Sage and the SGR network encoder is somewhat of a more "advanced" use of Sage, you are taking on the whole enchilada! Keep hammering. 2.1.10 was the least of my favorites. I recommend you go to 2.2.4 and lets go from there. Install 2.2.4 on top of 2.1.10; no need to uninstall and preferably not.

Once you have an EPG assigned to the SGR encoder and in your case, only the SGR encoder, go to the "Live TV Guide" and pick a channel in the current Time block and select to view. Make sure STB is on channel known to work based on your graph testing. Also, check the STB diagnostics to make sure that it is not encrypted at this point in time for that show although this would not prevent Sage from sending a "start" command.

EDIT: The section of "sage.properties" I put up was 2.2.4 specific but also recall that I said it did not work for another member so better to consider it more an example than a bullet.

PS: Looks like you used the custom STB FW capture driver/INF package I put together. Work OK? I have not heard any feedback on this yet.

DFA

[travisbell]

OK guys, this worked FIRST TRY with the 2.2.4 beta. Damn! I didn't change a thing in my config file.

Well, she's working... now I am just experiencing the same kind of problems like you guys, 3 secs delay between channels being the most notable.

Good work guys! This is saweeet

[DArthur]

DFA -

Thanks much for all of your sluthing and hard work. This will be the "holy grail" for me if I can get this to work...

I set up a graph like you outlined, and it seems to capture just fine.


However, when I try and playback the captured file (either with TT2.0 or WMP) its very jerky/slow. The same capture with CapDVHS plays back fine. File sizes and image quality are comparable between the captures with CapDVHS and the graph. My system is an AMD64 3500+ with a BFG 6800 vid card.
I've tried this with several captures (both HD and SD) - same results.

Any ideas why playback is not smooth? What is the difference between the 2 type of captures?

Thanks,

Darryl

[DFA]

Travisbell:

Good to know that. Not sure why but just could be that the cut-and-paste is only good for 2.2.4, not that 2.1.10 won't work. I suspect there is a missing line item parameter that is needed by 2.1.10. Perhaps someone else can fill in the blank if not wanting to update to 2.2.4 yet.

Nothing that can be done about the FW latency for channel change. It is the nature of the STB beast it seems. However, there is an issue with Sage / SGR giving a start command to the graph before and while the TS stream is in transition. Hopefully, in the next few days, Anders will release an update that will give us a dot INI configuration param to add time delay to the "Start" command in order to accomodate the STB FW latency. This will be an important update to the SGR relative to its use for the STB FW application.

DFA

[DFA]

DArthur:

Sounds like a playback side issue. Check CPU consumption when playing back. Make sure you are not using VPP, ffdshow and are using DXVA. Something is over-taxed.

I found that WMP9 seems to use the same graph I have setup for Zoom which includes VPP and ffdshow. No good for HD MPEG2 clips.

When I was testing graph candidates, I put the test clips in the Sage Library folder, imported and tested that way. Again, forget about VPP. Ultimately, that's how and where (Sage) the files will be played so best place to test playback from me thinks.

DFA

[travisbell]

Just a real quick FYI -- I have had some problems playing the files back in Windows Media Player while in Sage or PowerDVD, the same file will playback absolutely fine.

Can't explain it, just an FYI

[DFA]

Travisbell:

Along the same lines as previous post, be advised that if you make channel changes directly to the STB instead of through Sage, you will introduce a big stream discontinuity that will cause a problem for playback of the file. This is in the context of the SGR update that is hopefully coming soon. Do you have USB-UIRT or some other blaster and Girder? You will likely need it before all is said and done.

The "Start delay" feature yet to be incorporated by Anders in the UNE will not only prevent the recording of an unplayable discontinuity in the file but will allow the use of other filters that otherwise will lock up on a stream transition. It appears from what I am seeing that a 2 to 3 second delay is needed to the starting of the graph to accomodate the FW channel change latency.

DFA

[travisbell]

Originally Posted by DFA

Travisbell:

Along the same lines as previous post, be advised that if you make channel changes directly to the STB instead of through Sage, you will introduce a big stream discontinuity that will cause a problem for playback of the file. This is in the context of the SGR update that is hopefully coming soon. Do you have USB-UIRT or some other blaster and Girder? You will likely need it before all is said and done.

DFA

After I get my guide setup properly, this was my next priority. The Sage MPEG2Dump doesn't handle stream changes nearly as well as the CyberLink dump. With the CyberLink dump I actually have very little problems in regards to switching from HD, to SD etc...

I have the MCE2005 remote control. I am going to have to read up and see about getting the blasters to work considering I am not using MCE.

Thanks for all your help so far!

[DArthur]

DFA,

I'll double check my settings, but I'm pretty sure I'm already running DXVA, no VPP, and no ffdshow (at least, its not selected in TT2.0). Just curious why both TT2.0 and WMP do not have a problem with the CapDVHS version, but serious studder with the GraphEdit version...

Anyone know if there is a tangible difference between the two types of captures?

Are there any easy to use tools that will read the files to get playback info (ie. format, resolutions, etc)?

I'll try playback using sage when I get home tonight.

Thanks for the help so far!

Darryl

[DArthur]

One more thing (well, the first of many "one more things") - It's my understanding that I'll HAVE to use girder for channel changes if I use the Anders' network encoder with SageTV - is this correct?

I'm currently just using SageTV + my USB-UIRT.

Just need to brace the wife that I'll have to buy girder...

Darryl

[DFA]

DArthur:

Yep. Have to control the STB somehow and since the SGR is supposed to be "Universal", this is the best way to maintain that generic application. Specific control of channel, say via the FW link itself, would require a lot more work and becomes specific even amomg various STB's. That is not to say it should not be done if enough people employ the SGR for this single purpose. Anders makes the source available so those that have the talent and are so inclined are welcome to have at it. There is some Linux code for the Moto 6200 for channel change through FW link that could probably be adapted. In the mean time, Girder is your friend. I will export the SGR GML section as soon as I have a chance.

hint: I hear tell there are still some pre-commercial free versions of Girder still out there that will do what you want.

DFA

[DFA]

Travisbell:

Thanks for posting your findings of the CL dump vs. the Sage dump. That kind of feedback will help fine tune and smooth this thing out. The graph is the make or break part of this thing. I'm sure there is more optimization in filter selection here. What I have thrown out is pretty much the first thing I stumbled into that worked. But not necessarily the best.

DFA

[foolio]

travisbell:

can you provide DFA with the enumerated ID for the 6200? which windows driver set are you using to install the 6200?

let me know if you get the MCE blaster working - I don't think anyone has ever figured out how to get it to work outside of MCE

[DFA]

Foolio:

Based on what I saw in his "sage.properties" file, he is using the driver/INF package with instrucitons that you will find in this thread, post #74. He used the "Generic" tuner selection which will work for everyone; just will not give the specific make and model for the capture device when you are having a look at it. Cosmetic, nothing else. Besides, if I ever get the additional emnumerated vendor ID's, you can use "Driver Update" feature to get the specific naming so no reason to hold off on that score.

At some point in time, it might be a good thing if someone with good organizational skills and who has been through the setup process gather up (cut-and-paste) all the instructions, links, downloads, etc. and put together in one thread/post. The instructions and advice so far is choppy, spread out, interspersed with chit chat about this and that and some spanning into another thread about the release of the UNE. I envision it starting out with what is needed like XP (W2K won't work because of a fundamental lacking in the IEEE-1394 stack design), STB with working FW port, Girder, CL filters (how to get them if not on the "QT" (PM route) from someone) and no-fear.

I am getting a little burned out so am going to beg off on that chore myself but am starting to see the need. A passing of the torch.

Dane

[DFA]

Here's a heads up on something else I have observed. Starting with 2.1.x, Sage has included an "Auto-Enter" feature when entering the max number of digits for the STB. I found that after adding the network ecoder and EPG for it, this feature disappeared (no Auto-Enter anymore). I am not sure if this is by design or accident. I have thought about it and can see no virtue in doing so and have decided it is a reportable Frey bug. Maybe it has to do with an independent EPG assigned to the network encoder. Not sure at what point it disappeared but either way, losing it is still of no benefit that I can see.

I have long had some LUA scripting in Girder for giving an Auto-Enter and I just simply reacitivated it. No skin off my nose. This will not be the case for others and might be missed. Should be reported while we are in beta phase; hint.

So if you've become accustomed to the Auto-Enter, intall the UNE and put in a max. digit channel number and nothing happens, hit the "enter" button!

DFA

[travisbell]

So I have a few more "caveats" to work through before this is something a little more usable.

First and foremost, the first time I load SGraphRecorder and Sage everything will work, no problems to speak of. I can change channels, view info. Everything is great. However, if I decide to stop watching TV at any time, or say.. put Sage to sleep I can't get the feed to ever come back. Sage will sit there and think for 10 secs, and then give me (usually) an error like;

"There was a Playback Error in payback. Details:
sage.PlaybackException: ERROR (05,0x80004005):
There was a problem rendering the audio portion of
the content for playback."

When I take a look at SGraphRecorder, it is still sitting at it's last msg, something usually like this;

GET_FILE_SIZE C:\path to my video folder\showname-numbers.mpg 2:34:06 PM

Have you guys ever experienced this? it seems to me, Sage isn't telling SGraphRecorder to stop graphing when it stops. Kinda like what happens when you try and access the same graph twice on your computer. The second one never works.

Any ideas?

Thanks guys!

[travisbell]

Originally Posted by foolio

travisbell:

can you provide DFA with the enumerated ID for the 6200? which windows driver set are you using to install the 6200?

let me know if you get the MCE blaster working - I don't think anyone has ever figured out how to get it to work outside of MCE

You referring to the "Device Instance Id" in System Prefs?

If so, it is:

AVC\MOTOROLA&DCT-6200&TYP_5&ID_0\5F8D92FEFF5C0E00

If not, let me know!

Cheers,