STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[duwrt]

Originally Posted by Kirby

... Once I understood the english phrase of "make sure SGR is in the startup folder" and actually left it running!!!! Now its all working great! Can tune, change HD channels, watch live and record!!! And might I add, just in time for the Orange Bowl!!

I've finally got the point where I change channels, record and playback HD, but no luck in watching it LIVE....

When I attempt to watch a live HD stream, SGR gives a few GET_FILE_SIZE messages then SAGETV gives an error of "sage.playbackException: ERROR (-3,0x800004005):There was a problem acessing the filesystem for playback."

At that point, I get no live video or sound, but the system continues to record the program. I've looked thru the posts for a few days now and most of what I understood pointed at decoder issues. I'm using the InterVideo v7.

Any ideas on where I should start to tweak things ? Also, can someone point me to the post that talks about putting SGR in the startup folder, or did I just miss it in the setup guide ?

Forgot to mention:
- I'm doing everything from one machine, no clients... Does this make a major difference ?

Thanks much

[gtd885a]

I asked this in another thread, and maybe I just need to create a thread for this, but...

I recently added a Win-TV PVR-150 to my setup with the existing firewire tuner, so now I am able to get all of the channels on the capture card through either the analog tuner or by tuning the motorola box and capturing via s-video. In addition, I have all of the analog channels and local HD channels through firewire.

What I was wondering is if it would be possible to use the firewire channel changer to change the channels over firewire for the digital channels on the capture card. I can't seem to get the ir blaster working for the capture card (and I would really rather not use it anyway). Of course, I still want to capture everything I can via firewire (local HD and analog).

Thanks, and if anyone knows of another dicsussion on this please let me know. I haven't been able to find one.

[gtd885a]

Originally Posted by jds23

Yes. That is what the FW channel changer does. It changes channels via FW for your digital/analog (Svideo port of your capture card).

Yes, I know that, I have been using it for a while now.

My question was, can I use it to change channels on the channels that are NOT configured for the SGR tuner in Sage, i.e. I have set up 3 sources in Sage. 1 firewire source that tunes channels under 100 and between 780-800 (or so), another source for the analog channels for the capture card, and a third source for the digital channels over the capture card. What I would like to be able to do is change the channel over firewire but capture with the tuner card. The only way to get Sage to change the channel over firewire is by specifying that those channels are active on the SGR tuner. But, when Sage tries to capture those channels over firewire, it doesn't work because those channels are 5c'd.

In other words, I want to use firewire to change channels AND capture for some channels, and for other channels I want to use firewire to ONLY change channels, and have the capture card as the video source. Maybe I'm missing something and this is easy, I dunno...

[gtd885a]

Originally Posted by jds23

The question is this... would someone be so kind as to give me a brief run through of what I need to do?

Well, I think the instructions linked to in the first post still apply for the most part. The graph is pretty much trivial now. It's just Tuner->Dump.

So, as you said, get graphedit and SGR extracted to directories of your choice. Next, run the RegDumpFilter.bat in the SGR directory to register the sgraphrecorder dump filter. Now, open up graphedit and go to Graph, Insert FIlters, and add:

1) Video Capture Sources, [Your Tuner Device]
2) DirectShowFilters, SBDARecorderDump (or something like that)
(Note, you will need to specify a dump.mpg - or whatever you want to call it - and put it in a directory that you will record to)

Connect up the output of the Tuner to the input of the dump filter. Save that graph to your SGR directory, and then edit the SGraphRecorder.ini and Sage.properties files accordingly. As I mentioned, the changes needed are in the instructions linked to in the first post, but basically:

SGraphRecorder.ini:

Point to your graph that you just created under the [Graph], FileName. Adjust tuningDelay. Add the path to channel.exe under [ExeTuner], ExeTunerPath

Sage.properties (make sure Sage is not running):

Add this to the end of the mmc/encoders section:

mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/brightness=130
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/contrast=135
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/hue=125
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/last_channel=785
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/provider_id=1275959112333
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/saturation=105
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/sharpness=170
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/tuning_mode=
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/12345/1/0/video_crossbar_type=10
mmc/encoders/12345/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/12345/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12345/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/12345/capture_config=
mmc/encoders/12345/default_device_quality=DVD Standard Play
mmc/encoders/12345/device_class=
mmc/encoders/12345/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/12345/encoding_host=localhost\:6969
mmc/encoders/12345/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/12345/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/12345/last_cross_type=10
mmc/encoders/12345/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/12345/multicast_host=
mmc/encoders/12345/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/12345/video_capture_device_name=SGR
mmc/encoders/12345/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/12345/video_encoding_params=DVD Standard Play
mmc/encoders/12345/video_processor=

Then, add:

mmc/always_tune_channel=true

You will also be coming back to this .ini file to change the videoframe/network_encoding_to_playback_delay after you add SGR as a source in Sage.

If you haven't already, make sure SGR is started (and go ahead and put it in Startup folder). Next, add SGR as a source in Sage. Once it's set up, you will need to go back and adjust the delays as mentioned earlier.

I'll try to update this if I remember anything else, but I think that's all that you should need (since it sounds like you have everything else going already).

[gtd885a]

Originally Posted by jds23

Thanks VM for the info gtd885a, that is exactly what I was after. Now to just get it working, I also found another guide from a post today http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...5&d=1132588727 that I think might help. For some reason I never saw this one. We'll see how it goes, fingers crossed!

Hey, that's a great little set of instructions. Much better than my random thoughts

I would still welcome any suggestions for my question a couple posts back about channel changing. It seems that some do this and end up with 2 recordings, one for firewire and one for the capture card. But this seems to only work in MCE?

Or maybe I should just try harder to get the ir blaster working (Motorola 6200 isn't on the list of devices for the win-tv pvr-150 ir blaster setup, and nothing I try works).

[thomaszoo]

I have a DCT 6200 with Comcast. On the front there is a slot labeled "Cable Card". I was wondering if anyone has put a cable card in there for use as a second tuner, using it for firewire recording instead of the main tuner. This would allow recording of one program while watching a second without the cost and space used by a second cable box.

[jriskin]

So the "MSIEXEC /i firestb.msi IDENT=0" trick worked! Thanks for the tip, its ironic that after you install it, its in the FAQ...

Anyway, using this got me back some level of HD recording. But now i get the following.

Digital SD - Good channels record fine
Digital SD - Bad channels stutter and have mpeg glitches
HDTV - Glitches/stuttering

First time I tried the HDTV i managed to get it working for a bit, then it froze and Sgraph went from 2-5% cpu time to 99%. Tried a second time and it just stuttered a lot. So I added a analog channel recording, which just gave more stuttering and glitching. CPU is still 50-90% idle the entire time. I tried just using the computer for other things and managed to almost get it froze up just reading a web page. It seems that if something else uses up too much cpu time, it gets backed up in a weird way.

It actually seems to be doing it all the time (bad digital SD and HD channels), but somehow doesn't freeze up, but does stutter all the time (getting worse with CPU time being used or adding HD to the mix).

I'm using Sage 5 (whatever the latest one is), Sgraph 1.0.10 and the latest meistb.msi as well. Its an athlon xp2500, 512MEG RAM, and Radeon 9600.

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I have a DCT 6200 with Comcast. On the front there is a slot labeled "Cable Card". I was wondering if anyone has put a cable card in there for use as a second tuner, using it for firewire recording instead of the main tuner. This would allow recording of one program while watching a second without the cost and space used by a second cable box.

I have got to get my eyes checked! It says "Smart Card", not "Cable Card". Oh well...

[metropole]

I really like this http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...5&d=1132588727 guide. Who wrote it?

Got everything working. However, I have currently a PC that needs some CPU upgrading...

Starting SGraphRecorder:
What is your way of doing this? Putting it into the Startup Menu? Is there a way that Sage could start it?

What is your playback strategy of recordings/live TV comming from the STB?
So far I used the TV-out of my Hauppauge 350.
I assume I can't output video to the STB box?
I would like to continue to have one monitor with the program guide, and one (projector) with the video.

Is there a way to reduce the capture quality for HD?
It would be nice to to use the Sage program guide for HD with the little video window. However, with the default settings the PC can hardly keep up...

And most important: Why can't I capture regular channels from the STB?
Do the regular digital channles not get outputed?

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by jriskin

Its an athlon xp2500, 512MEG RAM, and Radeon 9600.

I just started reading this thread, but have been doing HDTV with an OTA reciever for a while. My guess is that you just don't have enough computer there to get away with flawless HDTV playback. I have a 3200+ and a Gig of Ram and a 6600GT. I still have problems with HDTV playback. HDTV is a much bigger chore for your computer to crunch. You might be able to download some high quality trasport stream clips off the web somewhere. Then you'd know if its your capture or your playback. Or both.

[Kirby]

Just curious if anyone has tried using a QAM tuner such as the LG LST-4310A with this? Since it does QAM and has firewire output, I'm wondering if it would be a viable option, because I am getting rid of my Charter-owned cable boxes and dropping down to lifeline cable. The LG box would allow me to still get the ITC QAM channels. I have no idea if the LG can accept channel change commands over the firewire port, but even if an IR blaster setup had to be used, I would consider it!

[jriskin]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

I just started reading this thread, but have been doing HDTV with an OTA reciever for a while. My guess is that you just don't have enough computer there to get away with flawless HDTV playback. I have a 3200+ and a Gig of Ram and a 6600GT. I still have problems with HDTV playback. HDTV is a much bigger chore for your computer to crunch. You might be able to download some high quality trasport stream clips off the web somewhere. Then you'd know if its your capture or your playback. Or both.

You may be right, although that would be quite disappointing. Since I can capture fine on my Mac, I just threw over a 1080i video,

VLC Averaged 40-60% - Peaked 71% didn't stutter.
WMP Averaged 50-80% - stuttered, didn't play back the audio, froze around minute 3 for at least 20-30 seconds.
SageTV 15-35% - Peaked 47% - Looked good, a few frame tears

VLC/WMP did a terrible job with the interlacing (looked like someone ran it through a bad photoshop warp filter).

The problem I have is that the recording is a mere 2MB/sec stream of data. How hard could it possibly be to record that to disk? Even if the playback isn't smooth, recording shouldn't be a problem at all (you don't have to decompress the packets or display them in anyway). I'm still thinking its a software problem, especially after seeing how WMP handles the same video.

My instinct (which is usually pretty good with software) is that whatever is grabbing the packets off firewire is running in to unexpected data. Would throwing more hardware at the problem fix it? Possibly, but fixing the software would probably be a more elegant solution.

[salsbst]

I've emailed support on this issue, but just wanted to make sure there isn't something I could be doing...here's my situation:

I can record from the cable box via 1394. The streams play fine (audio and video) in WMP on any of my three machines. In each of those machines, I get no audio when I play them within Sage. It doesn't matter which decoders I use. I've tried them all. So, it seems like a problem with the demuxing.

Is there anything I could do? Can I swap out sage's demux for whichever one WMP uses?

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Is there anything I could do? Can I swap out sage's demux for whichever one WMP uses?

Did you verify that the demux filter used by WMP is even an option in Sage? Drop your TS (or mpg) file into graphedit and see what demux it uses. Which audio filter does graphedit use?

Which audio filters did you try in Sage?

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Did you verify that the demux filter used by WMP is even an option in Sage? Drop your TS (or mpg) file into graphedit and see what demux it uses. Which audio filter does graphedit use?

Which audio filters did you try in Sage?

Thanks, Kirby.

I don't know whether the demux filter used by WMP is an option in Sage. My sense is that we cannot choose our demux -- that Sage is hardwired to use its own, probably because it has some special sauce in it.

For some reason, it never occurred to me to use GraphEdit to determine the graph that WMP uses. Does WMP always use the defaults for the whole graph? I'll certainly give that a try.

For audio filters, I've tried:

AC3 Filter
Intervideo (this is the one I normally use)
Cyberlink
MPEG II (the Microsoft one with no name)
SageTV
Nvidia

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Thanks, Kirby.

I don't know whether the demux filter used by WMP is an option in Sage. My sense is that we cannot choose our demux -- that Sage is hardwired to use its own, probably because it has some special sauce in it.

I believe you can, but I think its through some registry hacks to do it.

For some reason, it never occurred to me to use GraphEdit to determine the graph that WMP uses. Does WMP always use the defaults for the whole graph? I'll certainly give that a try.

I believe WMP will use whatever graphedit shows, as it (graphedit) should grab and use the filters with the highest merit settings.

AC3 Filter

The default one in sage, or have you done an install of the full version of AC3 filter? If you havent installed it, you might try that, as it will allow a lot more control, including the ability to override ther merit setting, making it the preferred filter, as well as other nice functions (ac3 pass through, spdif control etc).

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by Kirby

I believe you can, but I think its through some registry hacks to do it.



I believe WMP will use whatever graphedit shows, as it (graphedit) should grab and use the filters with the highest merit settings.



The default one in sage, or have you done an install of the full version of AC3 filter? If you havent installed it, you might try that, as it will allow a lot more control, including the ability to override ther merit setting, making it the preferred filter, as well as other nice functions (ac3 pass through, spdif control etc).

Both the default one in Sage and the one from SourceForge -- neither works.

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Did you verify that the demux filter used by WMP is even an option in Sage? Drop your TS (or mpg) file into graphedit and see what demux it uses. Which audio filter does graphedit use?

Which audio filters did you try in Sage?

I get the NVidia Transport Demux from GraphEdt, and the file plays fine. However, I've searched the forums and been unable to find instructions for changing the demux that Sage uses (I'm still not convinced that I can change it), so I'm at a stop at this point.

[salsbst]

Solved my 'no audio' problem.

On the advice of Sage support, I unregistered the nvtrpdemux.ax and now the files play back with audio.

Apparently, Sage is supposed to use its own renderer, but was instead using the Nvidia one (and for some other reason, though the Nvidia demux works in WMP/GraphEdit, it doesn't work in Sage).

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Solved my 'no audio' problem.

On the advice of Sage support, I unregistered the nvtrpdemux.ax and now the files play back with audio.

Apparently, Sage is supposed to use its own renderer, but was instead using the Nvidia one (and for some other reason, though the Nvidia demux works in WMP/GraphEdit, it doesn't work in Sage).

So which demux are you using then, or arent you sure? I assume nvtrpdemux.ax is part of PureVideo? If thats the case, it is installed on all my machines, and would have been the highest merit on my HTPC I bet, because thats just a clean install of XP MCE, PureVideo and Sage, unless Sage installs its own demux at a higher merit. I'll have to check it tonight and see what I have as the highest merit demux.