STB Firewire (IEEE-1394) Support

[TorontoSage]

Is anyone able to channel change (via command line, to start) both a 4250HD and an 8300HD PVR daisy-chained via firewire to a WHS (or any other OS for that matter)?

I have my (Rogers Cable) Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4250HD working via the command line and through SageTV v7 on my WHS box and controlled using an HD200. But, I can't get the SA Explorer 8300HD PVR to channel change via the command line yet (so I am not going to try with SageTV until I get the command line working).

I installed the drivers using timmoore firestb files and channel changed the 4250 from the command line using channel and channelw with no problem. When I do a 'channel /v' the system shows both device id's when they are daisy chained. I tried using different firewire ports on the back of both units, tried reversing the order of them (ie the 8300 first then the 4250 daisy-chained to it and in reverse) but that didn't work either. Just to make sure it wasn't the daisy-chaining that was the problem I've also tried connecting just one at a time and the system also shows the device id of the one connected when I do a channel /v. So, the system definitely recognizes them.

Whether daisy chained or not, when I enter the command:

channel -f -a6 -n <device number> <channel number>

it changes the channel on the 4250 but not the 8300 even though both are recognized by the system. Also both commands return the same feedback from the system (ie the 4 lines starting with 'calling tranport release'), but the command line sent to the 4250 changes the channel and the one sent to the 8300 doesn't.

I have attached the screen dump below.

So I am wondering if the command line needs to be changed for the 8300HD and if so what that command line is?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

SCREEN DUMP: (note: those smiley faces kept appearing when I cut and paste no matter what I did. replace them with : p with no space in-between)

Microsoft Windows [Version 5.2.3790]
(C) Copyright 1985-2003 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>channel /v
Firewire STB channel changer V1.0.15, by timmmoore
1 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_5&id_0#ee7c29
3a2200#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
2 "AVC Panel Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'

UniqueID 'ee7c293a2200'
VendorID '223a'
ModelID '10cc'
VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
ModelText 'Explorer(R) 4300'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_4300&typ_9&id_0#ee7c29
3a2200#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
3 "FireBus MPEG2TS Tuner Subunit Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Tuner Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_8300hd&typ_5&id_0#9c39
b1921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 0
4 "AVC Panel Device"
'Scientific-Atlanta AV/C Panel Device'

UniqueID '9c39b1921600'
VendorID '1692'
ModelID '206c'
VendorText 'Scientific-Atlanta Inc.'
ModelText 'Explorer(R) 8300HD'
"@devicenp:\\?\avc#scientific-atlanta__inc.&explorer(r)_8300hd&typ_9&id_0#9c39
b1921600#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c9223196}\global" 1
5 'Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\usb#vid_2040&pid_4901#00a29f88#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c92
23196}\{a5d44047-56a5-4afd-a61c-176bb4ed375b}" 0
6 'Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device'
"@devicenp:\\?\usb#vid_2040&pid_4901#00a2b447#{65e8773d-8f56-11d0-a3b9-00a0c92
23196}\{a5d44047-56a5-4afd-a61c-176bb4ed375b}" 0
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>channel -f -a6 -n ee7c293a220
0 518
Calling tranport release
Called tranport release
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>channel -f -a6 -n 9c39b192160
0 518
Calling tranport release
Called tranport release
Calling CoUninitialize
Called CoUninitialize

C:\Program Files\Timmmoore\MCE 2005 STB Controller>

[wayner]

Do you have the drivers from this page http://home.comcast.net/~exdeus/stbfirewire/ These ones seem to be more recent and may work better with the 8300. That being said, I know that I have been able to use the command with my 8300 but that was with Win XP MCE a few years back.

Other things to try would be different -a options with the 8300 although I have had that give me a BSOD in the past. Have you tried -a4 with the 8300?

[TorontoSage]

Yes, those were the drivers I used. And I installed and reinstalled the cables, rebooted the cable boxes, tried one at at a time, reinstalled the drivers, etc. until I couldn't think of any more combinations to try.

I also tried using '-ax' with x being 1 through 6, still nothing.

I also tried using the device number instead of the device id, in the format:

channel -f -a6 <device number> <channel number>

and then tried that also with -ax (x being 1 through 6) but that didn't work either.

I can only think that the 8300HD just can't be channel changed on a WHS or there is something otherwise defective with my unit that allows it to be recognized by the system, but not channel-changed.

I am going to try modifying all the appropriate files and seeing if I can get it running from SageTV even though it won't run from the command line, which is highly unlikely. But, my next challenge is to get my second HD PVR running and so far SageTV 7 will only recognize one of them.

If this all fails I guess I will go buy another 4250HD.

[wayner]

Have you tried it on another PC just for the heck of it - the 8300 theoretically should work. You might want to rent a 4250HD for a while unless you get one for a good price. I bought two of mine at the Futureshop Boxing Day sale two years ago as they were only $99.

Or see if you can buy a used 3250HD someplace like Craigslist or Kijiji. The main diff between the 3250HD and 4250HD is that the 4250 has a HDMI whereas the 3250 does not so the 3250 is less desirable for most people and Rogers no longer gives these out. But that is irrelevant in this application since you are using component.

If it won't run form the com line then it won't run from Sage as Sage just calls the com line app.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by wayner

If it won't run form the com line then it won't run from Sage as Sage just calls the com line app.

That's what I was suspecting. It's so odd since the driver I installed does support the 8300HD and the system recognizes it.

I only have a laptop without firewire so no way to test. Great idea to rent a 4250HD and test it and if that works buy one of those, or a used 3250HD, but I'd rather make sure I tested it first so the rent a 4250 then buy one sounds better to me. I did get the one 4250HD I have on sale for $99 too.

The only silver lining in this cloud is that the 4250HD apparently does not go into sleep mode while the 8300HD does.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

The only silver lining in this cloud is that the 4250HD apparently does not go into sleep mode while the 8300HD does.

That is true but I am pretty sure that there is a setting where it will power on with any number key being pressed and that works with firewire. But I don't use my 8300 with Sage - it is hooked up to my main TV. It also can be used as a PVR when you went to be extra sure that you don't miss a recording.

If you continue to be foiled by this then you do still have the option of using a USB-UIRT for channel change. I have one and use it with my SA3200(SD) box since this box does not have firewire. I still record a lot of SD shows for the kids since most kids' shows are not in HD - or at least TreehouseTV and NickJr are not in HD.

[Comitizer]

So I saw this line in the SageTV 7 release notes:

Added experimental property "fast_network_encoder_switch" which is capture-device specific. This will enable using seamless file transitions with network encoders. This is NOT officially supported and is intended mainly for 3rd party network encoders that wish to support this capability. It should however work with regular SageTV network encoders, however this has not been tested and is not supported.

I'm wondering if anyone has had the chance to test this with sgraphrecorder. It would be pretty cool to be able to get rid of the pause when using it.

Also, have there ever been any updates to sgraphrecorder? Is the app open source? Is the developer still around?

[jimz06]

My experience with firewire recording is using BeyondTV with an external app that just uses the BTV schedule info to trigger recordings. The recordings can only be watched after they are completed. Does Sage allow live viewing of the firewire capture and timeshifting?

[jbuszkie]

Firewire recording for me works just like a regular tuner. It just has a longer delay when tuning a channel...

So yes.. you can timeshift..

Jim

[davey_fl]

Hey Jim,

Mine works fine for the most part as well. But I do run onto hd recordings that don't time shift properly. For example, a 10 second jump will jump several minutes, either forward or reverse. It's obvious the timeline is messed up on these as some of them will say the whole timeline is 9 minutes on a 1 hour show. If I start to watch the show and don't attempt to timeshift it plays fine. But if I timeshift it messes up. Have you seen this behavior?

David

[Comitizer]

Sound like your cording is corrupt. I'm guessing that this is caused by a drop out of your cable signal. There are utilities that will fix the problem but they take some time to run.

I've also found that there are times when the Sage transcoder can transcode the file into something that becomes more usable. Perhaps that will work for you.

[jbuszkie]

Sage is starting to crash regularly on me. I think it's tied to firewire recording. It seems to happen when I start to record from one of the cable boxes.
I have two and I can't tell if it's just one or either. I swear once I was actually watching on the server when it happened an I saw the miestb.sys (or whatever the driver is names) come up on the BSD.

Any thoughts on tracking this down?

It doesn't happen all the time. I can be watching something on the HD200 and it happens. It happens sometimes when no one is watching anything. I can manually force shows to start and nothing happens. It seems random.. as in I can't replicate it. The only thing I can tell is it happens when a show start recording on the cable boxes..

Has anyone else seen this?

I supposed I can possible dig into the logs to see if it's just one of the cable boxes. I also suppose I can try to get a plug in firewire card to see if mine
is just going south.
I'm probably going to have to do a fresh install of the os because of all these crashes!

Jim

[scoful]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

Sage is starting to crash regularly on me. I think it's tied to firewire recording. It seems to happen when I start to record from one of the cable boxes.
I have two and I can't tell if it's just one or either. I swear once I was actually watching on the server when it happened an I saw the miestb.sys (or whatever the driver is names) come up on the BSD.

Any thoughts on tracking this down?

It doesn't happen all the time. I can be watching something on the HD200 and it happens. It happens sometimes when no one is watching anything. I can manually force shows to start and nothing happens. It seems random.. as in I can't replicate it. The only thing I can tell is it happens when a show start recording on the cable boxes..

Has anyone else seen this?

I supposed I can possible dig into the logs to see if it's just one of the cable boxes. I also suppose I can try to get a plug in firewire card to see if mine
is just going south.
I'm probably going to have to do a fresh install of the os because of all these crashes!

Jim

This may sound crazy but it may be your power supply.

I have had this happen on 2 occasions. First time I was just running one STB - Channel would tune but 'No Signal' on playback. Server would become unstable and periodically bluescreen. I initially changed the Firewire card and it worked for a month or two then back to the same. Replaced power supply and everything went back to working fine.
A couple of years later had expanded to two STB's and only one was having a problem (yeah - you'd think I would have remembered from before). Once again changed firewire card, but that didn't help at all this round. After completely re-doing my firewire setup with no luck I remembered the power supply and that fixed the problem again.

Not sure why the power supply is so critical - it's not powering the STB's in any way and channelw.exe worked fine the entire time - changed the channel with no problem at all. When trying to run the graph by itself it would either output a zero byte file or the graph would say something like 'resources not available'.

Also as a side note - I was working on a customer's computer yesterday that they said had been running very slowly and now would not run at all. I viewed the power supply voltages in the bios screen and they all looked good. However; I could hear an unusual noise from the power supply - it was subtle. I connected a new supply and not only did the machine boot up but ran faster than I have seen it move it over a year!

[FlyingDoc]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

Sage is starting to crash regularly on me. I think it's tied to firewire recording. It seems to happen when I start to record from one of the cable boxes.
I have two and I can't tell if it's just one or either. I swear once I was actually watching on the server when it happened an I saw the miestb.sys (or whatever the driver is names) come up on the BSD.

Any thoughts on tracking this down?

It doesn't happen all the time. I can be watching something on the HD200 and it happens. It happens sometimes when no one is watching anything. I can manually force shows to start and nothing happens. It seems random.. as in I can't replicate it. The only thing I can tell is it happens when a show start recording on the cable boxes..

Has anyone else seen this?

I supposed I can possible dig into the logs to see if it's just one of the cable boxes. I also suppose I can try to get a plug in firewire card to see if mine
is just going south.
I'm probably going to have to do a fresh install of the os because of all these crashes!

Jim

I have the same (or very similar) problem. Firewire settop boxes as inputs and recently started to blue screen once in a while after being very stable for a long time. I cant correlate with the start of recording but definitely seems to be recording related. I'll try and read the BSD next time to see if it does point to the drivers...

After several reboots over last weekend i took out almost all of the plugins (cant live without comskip so that is still in). So far no crash but the problem is random enough that i am not declaring a eureka moment yet.

Note for info i am running Sage 7 on Windows 7 ...

....update.... just crashed again this morning so not related to the plugins i removed ...also definitely not just starting to record....i was watching the formula 1 qualifying time delayed by 20 mins or so. I couldnt see the message on the BSD as it only stays there for a second or two before the reboot..

[Lostinpvr]

First I have looked everywhere and found some info in the forums but from what i see most is older Pre 5 Sage stuff.

What I am looking for is a more comprehensive Firewire install guide for SageTV 7 running on Win 7. Just not sure if the files on the site are appropriate for my setup or if newer drivers or Apps are available. There is a lot of info for XP and Vista installs guess Vista is what i want to look at. Looks like a lot of folks are using firewire to record and tune the STB so figured something was out there somewhere.

Thank You Jeff.

[eopian]

Originally Posted by Lostinpvr

First I have looked everywhere and found some info in the forums but from what i see most is older Pre 5 Sage stuff.

What I am looking for is a more comprehensive Firewire install guide for SageTV 7 running on Win 7. Just not sure if the files on the site are appropriate for my setup or if newer drivers or Apps are available. There is a lot of info for XP and Vista installs guess Vista is what i want to look at. Looks like a lot of folks are using firewire to record and tune the STB so figured something was out there somewhere.

Thank You Jeff.

I am using firewire (FW) to tune and two HDPVR's to record from my STBs. Here are the basics (you can find the specifics based on this) of how I finally figured out how to set it up.

a. Download drivers for your STB, plugin STB via FW and then install drivers
b. Install the Tim Moore files
c. Use the directions and play around with the dos prompt until you can change channels via a command prompt (copy your successful attempt to a blank notebook file). I set this up using the 'address' for my STBs not the number since the number can change but the 'address' does not.
d. Install exeMultiTuner
e. Change registry setting for exeMultiTuner (use your successful command prompt to help you here).
f. Setup stub device in sage for each 'address' for your turner(s)
g. Setup tuner and tuning within Sage (there is an option to select your newly created stub device after choosing exeMultiTuner).

There are a few different documented ways to setup FW channel changing within sage and this is a loose outline of how I did it.

[wayner]

And note that the Tim Moore drivers only work for the 32 bit version of Win7 if you have the 64 bit version then you are SOL for firewire.

[zz5]

Has anyone been able to get a Motorola DCX 3200 to work well?

Aftering using a DCT 6000 problem free for years, I've now tried 4 computers with 2 different DCX 3200's with different recording software and drivers trying all types of things the last 3 weeks. I get reboots and failures to start capture equally with all computers and both cable boxes. I also searched and found that people having linux are having the same problems using MythTV. I haven't found any evidence that anyone has one of these running stable.

[bonoman]

Originally Posted by zz5

Has anyone been able to get a Motorola DCX 3200 to work well?

Aftering using a DCT 6000 problem free for years, I've now tried 4 computers with 2 different DCX 3200's with different recording software and drivers trying all types of things the last 3 weeks. I get reboots and failures to start capture equally with all computers and both cable boxes. I also searched and found that people having linux are having the same problems using MythTV. I haven't found any evidence that anyone has one of these running stable.

I went through the same issue when I moved 18 months ago. Comcast in MN gave me a 3200 that I had issues with. Over the course of time, I got lucky and found two things that seemed to fix most of those issues:
1) Upgraded to Sage 7. Suddenly *most* of the failed to capture messages went away, else I had to have my sgraphrecorder delay set high enough to make coffee between changing channels
2) Switch to a SSD. I was having delays with the program guide dragging when coming up, images loading, just was kinda laggy in general. Running on the SSD, its blazing fast and sgraphrecorder seems to start writing the file quicker and making it available for Sage to stream from it. I'm not running on new hardware, but its not an 8088 either.

I rarely have errors anymore, though until I get a board that can support more than 2 sata devices, I'm a bit cramped for space.

[FlyingDoc]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

Sage is starting to crash regularly on me. I think it's tied to firewire recording. It seems to happen when I start to record from one of the cable boxes.
I have two and I can't tell if it's just one or either. I swear once I was actually watching on the server when it happened an I saw the miestb.sys (or whatever the driver is names) come up on the BSD.

Any thoughts on tracking this down?

It doesn't happen all the time. I can be watching something on the HD200 and it happens. It happens sometimes when no one is watching anything. I can manually force shows to start and nothing happens. It seems random.. as in I can't replicate it. The only thing I can tell is it happens when a show start recording on the cable boxes..

Has anyone else seen this?

I supposed I can possible dig into the logs to see if it's just one of the cable boxes. I also suppose I can try to get a plug in firewire card to see if mine
is just going south.
I'm probably going to have to do a fresh install of the os because of all these crashes!

Jim

just checking if you have had any success tracking this down,,,,, i had two crashes within a few mins last night. I was again watching a currently recording show time shifted.

I am rolling back to an older SageTV folder backup that i have to see if that gets me stable again. Jim what version of Sage are you running?