mCubed T-Balancer

[stanger89]

1) They generally don't change much, they may speed up a little when I'm doing something, but it's not a wild up/down thing.

2) I know there are two types of sensors aviailable for it, the digital ones (which came with mine) are supposed to be more accurate, but also cost more.

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by ukmgranger

This device sounds (or hopefully not ) pretty cool. I just have a couple of questions.

1) Isn't it more annoying hearing fans speeding up/down? As far as human perception goes - noise at a constant amplitude is less noticable than noise at varying amplitudes as the brain instantly picks up on the changes.

Not at all. If the fans were to "jump" changing speeds then maybe yes, but such is not the case. The T-Balancer provides smooth gradual increase (or decrease) of voltage to fan(s) as needed. Plus, temp changes in system usually aren't sudden, unless there's some type of problem. Not to mention HTPC under load my fans have yet to need anywhere near 100%v to fans, usually more like 50 to 60%v range for good cooling.

2) On the website that I am looking at buying a T-Balancer from, there are two types; SL4 'Digital' and SL4 'Analogue'. What is the diference between the two?

Curious, what website? There is no SL4 Analog model per se' as far as I can tell. Sounds like it's just a preconfigured accessory package adding the analog capability to the inherent digital capability which is always there. Here's the manufacturer website From what I found researching before buying there are two control models: TBAN-XL and TBAN-SL4 varying only in mounting form factor. Both come with 4 digital sensors and support up total 8 digital sensors and 6 analog sensors. The TBAN-SH analog sensor hub is an extension to, not replacement for, the the XL or SL4 which adds analog sensor and flowmeter capability and emergency shut-off, primarily for water cooled systems as far as I could tell. T-Balancer also can be used for lightshow control as well as fan control but I didn't research that specific implementation.

[ukmgranger]

Originally Posted by mdmint

There is no SL4 Analog model per se' as far as I can tell. Sounds like it's just a preconfigured accessory package adding the analog capability to the inherent digital capability which is always there. Here's the manufacturer website From what I found researching before buying there are two control models: TBAN-XL and TBAN-SL4 varying only in mounting form factor. Both come with 4 digital sensors and support up total 8 digital sensors and 6 analog sensors. The TBAN-SH analog sensor hub is an extension to, not replacement for, the the XL or SL4 which adds analog sensor and flowmeter capability and emergency shut-off, primarily for water cooled systems as far as I could tell. T-Balancer also can be used for lightshow control as well as fan control but I didn't research that specific implementation.

Look here:
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/...ntrollers.html

Just wondered what the score was?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by ukmgranger

Look here:
http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/...ntrollers.html

Just wondered what the score was?

At first I thought what the hay, that UK reseller does indeed list both digital and analog versions for the SL & XL. But checking out the analog version, scroll down to package contents, and it is indeed just a SL (or XL) without the normally included digital sensors with the analog extension hub and analog sensors added.

[ukmgranger]

Originally Posted by mdmint

At first I thought what the hay, that UK reseller does indeed list both digital and analog versions for the SL & XL. But checking out the analog version, scroll down to package contents, and it is indeed just a SL (or XL) without the normally included digital sensors with the analog extension hub and analog sensors added.

And that kinda' leads me on to my next question. Whats the difference between the analogue/digital sensors? Which are better?

also (a touch off topic):
mdmint

I have just bought a laptop drive as I saw your setup and thought 'what a great idea'. As you have your drives to shut down after 3 mins, does your C: drive shut down also? Mine seems to be constantly writing something and thus never shuts down.

any ideas?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by ukmgranger

And that kinda' leads me on to my next question. Whats the difference between the analogue/digital sensors? Which are better?

The digital sensors are much more accurate. As far as I could tell from mfg website analog usually used in conjuction with water cooled systems. See:
http://www.mcubed-tech.com/eng/produkte.htm
and then click XL and SL4 scroll down for sensor info
and click water cooling where they talk about analog probes and sensors...

also (a touch off topic):
mdmint
I have just bought a laptop drive as I saw your setup and thought 'what a great idea'. As you have your drives to shut down after 3 mins, does your C: drive shut down also? Mine seems to be constantly writing something and thus never shuts down.
any ideas?

You know, I'm not 100% sure my C: drive shuts off or stays shut off. I didn't hook up front panel HD access lights, figured they'd just be an annoyance in the AV stack. I have two laptop HDs, different brands and one slightly quieter than the other which is used for boot and I don't hear it a couple feet away, most definitely not from our primary viewing Loveseat Recliner. The other HD is only used for Ghosting & I know it atleast shuts off and stays off because when I shutdown WinXP I hear HD spinup for Win to close.

[stanger89]

I think I may be done. I finally got my laptop drive installed, 40GB 4200RPM 8Mb Toshiba...

To recap, I now have:
Fanless Antec Phantom 350W PSU
Fanless Gigabyte Geforce 6800
Zalman CNPS-7000AlCu on a 2.4GHz P4
Toshiba notebook HDD
2x80mm Case fans and the 92mm Zalman controlled by an M-Cubed T-Balancer.

Results?

I walked down into the "HT" tonight, furnace and humidifier not running, and guess what, I couldn't hear my HTPC After a little more attention, I noticed a buzzing squealing sound, so I fire up the T-Balancer CP, and mess with the fan speeds, nothing fixes it, nothing changes it. Then I realize, it's the recessed lights on the dimmer that are squealing.

That's right, the lights on the dimmer are louder than my HTPC. Now that's quiet. As for temperatures, the TBCP reports about 100F for the CPU and PSU and about 110-120F for my 6800. The CPU temp gives with the onboard sensor about perfectly, the 6800 may run a little warmer than the TB reports, but all in all, PRACTICALLY SILENT, at reasonable temperatures, and with killer performance, what more could you ask for?

Now if I really listen I can hear a little beading between two of the fans, but still, I'm really happy with this thing. It's definitely safe to say it's the best $75 I've ever spent on my HTPC. Plus it saved me probably $900 by giving me a silent PC without needing an ATech heatsinc/heatpipe case.

[mdmint]

One thing I don't think Stanger or I mentioned is that for sensors to be accurate placement isn't critical. (Important sure but not critical) Stanger mounted his cpu sensor above on a heatsink fin while I mounted mine down at the base of the cpu heatsink. Our readings can both be accurate. How? T-Balancer way configurable. I simply ran Asus Probe and T-Balancer Cockpit at the same time. In Cockpit calibrated the T-Balancer temp sensor to match Asus Probe's reading. Temp changes track virtually identical. The sensor I placed on the Bridge heatsink I calibrated to ASUS mobo temp. Since the 6600GT doesn't have an internal temp sensor I used the same offset for the sensor I placed on it's heatsink as I used for the cpu. (6600GT not having temp sensor capability many people have wondered and complained about since the silly card has overclocking supported but no way to measure the heat it's generating but that's another story... )

I've said it before, Stanger's said it, I'll say it again. Short of buying one of those super expensive heatsink cases and accompanying massive heatpipe cpu & gpu coolers the mCubed T-Balancer is the BEST method of cooling and quieting a HTPC I know of. While reviews had the MSI 6600GT the quietest 6600GT reviewed it's fan at 100% speed would have been the loudest thing in my HTPC. But with the T-Balancer under load only needs 55 to 60%v to fan running VMR9 (even kicked up +8 on both antiliasing & anisotropic filtering), so so much quietier.

We've got a couple recessed floods on dimmers in the AV area too. I agree with Stanger, dimmed they ARE more noticable than my HTPC too!

[g808]

Sounds very cool (sorry for the pun).

I'm glad it worked out so great for you guys. I'll have to keep this in mind. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by g808

Sounds very cool (sorry for the pun).

Ah, you're just blowing hot air!

[stanger89]

FWIW,

I figured out that some Panaflos have RPM sensors and some don't. Apparently the BX (as apposed to A) models have sensors. Apparently the L1BX's are really rare, but 3dcool has the M1BXs:
https://www.3dcool.com/Details.asp?i...&cid=79&id=212

I never would have considered them before, but with the T-Balancer, I'm thinking of picking up a few.

Just have to decide if I want to pick up another TB for my workstation on the same order.

On another subject, mdmint, how well are your sensors sticking?

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by stanger89

FWIW,

I figured out that some Panaflos have RPM sensors and some don't. Apparently the BX (as apposed to A) models have sensors. Apparently the L1BX's are really rare, but 3dcool has the M1BXs:
https://www.3dcool.com/Details.asp?i...&cid=79&id=212

I never would have considered them before, but with the T-Balancer, I'm thinking of picking up a few.

Just have to decide if I want to pick up another TB for my workstation on the same order.

On another subject, mdmint, how well are your sensors sticking?

Now that's really stupid (and IMO misleading) on Panaflo's part. The LA1s have the yellow RPM wire but no sensor so the wire isn't doing anything. Atleast on the 120mm M1A there's no yellow wire so it's obvious why no RPM detected.

Sensor wise as far as I know they're holding ok. It's a PIA to take out of AV stack so haven't physically checked but temp readings are as they should be. If concerned could always augment with household cement. (I wouldn't use superglue as directions suggested if wanting more secure attachment. Might want to remove sensor some day!)

Additional TB(s) wise, yeah I'm considering the same for both my main workstation and Sage Server. Got a couple of those Pyramids, they be going back. Such junk compared to T-Balancer.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mdmint

Now that's really stupid (and IMO misleading) on Panaflo's part. The LA1s have the yellow RPM wire but no sensor so the wire isn't doing anything. Atleast on the 120mm M1A there's no yellow wire so it's obvious why no RPM detected.

In defense of Panaflo, I don't think they sell them with wires, some of my L1A's have the sensor wire some don't, it seems to depend on where you get them.

Sensor wise as far as I know they're holding ok. It's a PIA to take out of AV stack so haven't physically checked but temp readings are as they should be. If concerned could always augment with household cement. (I wouldn't use superglue as directions suggested if wanting more secure attachment. Might want to remove sensor some day!)

Did yours come with the weird clear stuf for "tape"? FWIW, CA glue (CyanoAcrylate), aka superglue, doesn't stick to metal really well, it's not terribly hard to get off rather smooth metal, and there's also solvent available Fortunately I've never HAD to try any solvent

Additional TB(s) wise, yeah I'm considering the same for both my main workstation and Sage Server. Got a couple of those Pyramids, they be going back. Such junk compared to T-Balancer.

It was kind of funny, I was looking for info on the Panaflo's sensor and T-Balancer and ran across a thread at Anand IIRC, and there was one poster who kept insisting (paraphrasing) "You can make a silent PC for a lot less than $80, you'd have to be stupid to buy one of those".

What a useless thing. You can buy who knows how many panaflow LA1's and nexus fan controllers for that. I don't even hear my computer and thats all I have.

I couldn't help but laugh a little. After several years pursuing the silent PC, I've realized that building a silent PC is NOT a cheap endeavor. You can't just buy Panaflo L1A's and expect it to be quiet. I had Panaflo's running at 5V and while quiet, well it's not enough. I liked this response:

If you'r deff and sure you're Delta running 4900rpm is silent i guess you might wanna pass this.

Ah well...

Although it did just occur to me that M1BX might not be great if it won't run at low voltage... Is it worth it to experiment??? Maybe....

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Did yours come with the weird clear stuf for "tape"? FWIW, CA glue (CyanoAcrylate), aka superglue, doesn't stick to metal really well, it's not terribly hard to get off rather smooth metal, and there's also solvent available Fortunately I've never HAD to try any solvent

Same.

Although it did just occur to me that M1BX might not be great if it won't run at low voltage... Is it worth it to experiment??? Maybe....

If they behave similar to LA1s likely ok, but you're right, only one way to know for sure! The LA1s dropped dead when reducing voltage from max around 20 to 25% IRRC. Once dead no life 'till almost 100%. So I set their curve min to 35% which is working fine for me.

[stanger89]

Right now, I'm actually thinking of giving the SilenX ones a try.