So what is sage media center?

[Hector]

Good post.

Apparently DirecTV isn't worried about the name.

Link to press release

Originally Posted by ruel

and if microsoft gives any grief about the "media center" name -- which i think is a very generic category name -- then the sage product could always be called the "SageTV Digital Entertainment Center" where "Digital Entertainment Center" (DEC) is yet another category name that is being used for these sorts of products. or use some other name.

[Opus4]

I know stanger89 already said something along these lines & you replied to that, but...

Originally Posted by Hector

You're too kind. I think it's more that NONE of the issues people were concerned about were included.

If you reread my post, I think you'll see that I was trying to say that perhaps Frey hasn't mentioned everything that is to come, regardless of whether it ever gets mentioned at CES. I just got the feeling that some people seemed to think that if a press release doesn't cover their favorite topic, that's the end of that topic.

I do think I misworded what I previously said. I shouldn't have said that the releases didn't cover many of the requests for SageTV (Windows)... what I thought I meant was that they simply haven't said _anything_ about what would be in the next version of what we are all using currently, since the releases so far have covered _nothing_ about plans for additional features in the SageTV we are using. I see that as simply meaning they haven't publicized anything yet, not that there are no such plans. To me, releasing no info is different than saying there will be no changes.

Why not wait to see what will be in the next version before complaining that features aren't in it? My guess is that, as usual, v3 will contain some things we've wanted, while missing some others. How's that for a predicition??

- Andy

[stanger89]

One comment about consumer Linux support. More of a question I've had while thinking of it, which leads me to believe it's not likely.

What about the drivers? What about the decoders?

Last time I checked there were no official drivers for any TV cards in linux, (just reverse engineered ivtv drivers) and no commercial decoders. Those two things there would make consumer linux version very unlikely, at least until that situation changes.

And Hector, I agree that a cable box with Sage embedded would be, I'll use the word Stock (but wouldn't it be cool if it could run custom STVs? ), but here's the cool part I'm thinking of, it's made up of a couple things:
I don't see us getting cablecard compatible tuners any time soon (hope I'm wrong).
SageClient doesn't give direct access to the files

Based on that, in the crazy world in my head , I can see possibilities, where you could get a cable box running Sage Media Center Linux OEM, you could then run SageClient on Windows boxen, MVPs, etc, and have access to anything from the cable box. In my dream world (which is feasible) that would include HD channels, premium channels, and they'd all be in first generation quality, no analog conversions, re-MPEG encoding like we do now. No IR blasters or serial control.

Of course, I don't really expect that to happen, but it's an interesting possibility.

[Hector]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I know stanger89 already said something along these lines & you replied to that, but...If you reread my post, I think you'll see that I was trying to say that perhaps Frey hasn't mentioned everything that is to come, regardless of whether it ever gets mentioned at CES. I just got the feeling that some people seemed to think that if a press release doesn't cover their favorite topic, that's the end of that topic.

I understand your point. I guess the issue is that this is the first thing with any meat in it that Frey has had to say in months and it doesn't address anything their current customers generally care about. Perhaps there is a forthcoming statement that will address current customer concerns but I don't see any thing in the past that would lead me to believe it.

Why not wait to see what will be in the next version before complaining that features aren't in it?

Honestly I don't thinkthis is about particular features as much as it is the companies direction and where existing customers fit into the future.

My guess is that, as usual, v3 will contain some things we've wanted, while missing some others. How's that for a predicition??

Boy you don't just GET to be a moderator do ya?

[IKK]

I heard Divx 6 is comming out. It is suppose to give HD quality recording with the ability to record a full 8 gig DVD on a 4 gig disk using a red laser. This is also comming out in early 2005. I wonder if there is a connection.

[Hector]

Yep you're right about that. So make it an OEM problem. I don't think a small company has much choice.

As for STB's, you do realize you're talking about renting Sage?

Originally Posted by stanger89

One comment about consumer Linux support. More of a question I've had while thinking of it, which leads me to believe it's not likely.

What about the drivers? What about the decoders?

Last time I checked there were no official drivers for any TV cards in linux, (just reverse engineered ivtv drivers) and no commercial decoders. Those two things there would make consumer linux version very unlikely, at least until that situation changes.

And Hector, I agree that a cable box with Sage embedded would be, I'll use the word Stock (but wouldn't it be cool if it could run custom STVs? ), but here's the cool part I'm thinking of, it's made up of a couple things:
I don't see us getting cablecard compatible tuners any time soon (hope I'm wrong).
SageClient doesn't give direct access to the files

Based on that, in the crazy world in my head , I can see possibilities, where you could get a cable box running Sage Media Center Linux OEM, you could then run SageClient on Windows boxen, MVPs, etc, and have access to anything from the cable box. In my dream world (which is feasible) that would include HD channels, premium channels, and they'd all be in first generation quality, no analog conversions, re-MPEG encoding like we do now. No IR blasters or serial control.

Of course, I don't really expect that to happen, but it's an interesting possibility.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by stanger89

One comment about consumer Linux support. More of a question I've had while thinking of it, which leads me to believe it's not likely.

What about the drivers? What about the decoders?

Last time I checked there were no official drivers for any TV cards in linux, (just reverse engineered ivtv drivers) and no commercial decoders. Those two things there would make consumer linux version very unlikely, at least until that situation changes.

And Hector, I agree that a cable box with Sage embedded would be, I'll use the word Stock (but wouldn't it be cool if it could run custom STVs? ), but here's the cool part I'm thinking of, it's made up of a couple things:
I don't see us getting cablecard compatible tuners any time soon (hope I'm wrong).
SageClient doesn't give direct access to the files

Based on that, in the crazy world in my head , I can see possibilities, where you could get a cable box running Sage Media Center Linux OEM, you could then run SageClient on Windows boxen, MVPs, etc, and have access to anything from the cable box. In my dream world (which is feasible) that would include HD channels, premium channels, and they'd all be in first generation quality, no analog conversions, re-MPEG encoding like we do now. No IR blasters or serial control.

Of course, I don't really expect that to happen, but it's an interesting possibility.

Yea, dead on channel changes that are fast! What would be really cool is to be able to connect this "Sage STB" to your network so all the shows it records are stored on your computers for "near endless storage" compared to the TIVOs.

Lots and lots of possibilities!

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Hector

Yep you're right about that. So make it an OEM problem. I don't think a small company has much choice.

As for STB's, you do realize you're talking about renting Sage?

I'll probably regret posting this later but...

My fear on this whole OEM/STB thing is that Frey will probably have to add DRM to the code for anyone to use this in a STB. Once DRM goes in the product I'm not sure what affect that will have on us.

[AJ Bertelson]

Originally Posted by Cayars

I'll probably regret posting this later but...

My fear on this whole OEM/STB thing is that Frey will probably have to add DRM to the code for anyone to use this in a STB. Once DRM goes in the product I'm not sure what affect that will have on us.

you aren't the only one concerned with that either.

[Hector]

Agreed 100%. In a way it's too bad PVR technology didn't appear until after DTV/HD proliferated.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by AJ Bertelson

you aren't the only one concerned with that either.

[mikesm]

I for one welcome Linux support. It has far more robust 1394 support than Windows does, and allows for the possibility of merging in some of the MythTV code base. Also, it will allow for a tighter software config that makes it easier for OEM's to package Sage in a dedicated hardware configuration that is shipped as a package with no configuration needed. OEM distribution will help Sage sell more units, and that enable them to develop more features. OEM's will need Studio for branding an integrating other features, which is why an OEM version would have to include studio.

I stopped by the booths yesterday at CES but didn't find the Sage guys around when I visited. Maybe today, and I could get more info. They definitely had Sage running on an MVP in the Huappauge booth. A little clunky but looked just like the PC client.

BTW, for those going to CES, you can see MythTV running in the Transmeta booth. They had deactivated a number of features (like DVD ripping) in the boxes in the booth, but still nice to see it out in the open.

Lots of Linux embedded in DVR solutions at the show this year. A definite trend. Esp given Gates demo of Media Center crashing at the keynote yesterday morning.

PS DRM is pretty easy to remove in the Linux environment - look at folks' experience with hacking Tivo's and such. If you use the main Linux tools for playb ack and other functions, you have to add in DRM somehow, and that generally makes it pretty compartmented, and therefore easier to remove. :-)

Thanks,
Mike

[Cayars]

So that's a first-hand confirmation of the Extender using the MediaMVP.

Good enough for me. BTW, if/when you go back and you get a chance to ask questions find out if the MVP will be able to play AC3 audio and if it will do DivX.

Also of course, find out as much as possible as to what is new in version 3.

PS the demo crashing on Gates must have really, really pissed him off.

[phenixdragon]

I think with Linux support Fry should include a way to install the basic parts of the OS that is needed with Sage, such as it really just being its own OS and stuff like TiVo. Users who don't know Linux could just jump right in but popping in a install CD and it will do it on it's own. Otherwise Linux is nice but it won't keep Sage a power house. Most uses would opt for Windows since they understand it.

[Ryokurin]

Originally Posted by IKK

I heard Divx 6 is comming out. It is suppose to give HD quality recording with the ability to record a full 8 gig DVD on a 4 gig disk using a red laser. This is also comming out in early 2005. I wonder if there is a connection.

if you look at Divx Fusion (the current beta on their site) you can see kind of how its going to be. frankly I see it more as an evolutionary step than anything revolutionary. I still say that the the future of high quality codecs is going to be the AVC based codecs myself. this is a good read on the subject. http://www.doom9.org/codecs-104-1.htm

[jptaz]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

I think with Linux support Fry should include a way to install the basic parts of the OS that is needed with Sage, such as it really just being its own OS and stuff like TiVo. Users who don't know Linux could just jump right in but popping in a install CD and it will do it on it's own. Otherwise Linux is nice but it won't keep Sage a power house. Most uses would opt for Windows since they understand it.

I suspect that Linux support will only be available to OEMs. Frey does not have the staff to support a Linux product for the Masses. The announcement is more geared toward OEM market where not spending a fortune on Microsoft Licensing and developing a custom STB on license is much easier on Linux.

John

[Opus4]

The extender is the MVP. No question about it; it is being shown, so it is public.

Anyone see this page: SageTV linux box pic at PC World.com? The caption below the pic (3/4 ways down the page) reads:

Originally Posted by PC World

SageTV Media Center software now runs on Linux. Prices for the box, which will ship in first quarter 2005, begin at $400; media extenders to hook up additional TV sets will cost $99.

- Andy

[Hector]

I agree with John. Anyone who has doubts should take a look at the Myth support groups/lists. A linux solution is an absolute nightmare to support unless you nail it down to reference hardware like Tivo does. Then its one driver for one type of video card etc all not just tweaked but DESIGNED to run together. People on the Tivo forums don't ask questions about video codecs because its irrelevant to them. Its all been decided, they don't even need keyboards

Don't think Sage software running on Linux, think pvr appliance whose OS is irrelevant to you. The market they're targeting is not the same we geeks er . . edge players are in. My opinion of course.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by jptaz

I suspect that Linux support will only be available to OEMs. Frey does not have the staff to support a Linux product for the Masses. The announcement is more geared toward OEM market where not spending a fortune on Microsoft Licensing and developing a custom STB on license is much easier on Linux.

John

[Hector]

Wow talk about nailing a prophecy. To the second, heh.

Originally Posted by Hector

Don't think Sage software running on Linux, think pvr appliance whose OS is irrelevant to you. The market they're targeting is not the same we geeks er . . edge players are in. My opinion of course.

Originally Posted by Opus4

The extender is the MVP. No question about it; it is being shown, so it is public.

Anyone see this page: SageTV linux box pic at PC World.com? The caption below the pic (3/4 ways down the page) reads:

- Andy

[Opus4]

Since it is being shown publicly at CES, this can't be secret either... I also know that the UI is being redone. Some of the changes are on display there, including a completely redesigned playback OSD. All of these systems use the same STV, so the look & feel is the same across the Windows system, linux box, and extender/MVP. I keep reading that some forum members are out there, so maybe someone will take some pics.

- Andy

[Hector]

Yep sameness is the key. It's an interesting offering. Arguably better than Tivo without the subscription fees. $400 is a little high for a pvr box nowadays, but not for someone building an HTPC with quality video output and hd size. Once it's a total solution then Sage also gets judged by quality of the hardware. Use a lower end software decoder and its going to be the box whose picture stinks compared to Tivo's (hardware decoder). So a lot depends on the company the software keeps. So all in all the quality of the configuration and now its positioned will be interesting.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by Opus4

Since it is being shown publicly at CES, this can't be secret either... I also know that the UI is being redone. Some of the changes are on display there, including a completely redesigned playback OSD. All of these systems use the same STV, so the look & feel is the same across the Windows system, linux box, and extender/MVP. I keep reading that some forum members are out there, so maybe someone will take some pics.

- Andy