Come Back to SageTV - Open Source in "Near" Future

[valnar]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It does well enough for 95% of the use cases out there, and is by far the cheapest.

Not once you add a Digi+, FLIRC, etc to get it up to an HD300 experience.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

To a degree a chromebox can be had for $170. The rasberry can get expensive like you said depending on how your dress it up. My issue it the issues I have had in past with PI playing videos smoothly.

I don't think the Pi's greatest appeal is cost: the one I use for playback probably has about $120 in it. I think standardization is the main selling point. You can go get a proven, good microSD card and/or wifi adapter, purchase a couple of codecs, do a one-time setup for overclocking and HDMI output specs, and install an OS or media playback platform.

From that point virtually all of the hardware variability issues are eliminated. All one would have to do from there would make software-level tweaks as needed and be able to achieve smooth playback for AC-3 and DTS (passthrough) 1080p files at bitrates of 30Mbps or more.

I also don't think the Pi is the only option for a relatively-easy client. I have a couple of Android STBs, Android tablets, a Fire TV Stick, and a Chromecast dongle, so I'll run with whatever works ...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

I disagree that the Pi is way too techy, people on this forum should easily be able to handle setting up a Pi or Pi 2. I would think a Pi 2 as a low end extender and a Chromebox as a higher end extender would be a good option.

FWIW, I wasn't talking about "us", I was talking about friends, family, people to attract a wider audience.

Coincidentally, I was at a family birthday party yesterday, and a couple of us got to talking about TV, they'd recently "cut the cord" and were trying to figure out their TV setup. It started with antenna placement, but where the discussion ended up was basically with how to get TV (including live) to various TVs through the house.

An "available" Sage, I think would be a perfect fit for them. And they're smart folks and I'm sure they could get a Pi to work, but personally I would not want to recommend something like that to them. On the other hand, Sage with a Roku app, I'd recommend that in a minute.

If some people can't handle setting up a Pi or a Chromebox that just leaves an opportunity for someone to sell preconfigured boxes like some people are doing with the the Pi and XBMC/Kodi.

But for something simple/basic, why require new hardware? Assuming development effort is similar, wouldn't a Roku app be better? I mean a Roku is similar in cost to a Pi, but gets you access to "2000" channels including the popular ones like Netflix and Amazon. You don't get that with a Pi. And the format capabilities are similar.

I think you'd have a lot better time convincing someone to buy a Roku than a Pi, unless they're a tinkerer.

Frankly I think the Pi is way oversold, tinkerers love it, but it's basically a development kit, not an end user product.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But for something simple/basic, why require new hardware? Assuming development effort is similar, wouldn't a Roku app be better? I mean a Roku is similar in cost to a Pi, but gets you access to "2000" channels including the popular ones like Netflix and Amazon. You don't get that with a Pi. And the format capabilities are similar.

Roku's don't support mpeg2. Maybe that's not a complete dealbreaker, but it seems like a pretty big deal. To me, on-the-fly transcoding is a pain. But, I suppose the user experience isn't hugely different from, say, Netflix on a Roku. The main difference is that you do more skipping in a recording than you do in Netflix (to fast forward through commercials).

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Oh.. yeah, I've never purchased a case, the thing is just stuck to the back of the TV, and I just threw ResPlex on a junk SD card I had laying around.

This is how my Pi is put together as well. I have never really used mine for anything but testing Kodi but if I need a case I figure I can grab some Legos and make something.

I considered the Pi2 but decided my next toy project will be one of these:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...ute-stick.html

Really waiting for a reputable vendor to offer them stateside. Supposed to be around $150 but have seen versions of them around for about $125. Runs Windows or Linux.

Personally I would run Windows but there is no reason you could not create a Custom Linux distro with SageTV client much like Raspbmc. (Which I run on my current Pi)
And...then run it on any Intel hardware.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

If setting up a Pi is too much trouble, why would they want to set up and maintain a SageTV server?

I almost made this comment, although I'm not sure I agree. I tend to agree that anyone that could set up and maintain a server ought to be able to set up a Pi. But, I still think it might scare away some people that might have the technical ability, but are looking for something a little more polished.

It also significantly helps if the client is something that people already have, or would otherwise be useful. A Pi isn't exactly expensive, but a Pi+microSD+power supply+flirc is still going to be ~$70.

[BitBass]

I'm coming into the conversation kind of late, so maybe this has been discussed. Why not focus on IOS and Android apps that support Chromecasting? Is it a problem with media support? I know it supports AC3 passthrough, but I don't see DTS.

[Stu Gare]

Wouldn't using an android or similar be a drop in picture quality, I like playing back my blu Rays. What is quality like on chrome cast?

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

If setting up a Pi is too much trouble, why would they want to set up and maintain a SageTV server?

If you are OTA-only with HDHR as your tuner - as I am - it's incredibly easy. Look no further than non-techie me as your prime example.

I was like the people stanger89 is talking about, except in 2008. My wife said "if you can find a "Tivo-like" DVR solution for OTA, we'll cut the cord". I snooped around on the AVS forum and someone pointed me to SageTV because of the extenders, which took all the work (and required knowledge) out of having a server... not to mention the horsepower requirement. I had an old beater PC that had been my mother-in-law's, and used it as my original server, and it worked fine with 3 HD100s at TVs in the house, and two HDHRs fed from an attic antenna. Anyone could set that up.

More and more of my friends and co-workers are talking about cutting the cord and face the same concerns that stanger talked about. I would love to be able to tell them "I have an easy solution for you". And as I posted several pages back in this thread, even my wife's soccer mom friends want SageTV when they see it at our house.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by BitBass

I'm coming into the conversation kind of late, so maybe this has been discussed. Why not focus on IOS and Android apps that support Chromecasting? Is it a problem with media support? I know it supports AC3 passthrough, but I don't see DTS.

First, I'm not a big fan of needing to have my phone or tablet around to pick media. I'd rather have the UI on the TV screen and use a remote. Being able to select media and control playback via an app might be a nice feature, but I don't think its an alternative.

Second, Chromecast has its own set of problems. It doesn't support mpeg2, and even if it did, the wifi-only network interface would create problems. In my own testing, it seems to choke on blu-ray rips, and even high-bitrate encoded video. I'm not sure how much of that was wifi related and how much is limited by the video decoders.

But, there does seem to be fairly significant interest in support for mobile apps and common streamers, like Roku. So, if this pans out, I would expect to see some work done on the on-the-fly transcoder. I'd hate to put up with a transcoder for my "normal" usage, since skipping through commercials might be moderately painful.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by reggie14

But, there does seem to be fairly significant interest in support for mobile apps and common streamers, like Roku. So, if this pans out, I would expect to see some work done on the on-the-fly transcoder. I'd hate to put up with a transcoder for my "normal" usage, since skipping through commercials might be moderately painful.

FWIW transcoding has gotten ALLOT better than it use to be (ie plex handles everything pretty well to the roku 3) I agree it isn't ideal but for second viewing rooms never been an issue for me. I only have the "best" tv in the main watching rooms.

[maninblack_30]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

What would be great for people that are scared to mess around with a PC would be if SageTV could be run on an off the shelf NAS, me I love playing with hardware, At one time I had OTA, FTA DVB-S2, 4DTV C band with R5000 HD and DirecTV via an HD PVR running on my SageTV server. I used TVedia with an X-card and then moved to Media Portal before SageTV.

I can't wait to see if I can get the server to run on a Synology NAS, but need to wait until the open source linux version is released with no license key.
Imagine, HDHomerun tuners, NAS, and extenders - would be magic!

Fraser

[bclenney]

I don't like Roku at all and I love my FireTV. I'm hoping an app can be made for it. Then I'll be able to watch everything - SageTV, Amazon, Sling, Netflix, etc from the same device.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by bclenney

I don't like Roku at all and I love my FireTV. I'm hoping an app can be made for it. Then I'll be able to watch everything - SageTV, Amazon, Sling, Netflix, etc from the same device.

That's funny I hate fireTV's interface it's too amazon centric on the main screen

[Pelicanjoe]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

That's funny I hate fireTV's interface it's too amazon centric on the main screen

Same here! Love my Roku 3!

[7up]

Originally Posted by bclenney

I don't like Roku at all and I love my FireTV. I'm hoping an app can be made for it. Then I'll be able to watch everything - SageTV, Amazon, Sling, Netflix, etc from the same device.

Unless someone figures out how to enable mpeg2 decoding in Fire TV, you will be quite disappointed with it running a SageTV app unless you wish to envoke a seizure.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

That's funny I hate fireTV's interface it's too amazon centric on the main screen.

If there's one thing we all learned when Sage v7 first hit the street - if not before that - it's that preference in UI is like preference in music or art. Everyone has their own opinion and you can't ever make everyone happy (which is why the customizable UIs are best).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I almost made this comment, although I'm not sure I agree. I tend to agree that anyone that could set up and maintain a server ought to be able to set up a Pi. But, I still think it might scare away some people that might have the technical ability, but are looking for something a little more polished.

It also significantly helps if the client is something that people already have, or would otherwise be useful. A Pi isn't exactly expensive, but a Pi+microSD+power supply+flirc is still going to be ~$70.

This is really what I was getting at. Not that a Pi is hard to setup (I imagine it's not), but it's likely too "intimidating" for people who don't want to tinker.

Originally Posted by Stu Gare

Wouldn't using an android or similar be a drop in picture quality, I like playing back my blu Rays. What is quality like on chrome cast?

I think we have to admit that the "premier" playback device is no longer going to be an extender type. Going forward, I think other than the existing HD300s, I think we're going to have to look at PC based devices, starting with something like a Chromebox at the bottom end.

Hardware devices are pretty limited, and outside of "app" based solutions like Roku, Android, iOS, I think require lots of device specific programming to get the most out of them (hardware SDKs, etc).

Originally Posted by Wayneb

What would be great for people that are scared to mess around with a PC would be if SageTV could be run on an off the shelf NAS...

I'd imagine a Docker container for unRAID would be pretty easy to set up.

[PiX64]

Not sure if I am alone on this or not, but without the proper apps to work on popular STBs, I am less likely to move back.

I have very capable streamers already that do everything I want. Introducing yet another stb of some sort that pretty well serves 1 function for me live tv and dvr (already replicated via TabloTV) its not likely to move back fulltime.

That being said, if sage have proper integration with everything else we use (Pandora, google Play Music, Amazon Instant, Netflix, SlingTV, etc.) then i personally would be more willing to jump back in with both feet.

That being said I really want sage to live on and even if i don't use it fulltime in my house i will def still contribute and help.

SageTV IMO is still the best PVR/DVR with the most complete set of PVR/DVR functionality I have ever seen or used

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'd imagine a Docker container for unRAID would be pretty easy to set up.

This is what I'm hoping for myself.