Android TV

[stanger89]

Unfortunately there's potentially a significant difference between an "STB" and a DVR system.

[CADweasel]

My hopes for Android TV is that since they have not shown us any hardware they will allow manufacturers to add their own features (apps?) that will provide for recording from a video source. Hauppauge or SiliconDust could make their own set top box integrating their hardware encoding prowess in a package including tuners and space for a hard drive. This model would be similar to what is happening with Android phone manufacturers today.

[BobbyDing]

So it seems Silicon Dust will have an app on Android TV.

http://www.silicondust.com/company/news/

That covers live TV. Plex (or that great app from Stuckless) will cover personal libraries. Now we just need a DVR app! Oh, and we need to tie them all together in one app
.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by BobbyDing

... That covers live TV. Plex (or that great app from Stuckless) will cover personal libraries. Now we just need a DVR app! Oh, and we need to tie them all together in one app

Well not quite, I doubt the Silicon Dust app is going to support DRM either, which kills anything for some of us, and most of us going forward as CC's start to encrypt everything.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Well not quite, I doubt the Silicon Dust app is going to support DRM either, which kills anything for some of us, and most of us going forward as CC's start to encrypt everything.

When my cable company started migrating from analog to digital they actually unencrypted most of the digital channels My HVR-2250 is now tuning digital and analog channels along with the HDHR Prime.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

When my cable company started migrating from analog to digital they actually unencrypted most of the digital channels My HVR-2250 is now tuning digital and analog channels along with the HDHR Prime.

See aren't you glad you left NY? I was just the opposite, it started wide open then went encrypted, every HD channel is DRM'd including locals.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Well not quite, I doubt the Silicon Dust app is going to support DRM either, which kills anything for some of us, and most of us going forward as CC's start to encrypt everything.

Looking at the app description, I think the SiliconDust app already supports DRM.

But, I think the DRM will kill any chance for a DVR app.

Plus, there's probably a good chance that Android TV devices won't support mpeg2 or DTS. I don't think even AC3 decoding is a given, although I imagine it's a little more likely.

[tchapin]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

I mean, a few friends I know that used an AppleTv and then tried the Amazon Fire, were blown away by it. As stupid as that sounds, it was only because of the 1080p support which is lacking in most versions of AppleTv.

Well, yeah, the old versions didn't have 1080p support, but it has since 2012. There have been 4 versions of the AppleTV, two of which didn't support 1080p, so it would be correct to say that half didn't. But the older versions supported 780p, which at the time was what most people's TVs could handle, so it's not like they were out of step with the industry.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Looking at the app description, I think the SiliconDust app already supports DRM.

But, I think the DRM will kill any chance for a DVR app.

Plus, there's probably a good chance that Android TV devices won't support mpeg2 or DTS. I don't think even AC3 decoding is a given, although I imagine it's a little more likely.

Yes you can View DRM channels. in fact all your Cable subscribed channels. I watch them on my NEXUS 7.
http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/vi...p?f=78&t=16528

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

Yes you can View DRM channels. in fact all your Cable subscribed channels. I watch them on my NEXUS 7.
http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/vi...p?f=78&t=16528

How does it work with HD? It must be doing mpeg2 decoding in software.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by reggie14

How does it work with HD? It must be doing mpeg2 decoding in software.

HD 720 plays but has problems with 108Oi on my Nexus 7. It plays all the SD channels with no problems Comcast in my area transmits via cable the channels in HD and SD. So overall I am quite happy. I believe it does hardware decoding. I am sure the Newer Nexuses can handle all HD quit well.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

HD 720 plays but has problems with 108Oi on my Nexus 7. It plays all the SD channels with no problems Comcast in my area transmits via cable the channels in HD and SD. So overall I am quite happy. I believe it does hardware decoding. I am sure the Newer Nexuses can handle all HD quit well.

I'm pretty sure the Nexus devices don't support mpeg2 decoding in hardware. The hardware support is there, but it's not enabled, likely due to licensing. Since I unlocked and rooted my Nexus 7, I tried some mods in the past to enable mpeg2 decoding without any luck.

I just tried the HDHR View app on my 2013 Nexus 7. SD material plays well. 720p material almost plays well- its usually pretty good, but occasionally freezes. 1080i playback is best described as a slideshow. If I'm reading the CPU usage stats correctly, it looks like the CPU is basically pegged. CPU usage is much, much higher in the HDHR View app than DicePlayer playing back H.264 content. I'd be incredibly surprised if its doing hardware decoding.

Now, I guess I'm not entirely sure the problem is definitely CPU usage instead of bandwidth limitations, but the fact that 720p content almost plays back suggests (to me, at least) that its CPU-bound. Admittedly, though, I haven't found the wifi chip in the Nexus 7-2013 tablet to be terribly reliable. In raw speed, it's fast enough, but it's not reliably fast like my 3x3 antenna 802.11n bridges are.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I'm pretty sure the Nexus devices don't support mpeg2 decoding in hardware. The hardware support is there, but it's not enabled, likely due to licensing. Since I unlocked and rooted my Nexus 7, I tried some mods in the past to enable mpeg2 decoding without any luck.

I just tried the HDHR View app on my 2013 Nexus 7. SD material plays well. 720p material almost plays well- its usually pretty good, but occasionally freezes. 1080i playback is best described as a slideshow. If I'm reading the CPU usage stats correctly, it looks like the CPU is basically pegged. CPU usage is much, much higher in the HDHR View app than DicePlayer playing back H.264 content. I'd be incredibly surprised if its doing hardware decoding.

Now, I guess I'm not entirely sure the problem is definitely CPU usage instead of bandwidth limitations, but the fact that 720p content almost plays back suggests (to me, at least) that its CPU-bound. Admittedly, though, I haven't found the wifi chip in the Nexus 7-2013 tablet to be terribly reliable. In raw speed, it's fast enough, but it's not reliably fast like my 3x3 antenna 802.11n bridges are.

I also found this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...omeRunTV&hl=en great as long as you use VPLAYER. Which you can set to use HW Decoder it can play all the streams. Except DRM.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

I also found this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...omeRunTV&hl=en great as long as you use VPLAYER. Which you can set to use HW Decoder it can play all the streams. Except DRM.

Again, I'm fairly certain the HW mpeg2 decoder isn't accessible on a Nexus 7. For example, I can't select the HW mpeg2 decoder in MX Player.

Have you actually been able to verify that HW acceleration works on your Nexus 7? Have you tried looking at CPU usage?

[tvmaster2]

Just watched TWIT - This Week In Google, ep. 255...they seemed very confused over this weeks Android TV press conference.

They didn't mention Sage in any way, although there are times when I think Leo Laporte and friends don't realize Sage is part of the Android family, albeit in the background.

Overall, they spent most of the time talking about Chromecast, and pushing your phone apps to a bigger screen.

They did say there was NO "box" being presented, and that of all the Android announcements made this week, Android TV was the weakest product.

Kinda sad

[stanger89]

Sage isn't really part of Android, I would say, Sage is part of Google Fiber, which may interact with Android, but is really a separate thing, and, as best we've been able to figure out, seems to be managed completely separately from anything Android.

[reggie14]

Yeah, I haven't seen anything that suggests Google Fiber TV boxes run Android. I doubt they do.

It's too bad, as they could have been a natural way for these pieces to come together. Obviously Google is somewhat interested in bringing live TV to the Android TV, given the work they've done with SiliconDust. It's disappointing that they didn't take the next step and add DVR.

I had to think this is the end of the road for Sage. It will presumably live on with Fiber TV, but I don't think we'll see it outside that. If it didn't happen with Android TV, I don't think it will ever happen. Google seems to have their heads set on Internet streaming, which is probably more sensible for the long-term anyway. You can add live TV streaming pretty cheaply, but a DVR would up the cost a fair bit.

[stanger89]

Well can you blame them? With the move to HD analog signals are basically gone. Clear cable is hit-or-miss, and cablecard/DRM is a nightmare to work with (licensing, etc). On top of that DVRs are getting better, to the point where they might even be good enough for some of us.

OK, here for a bit of heresy. I'm not even sure I'd be interested in Google Fiber DVR it it were available to me. I've read nothing to indicate you can install customizations (Comskip), and last I read, it didn't really support networked media either. It seems to me, aside from the lineage (based of SageTV 7), there's really nothing to distinguish Google Fiber SageTV, from Hopper, Genie, or any of the other current whole-house DVRs available. They're all "different" but are any really better?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by stanger89

...OK, here for a bit of heresy. I'm not even sure I'd be interested in Google Fiber DVR it it were available to me. I've read nothing to indicate you can install customizations (Comskip),

Nope. No customizations.

and last I read, it didn't really support networked media either.

No networked media either. So far it only supports media you copy onto their network box - so it sort of does, but not in a way you or I would appreciate.

It seems to me, aside from the lineage (based of SageTV 7), there's really nothing to distinguish Google Fiber SageTV, from Hopper, Genie, or any of the other current whole-house DVRs available. They're all "different" but are any really better?

They really cut out a lot of the flexibility of SageTV to make it easier to support and easier for the regular folk to use. I think some of the cool stuff will slowly come back, but so far it's not that much better than the competition in terms of the TV stuff. It does have 8 tuners built in, record to the one network box server and therefore record once watch on any box etc. There is a lot that is familiar to SageTV users though. I like the YouTube functionality, the Vudu app, the Netflix app, and the unified search capabilities. I love the ability to record any channel on any of the 8 tuners without ever having to mess with which tuner is Lots of other good stuff in there that I need to get down into words some day.

Oh, and the down & up internet speeds are really, really nice.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well can you blame them? With the move to HD analog signals are basically gone. Clear cable is hit-or-miss, and cablecard/DRM is a nightmare to work with (licensing, etc). On top of that DVRs are getting better, to the point where they might even be good enough for some of us.

OTA, clearQAM and CableCard are at least good enough that they're willing to support live TV. They just (apparently) don't have enough interest to add the EPG, scheduling, storage, and DRM capabilities for DVR.

CableCard could certainly be a lot better, but it's good enough that one company has managed to made a moderately successful product around it. And Microsoft probably could have had moderate success with WMC if the company hadn't lost interest by the time they mostly got it working.

I think Google could use CableCard just as well as TiVo. They could probably even sell enough things to recoup licensing cost. But a company like Google is going to look for a lot more than just that, and I'm not convinced there's much of a market out there for 3rd party DVRs.

Originally Posted by stanger89

OK, here for a bit of heresy. I'm not even sure I'd be interested in Google Fiber DVR it it were available to me. I've read nothing to indicate you can install customizations (Comskip), and last I read, it didn't really support networked media either. It seems to me, aside from the lineage (based of SageTV 7), there's really nothing to distinguish Google Fiber SageTV, from Hopper, Genie, or any of the other current whole-house DVRs available. They're all "different" but are any really better?

I hear you- in many ways it would be a step down from from what we have. I'd trade off many things, like customizations and comskip, just to have something currently supported. But, I'd want to keep expandable storage and the client-server model. Plex is good enough I'd probably look past lack of local media support.

I'd probably switch to Google Fiber TV if I had the chance- the support plus the ability to stream to mobile devices would be big wins for me. But, it would be even better if this was part of Android TV. I imagine we'll see some apps there to help with things like local media playback.