My Adventures with Google Fiber - from a SageTV guy

[jbuszkie]

Do they at least have 30 or 10 sec skip ahead and rewind?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

Do they at least have 30 or 10 sec skip ahead and rewind?

Definitely. And you can customize how long of a skip it is too just like you could with SageTV. So really it isn't THAT big of a deal, but we were spoiled with the commercial detection over the past many years.

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by Brent

Definitely. And you can customize how long of a skip it is too just like you could with SageTV. So really it isn't THAT big of a deal, but we were spoiled with the commercial detection over the past many years.

Cool! I was afraid they would be forced to take that out.. didn't TIVO remove the skipping from pressure from the networks? don't they only have the smoothe FF and RW? Or am I remembering something different.

Jim

[Brent]

I do still plan on doing a more in-depth "review" of Google Fiber on www.geektonic.com soon.

Couple of topics I want to cover:
1. How fast is it really?
2. Google Fiber TV - User Interface, what it can do, what it can't do)
3. Customer Service compared to TWC, Dish etc
4. Online Video with Google Fiber (Netflix, YouTube, Vudu)
5. SageTV Inside
6. What I'm doing for movie & music now

I think that covers it. I'll try to address anyone's questions mentioned here and other places as well. Work continues to fill up my spare time so I'm squeezing in the blog posts whenever I can do it.

[ccsmoke]

Thanks for the great detailed write up!

Was wondering if that box is getting SuperHD Netflix, I think you might be able to tell by typing in Example Short 23.976 in the search bar. Some devices give more information than others. It doesn't give you special icons for the higher bitrate. I believe the chromecast is capable if the ISP is.

Thanks,

Scott

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Brent

I have no idea what their long-term plans are, but I would think there is still a chance we could see the TV-part of Google Fiber (the TV Boxes etc) outside of GF someday. The big question is what kind of tuner support would they put inside.

It is a positive thought that at least in the last year, a google employee has been writing a HDHomeRun plugin for google fiber. I don't see how that would make any sense within the google fiber bubble unless it was to market the box for use outside the bubble. It would not take much of a leap at all to market the 'storage box' and the 'tv box' as dvr and extender, and couple it with an HDHR-Prime with your current cable provider. Only difference would be a different tuner source plugin, and the right EPG lineups. This would likely still allow them their likely 'better than neilsen' viewership tracking, while expanding the eyeball base to a much larger audience.

As far as the TV side of things, this would not be a different experience than the current fiber TV system - and not really be a significantly different support experience either, other than ensuring proper cablecard authorization.

[pjpjpjpj]

If they added HDHR support, they could market multiple tiers of service and thus hit a broader base of customers. Saying "you get internet and TV only, or internet only with no TV, those are your only options" immediately loses them the "cord cutter" demographic. And from all we hear, the younger generation is headed that way - less and less interest in paying for cable TV. So I think Google is smart enough to see that, and is building in an intermediate tier, one where they provide internet and EPG data for your own, separately-provided TV feed. This would set them apart from cable companies. Also, based on what you hear with contractual stuff from satellite providers, it seem that contracting to provide local TV through the cable/fiber isn't easy or cheap, so maybe this gives Google a means to say "we provide the pay stuff, you provide your own locals".

I know I'm in the minority here (but a growing minority), but I only have OTA. We supplement it with PlayOn online stuff through Sage. If GF came to my city and all they were offering was internet plus "cable" (pay) TV, I wouldn't consider it. If all they were offering were faster internet, I doubt I would pay the significantly-larger amount just for that (the only convenience it would offer us is faster downloading of streamed stuff from online, and really that isn't much of a hassle for us now). But if they had that intermediate package where they would be like Sage is for us now - providing faster internet and also encompassing all of our current OTA TV stuff into one package, while providing EPG data and DVR functionality - we would consider it.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

If they added HDHR support, they could market multiple tiers of service and thus hit a broader base of customers. Saying "you get internet and TV only, or internet only with no TV, those are your only options" immediately loses them the "cord cutter" demographic. And from all we hear, the younger generation is headed that way - less and less interest in paying for cable TV. So I think Google is smart enough to see that, and is building in an intermediate tier, one where they provide internet and EPG data for your own, separately-provided TV feed. This would set them apart from cable companies. Also, based on what you hear with contractual stuff from satellite providers, it seem that contracting to provide local TV through the cable/fiber isn't easy or cheap, so maybe this gives Google a means to say "we provide the pay stuff, you provide your own locals".

I know I'm in the minority here (but a growing minority), but I only have OTA. We supplement it with PlayOn online stuff through Sage. If GF came to my city and all they were offering was internet plus "cable" (pay) TV, I wouldn't consider it. If all they were offering were faster internet, I doubt I would pay the significantly-larger amount just for that (the only convenience it would offer us is faster downloading of streamed stuff from online, and really that isn't much of a hassle for us now). But if they had that intermediate package where they would be like Sage is for us now - providing faster internet and also encompassing all of our current OTA TV stuff into one package, while providing EPG data and DVR functionality - we would consider it.

Isn't 'internet only with no TV' exactly the cord cutter demographic, and what everyone of them has now? Just buy a Tivo if all you want is a DVR for your OTA TV.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Isn't 'internet only with no TV' exactly the cord cutter demographic, and what everyone of them has now? Just buy a Tivo if all you want is a DVR for your OTA TV.

I could, but my parents couldn't. The average person wants it all installed in one visit from the "cable guy". They don't want to have to buy and install a whole-house Tivo system and an antenna themselves. GF being able to offer it all as one package allows the GF guy to set it up when he comes to your house, with no work by the consumer. As was said above, it's all about making a simple, dummy-proof package that requires no work by the consumer - installer comes once, puts it in, and you are done. And if they have more levels available of that "one-time visit, now it all works" stuff, they appeal to a broader swath of people.

Remember, they aren't doing this with the intent of only gaining tech-savvy people as customers. There aren't enough to make it a viable investment. They have to not only wow the average joe with what they provide, but they need to make it so easy and seamless to switch from their current system that even the most tech-ignorant person is willing to make the switch. That's how DirecTV first got their foot in the door against cable companies - they offered a better product for a competitive price, but more importantly, made the switch completely painless to the end user.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by Brent

I do still plan on doing a more in-depth "review" of Google Fiber on www.geektonic.com soon.

Couple of topics I want to cover:
1. How fast is it really?
2. Google Fiber TV - User Interface, what it can do, what it can't do)
3. Customer Service compared to TWC, Dish etc
4. Online Video with Google Fiber (Netflix, YouTube, Vudu)
5. SageTV Inside
6. What I'm doing for movie & music now

I think that covers it. I'll try to address anyone's questions mentioned here and other places as well. Work continues to fill up my spare time so I'm squeezing in the blog posts whenever I can do it.

Oh sure, rub it in! "Hey, look what my system can do that yours can't.... hey hey, nanna boo boo"

Just kidding, I for one eagerly await an in depth review of Google Fiber and more importantly Google(Sage)TV.

[tmiranda]

Always keep in mind that Google has usually supported "open" systems such as Android. It's not beyond belief that they will somehow allow Google FiberTV to be "open". They will have to ensure that DRM isn't violated which may or may not be a show-stopper. I just don't know enough about DRM technology to say for sure.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Always keep in mind that Google has usually supported "open" systems such as Android. It's not beyond belief that they will somehow allow Google FiberTV to be "open". They will have to ensure that DRM isn't violated which may or may not be a show-stopper. I just don't know enough about DRM technology to say for sure.

Honestly, if you read the requirements of the CableLabs certification for a cablecard device, it is not THAT limiting. It allows output through unprotected paths as long as it is degraded quality (resolution). This would technically allow conversion to mobile friendly lower-rez outputs, which, conveniently, could then be processed by comskip - and this would still be technically compliant with the standard. The device just cannot output full quality streams unencrypted.

[dgeezer]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The device just cannot output full quality streams unencrypted.

Hmm. Doesn't the new transcoding HDHomerun Prime technically do this by transcoding to a lower bitrate file. For my normal TV viewing I'm not that picky about quality anyway. Maybe there will be a decent replacement, or upgrade, to my SageTV system someday.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I don't want google fiber - I just want a SageTV 8, with CableCard/AllVid/Whatever DRM support to allow premium content "properly" without hacks/workarounds/exploits.

While we are dreaming, my ideal product would be Google Fiber for internet services (1Gbps bidirectionally) and a streaming video service that combines movie and TV. I want to be able to watch any movie at any time on my TVs, PCs and mobile devices. - kind of like Netflix but with a much more complete catalog of movies. And I want to be able to watch any TV show, including live sports, with DVR capabilities from the minute that the program starts. I am willing to pay $200 per month for this (internet + TV).

Hollywood, et al, would get as much revenue as they are getting today and I would be able to get all of the content that I want, when I want and where I want. But there are too many vested interests keeping us from getting there and not everyone is willing to pay this much.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by wayner

While we are dreaming, my ideal product would be Google Fiber for internet services (1Gbps bidirectionally) and a streaming video service that combines movie and TV. I want to be able to watch any movie at any time on my TVs, PCs and mobile devices. - kind of like Netflix but with a much more complete catalog of movies. And I want to be able to watch any TV show, including live sports, with DVR capabilities from the minute that the program starts. I am willing to pay $200 per month for this (internet + TV).

Hollywood, et al, would get as much revenue as they are getting today and I would be able to get all of the content that I want, when I want and where I want. But there are too many vested interests keeping us from getting there and not everyone is willing to pay this much.

Other than sports, we could be pretty close to that wish - at least in the cities Google Fiber is in. Sports is a big missing one though. Vudu offers the movies albeit at a steep cost, Netflix supplements with movies & TV.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Brent

Other than sports, we could be pretty close to that wish - at least in the cities Google Fiber is in. Sports is a big missing one though. Vudu offers the movies albeit at a steep cost, Netflix supplements with movies & TV.

We all are anxiously awaiting your blog reviews, but is it safe to assume that GF does not have ESPN and does not carry your local channels?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

We all are anxiously awaiting your blog reviews, but is it safe to assume that GF does not have ESPN and does not carry your local channels?

No, I was referring to the goal of all-online channels all available on-demand instead of the traditional cable model as mentioned by wayner. Google Fiber TV carries about everything. Major missing ones I know of are AMC channel and there is also no HBO Go online capability that goes with the premium channels. They supposedly continue to work on negotiating with those last few networks though.

Here's the TV lineup in KC

https://fiber.google.com/cities/kansascity/channels/

[nycjoe]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

Anyone have enough time to compile the ffmpeg and see if it is a drop in replacement?

That could be a way to make use of new video formats.

Is there any format that isn't currently supported? I've never come across one... "./ffmpeg -codecs" shows supported codecs and "./ffmpeg -formats" shows supported containers.

I work with some ffmpeg contributors so I can ask them to help if you can think of something that doesn't work

[KryptoNyte]

Brent, thanks for the updates. It's pretty neat to see the fruits of the SageTV developer's work over all these years.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

Thanks for the great detailed write up!

Was wondering if that box is getting SuperHD Netflix, I think you might be able to tell by typing in Example Short 23.976 in the search bar. Some devices give more information than others. It doesn't give you special icons for the higher bitrate. I believe the chromecast is capable if the ISP is.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott,
Finally got around to this this evening. Yes, The Google Fiber TV box is getting SuperHD Netflix. To be certain I ran the "Example Short 23.976".