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General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies. |
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#41
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Do I really need a VM? I have yet to learn anything about it, and given my backlog of stuff to-do and to-learn, i'd really rather not add on to that list.
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#42
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A VM is just like a dedicated machine. Based on his last sentence I would say no you do not need a VM either. He was just explaining his usage.
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#43
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__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT Software: SageTV 7 |
#44
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I probably missed some of it because I try to skip past all the RTFM/RTFW posts that usually appear when questions are asked that are not really explained in the wiki as completely as needed (for my specific instance anyway - just haven't asked them yet because I've been waiting for all the bug reports to subside first).
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#45
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So...you've got a lot of posts in the bug report thread, plus a bunch of general stuff. I literally did a 20 second scan, just to get a flavor. I have not spent ANY time scanning those forums. How much time did it take you to get this up to speed & running? I ask because the nice thing about the RocketRaid is that I can just go buy 5 4TB disks and walk away. But as I type this, I realize that card is now 6-7 years old, and even if I don't suffer a multi-disk failure, the card itself could fail. Which would suck. So perhaps a plan B is a good thing. I wouldn't mind spending some time to get this set up, but I'm hoping its closer to SageTV learning curve, and not CQC learning curve (aka, weeks & weeks) |
#46
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#47
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Quite honestly, there's zero learning curve on tRAID. You primarily need to understand what DRU, PPU, Verify, Verify+, and Verify Sync is, as well as how to swap out a failing disk and then restore it. I am still having issues recording to the array, but I haven't had time to try out the latest build to see if that resolves it. While I love the software and I'm confident the developer will help me track down and fix any issues, I think the "customer service" needs improvement. If the software was free, it would be different.
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Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT Software: SageTV 7 |
#48
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Thanks for the reply. By the above, do you mean you cannot get SageTV to record TV to the array? That'd be a fatal flaw for me, as the whole point of my rebuild is to generate 12TB of space for Sage.
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#49
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With my setup, that's correct. However, that doesn't mean that you wouldn't be able to. I've been having issues with my setup for a while now (before tRAID), so everything could work just fine in your scenario.
__________________
Server: XP, SuperMicro X9SAE-V, i7 3770T, Thermalright Archon SB-E, 32GB Corsair DDR3, 2 x IBM M1015, Corsair HX1000W PSU, CoolerMaster CM Storm Stryker case Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 3.5" bays, 1 x Addonics 4-in-1 2.5" bay, 24TB Client: Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (HTTP tuning), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT Software: SageTV 7 |
#50
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I wouldn't expect recording to a tRAID or unRAID array would work terribly well. You pay a pretty significant performance penalty on writes. I don't know exactly how tRAID works, but I would think any non-striping RAID would be somewhat similar to unRAID. For each write, you're going to have to read what was previously there, read what's in the corresponding parity location, then write to both locations.
I would thinking with multiple read/write streams at once would be too much for the array. Imagine 3 simultaneous recordings, 2 playback streams, and possibly one or two comskip processes running. Maybe I've just had extraordinarily good luck with hard drives, but in 13 years I've only had two drives fail, only one of which actually led to data loss (I was able to pull data off the other failing drive). I've preemptively replaced a couple others when they started acting a bit weird or made weird noises. With that history, I'm not overly concerned about losing my recording drives. If one fails I'd be a little annoyed, but I wouldn't care that much. I'd be more annoyed if I lost things like DVD/blu-ray rips, especially since some of that stuff I reencoded in Handbrake, but even that wouldn't be a huge deal if I lost a drive. I do store that stuff on an unRAID array, though, to provide some protection against failures. So, I just keep my recording drives separate. I also configured Sage to use the "bandwidth" recording option, so that it records shows onto different drives. That seemed to help moved my server onto a machine that ran comskip much faster. |
#51
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__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer) unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers. Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA. Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room |
#52
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For me, the increased CPU speed was a problem when comskip was running. I was having trouble with playback for a while when too many things were running off one drive (comskip, a couple recordings, and a couple playback streams). Quote:
All this intuitively makes sense. 40-50MB/sec is about half speed for modern hard drives. That performance hit makes sense, though, since for each logical write to the drive you have to do a read and a write (actually, you have to do two reads and two writes, though each pair are done mostly in parallel on different drives). I'm not sure what you mean when you say tRAID has some striping. I thought it worked very similarly to unRAID- files are written to individual drives, and there's a dedicated parity drive. In this case, the parity drive is going to be seeking like mad when you have multiple writes going on. I don't see why you think you'd get near native performance. |
#53
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As for the 'striping' I had talked about, I wasn't meaning traditional striping, I was referring to tRAID's transparent nature. The data drives (DRU) are not pooled, they are left as natively accessed drives. tRAID simply reads those as they are written, and stores parity information on the PPU's. This leaves you with the ability to still reference the DRU's individually, so you can still use sage's 'Bandwidth' mode, and spread recordngs across drives. yes, the PPU's would still be thrashing about, but that should not limit write speed.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer) unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers. Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA. Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room |
#54
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I'm pretty sure tRAID calculates and writes parity in real-time. You might be thinking of the older, related product, FlexRAID (which I think is now referred to as Snapshop RAID). I could be wrong, though. I can't keep all the different versions straight.
If parity is written in real-time, I think you might end up with worse performance by writing to different drives than writing to the same one. At least if you're writing to a single drive it will tend to write the streams roughly sequentially on the drive. If you're writing to two different drives, the writes will be in completely different areas of the drives, making the parity drive work very hard to keep up. Maybe it would still make sense if you think you're going to have lots of reads as you write. |
#55
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So I guess the thing I need to look for is whether anyone is actually writing to a tRaid system with multiple concurrent HD streams. For whatever reason, I never had an issue with my RocketRaid doing 2 HD OTA and 1 HDPVR stream at once, although the above dialogue seems to indicate that I should have had issues since the limitation would be the disks.
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#56
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The short answer is that you may a pretty significant write performance penalty when you use tRAID or unRAID. That penalty doesn't apply to traditional RAID setups, like a RAID 0/1/5. It sounds like you were previously using a RAID 5 array. In that case, writes (and reads) are basically split across all the drives in the array equally (including parity writes). Since these operations are done in parallel, you can end with with better performance than with a single drive. I said "can" because RAID5 will also suffer from a write performance penalty for small writes. It's pretty similar to the problem with unRAID and tRAID- in order to write to one drive, you need to read from the others. We're mostly talking about sequential writes, where this isn't as much of a problem. For our use case, I would expect write performance in a RAID5 would be better than that for a single drive. The bottleneck in tRAID/unRAID setups is the parity drive. Every write operation to a data drive results in a read and a write on the parity drive. Intuitively, it should be fairly clear that the overall write performance to the array can't exceed about half the speed of the parity drive. I would think recording to a RAID5 would work fine. But I'm still skeptical about using something like unRAID/tRAID for recordings. I think I remember seeing posts from people using unRAID, so you can get away with it if your I/O demands aren't too high, but performance is going to be worse than than native performance. |
#57
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I think I pointed you over to flexraid on google+. I don't directly record to my flexraid pool. I use an old SSD drive I had sitting around. Then every few days I move all the files to my flexraid pool and restart SageTV. I like this for a few reasons. 1.) I can record and even scan all my inputs at the same time. i.e. 2 hd homeruns, and run comskip on them. (i.e. no head thrashing). 2.) I assume it keeps all the completed shows on the same drive, or close to the same drive as possible in flexraid. (based on other advice for items such as sabnzb I found on the flexraid forum). 3.) Restart seems to keep things moving quickly. i.e. clears up garbage collection for Java. |
#58
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If I recall, you need to modify your WizBin if you change the drive letter something is recorded on, is that correct? What other steps do you need to do during that move?
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#59
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If you move a file in sage, all it takes is performing a re-scan of the import folders. Sage will see the file in the new location, recognize it as the same file, adding it to the database at that location, and will also see it disappear from the old location, so it will remove that entry. The only time you end up with problems, is if the old file's location no longer exists (meaning the folder itself is gone). If that happens, then sage will NOT remove it from the database, instead leaving it there thinking a drive has been removed or something.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer) unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers. Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA. Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room |
#60
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and there is NEVER a reason to 'modify your wiz.bin'. That is asking for problems.
__________________
Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer) unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers. Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA. Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room |
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