Google Fiber

[MickBurke]

As hardware goes, I'd be happy if I could just get my hands on Sage HD200's or 300's to replace what I've got when they go bad. We use them all day most days to differing degrees.

[wayner]

Check out the buy/sell forum - used HD-200s are going for around $200 which is not bad considering the price and functionality of the Ceton Echo.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

Check out the buy/sell forum - used HD-200s are going for around $200 which is not bad considering the price and functionality of the Ceton Echo.

For the going prices of HD300's, I'm more tempted to build PC's instead. The cheapest bare bones level APU style systems can more than handle anything the HD300 can, not use a LOT more power - and can be perpetually upgraded/replaced. I remember 4 or 5 years ago, when the HD100's came out, there was a constant debate on whether the extenders were better or worse than a client PC. Even at the time, the biggest argument against the extenders was that they were proprietary hardware, with a single source - which is why I had run clients through all that time. I can always build up a PC, or even pick up one for a hundred bucks at a yard sale/craigslist, that can perform every bit as well as an extender, and my license will always work on it.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

For the going prices of HD300's, I'm more tempted to build PC's instead. The cheapest bare bones level APU style systems can more than handle anything the HD300 can, not use a LOT more power - and can be perpetually upgraded/replaced. I remember 4 or 5 years ago, when the HD100's came out, there was a constant debate on whether the extenders were better or worse than a client PC. Even at the time, the biggest argument against the extenders was that they were proprietary hardware, with a single source - which is why I had run clients through all that time. I can always build up a PC, or even pick up one for a hundred bucks at a yard sale/craigslist, that can perform every bit as well as an extender, and my license will always work on it.

Someone just the other day here priced a new client out at under $250 (not including Windows OS costs). And it probably beats the crap out of clients I built 5 years ago for more than twice that.

[Fuzzy]

things like the e350 system can easily handle it, and they are dirt cheap (barebones for like $130). In Fact:
a 5 minute build on newegg (not the cheapest, but what they've got):
$124.99 - Foxconn SFF R10-A1 AMD e350 APU AMD A45 Radeon HD6310 Barebones
$ 34.99 - Kingston 8GB DDR3 1066 (2x4GB)
$ 99.99 - Windows 7 - OEM
----------------------------------
$259.97

And this would have FAR better performance than an HD300. I didn't include a HDD, because it is relatively uninportant to a client (performance wise). Any old junker laying around would work, though i personally, would be just as happy network booting it from the server - which is why there is 8GB of RAM for a larger local cache of the server side iSCSI target.

Also, realize how much the windows 7 license is of the system. If you already have a win7 license laying around (or can acquire one via a trashed craigslist pc, for instance), it's even cheaper than an HD200.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Any old junker laying around would work, though i personally, would be just as happy network booting it from the server - which is why there is 8GB of RAM for a larger local cache of the server side iSCSI target.

I'd probably just toss in the cheapest SSD I could find. This one seems to fit the bill for $30 ($50 is you don't trust rebates).

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I can always build up a PC, or even pick up one for a hundred bucks at a yard sale/craigslist, that can perform every bit as well as an extender, and my license will always work on it.

I always worry about the esoteric things, like getting 24Hz video right, which I'm pretty sure my HD300 does, really good deinterlacing, etc.

Somebody needs to start re-selling a dedicated SageTV clients, pre-configured for perfect playback

Drew

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I remember 4 or 5 years ago, when the HD100's came out, there was a constant debate on whether the extenders were better or worse than a client PC. Even at the time, the biggest argument against the extenders was that they were proprietary hardware, with a single source - which is why I had run clients through all that time.

And the biggest (mine at least) reason to go extenders was they play back media essentially perfect first time, every time, without any of the issues decoders or Windows drivers, or EDID quirks, or any of the lot.

Case in point I built a brand new, super overkill PC, DQ77KB, i7 3770k (I wanted the HD4000 graphics), 16GB ram, fresh install of Windows 7, and the latest Intel graphics drivers. Got it all installed and things seemed happy, plugged it into my AVM50V and was welcomed with a system that simply would not sync to any resolution other than 720p.

I tried poking around the EDID a bit, making a custom resolutions, etc, but reconfirmed that I want something that works, and I no longer have the interest/patience to debug such issues. And that's just a simple one, all I wanted was 1080p60, my 50V reports it supports it, yet I could not get Windows/the PC to sync to that resolution, it should be easy, it should be plug and play, but it's not, like far, far too much when you use PCs as sources.

[pjpjpjpj]

C'mon, Fuzzy, do you have to turn this thread into (another) "PC Client vs. HDx99 extender" debate? Don't we have enough of those?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

And the biggest (mine at least) reason to go extenders was they play back media essentially perfect first time, every time, without any of the issues decoders or Windows drivers, or EDID quirks, or any of the lot.

Case in point I built a brand new, super overkill PC, DQ77KB, i7 3770k (I wanted the HD4000 graphics), 16GB ram, fresh install of Windows 7, and the latest Intel graphics drivers. Got it all installed and things seemed happy, plugged it into my AVM50V and was welcomed with a system that simply would not sync to any resolution other than 720p.

I tried poking around the EDID a bit, making a custom resolutions, etc, but reconfirmed that I want something that works, and I no longer have the interest/patience to debug such issues. And that's just a simple one, all I wanted was 1080p60, my 50V reports it supports it, yet I could not get Windows/the PC to sync to that resolution, it should be easy, it should be plug and play, but it's not, like far, far too much when you use PCs as sources.

I guess that's why I've never understood the argument - I have never had any of those problems - not with my old Philips LCoS set, the Samsung DLP set that replaced it, or my cheap LG LCD in the bedroom. I have heard of so many more compatibility complaints from the likes of those 'small company - premium AV' branded equipment than any 'consumer' grade equipment.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

C'mon, Fuzzy, do you have to turn this thread into (another) "PC Client vs. HDx99 extender" debate? Don't we have enough of those?

Not starting a debate... just saying 'I told you so'...

[skyeclad]

Personally a server that serves as a client in my family room a 2 extenders for bedrooms.

I would love a standalone server with expandable storage or network storage and a thin client that just works with everything thrown at it.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by skyeclad

Personally a server that serves as a client in my family room a 2 extenders for bedrooms.

I would love a standalone server with expandable storage or network storage and a thin client that just works with everything thrown at it.

Isn't that what SageTV is?

[jjstok]

Originally Posted by skyeclad

While it might not be a true Google Fiber product, some new "sagetv" hardware, in the form of that stand alone device hinted at is something we could really use right now! Well maybe something that I could really use. My server is starting to feel a little old and I'd love to know what Google's plan is for non-GF TV's.

I just had a long chat with a Google Fiber rep that seemed pretty interested in SageTV questions. To be honest I was suprised he was familiar with any SageTV info at all. I was going to paste some info but the session ended and I lost all the convo. He did some checking apparently and said there is no hardware related to Fiber that will act as or replace the HD300\extender. I voiced my concern about the abrupt halt of SageTV and such and he volunteered to forward my concerns...

So I'm sure someone super important will take notice of anyone felt left out to dry and take care of everyone... Just like the real world.

[Brent]

Google Fiber Rep's are college graduates (mostly) that Google hired to handle customer service and sales during the launch - like the week or so just before they began pre-registrations in KC. They may (most don't) know that SageTV is inside, but they won't know much more than that. So I wouldn't get too excited about anything you learned from one of the reps

It is my understanding that there is a chance my old HD300 will work as some sort of extender on the Google Fiber TV network once installed in my home. I'm basing that on a conversation with someone who should know more than a Google Fiber Rep... The other thing of importance here is the new GoogleFiberTV devices are basically extenders like the nice HD300's we know and love/like.

That could change, but that's my current understanding.

[wayner]

Has there been any talk of a Google Fiber mobile app? Obviously Android would be the most likely but if GF is very similar to Sage then can we hope for something else that I have wanted since I got my first iPad - a full tablet client of Sage (really just a mobile client of GF pointed at a SageTV server).

[Brent]

Originally Posted by wayner

Has there been any talk of a Google Fiber mobile app? Obviously Android would be the most likely but if GF is very similar to Sage then can we hope for something else that I have wanted since I got my first iPad - a full tablet client of Sage (really just a mobile client of GF pointed at a SageTV server).

There is a Android App (you can see a photo of it on the Nexus 7 here. They are giving away a Nexus 7 tablet to those of us who subscribe to the whole, fiber+TV package and that Nexus 7 has the TV app already loaded on it. I saw it when I did the Google Fiber Space tour and it looked good & worked well. Not sure about an iOS app, but I wonder if the reliable SageTV Webserver might work with it.... We should ask nielm

One thing I remember from that hands-on I had during my tour is that the mobile app didn't handle playback/streaming of Video or LiveTV at that point although they seemed to think it was in the possible future plans

[wayner]

I don't know about nielm - his last post was over three years ago.

But the Sage webserver does work fine on an iPad but it doesn 't really allow you to playback content and you don't have a very nice UI and it really doesn't provide much functionality around browsing your video library.

The streaming kind-of works from the mobile Sage webserver but struggles with 1080i content. Same with TiSageTV by Fonceur and other streaming apps like Air Video. Some of them work ok for linearly playing content but when you treat to seek forward or back it generally dies.

Then there are the other options like Plex for iOS and various XBMC like UIs.

But it would be great to have a UI for tablets that is essentially the same as what you see on your PC or extender.

Maybe we can talk the Gemstone guys into releasing a Gemstone UI for iOS?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

Maybe we can talk the Gemstone guys into releasing a Gemstone UI for iOS?

It would be a tough sell. Mostly because they would be creating an entire UI from scratch - not porting anything over. About as far as I'd recommend going with something like this would be a new UI, using the vfs flows, and utilizing fanart, and go from there (much like Stuckless's 'Phoenix App for android). It actually works quite well, has fanart and all. Just no playback on the device (which is always going to be the problem).

For device playback, I've had really good results with Splashtop. I have it installed on my master bedroom client PC, and it is very watchable over 4G (and good 3G) on both my Xoom and my Razr. The default sage UI isn't really easy to use via a touch-screen - which is another reason to go with a purpose built browsing app, launching to a network stream, once one is made android compatable...

[wayner]

I will try Splashtop again but I found it a bit laggy for full motion video, even on my LAN.

[wayner]

To bring together three threads that I have posted on in the last little while, the Android app could also be very useful, espeically if it added video playback, on a Raspberry Pi for a very inexpensive extender if and when Android for the RPi is released.