Alternative but questions..

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by sagestuff

Thanks! I would much prefer not putting another piece of hardware on the network if I don't need too - one more thing to break! :-) Will be great to hear how Eric got the dlna working w/out the HIC. Thanks!

He had some things come up the other day when i asked him, so ill get the specifics and post for you to review.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by PiX64

He had some things come up the other day when i asked him, so ill get the specifics and post for you to review.

Just talked to Eric and got some more details. I was WRONG about the HIC...sorry. He did use the HIC, he just go around using the TAP portion of the setup as he didnt' have one...

darn sorry for leading anyone down a dead end path. I post the image of how to bypass the tap later tonight.

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by PiX64

Just talked to Eric and got some more details. I was WRONG about the HIC...sorry. He did use the HIC, he just go around using the TAP portion of the setup as he didnt' have one...

darn sorry for leading anyone down a dead end path. I post the image of how to bypass the tap later tonight.

No problem - thanks for confirming! I have the HIC scheduled for installation on WED afternoon. I asked them to just send it to me but the tech said he had no way to send direct and it had to be installed by a technician. Honestly I still don't really understand what the HIC is or what it does except hopefully establish internet connectivity for the Dish boxes and enable dlna. :-)

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Great write-up, sagestuff.

Seems like there's a lot of stuff planned that isn't available yet, though... the downside of being an early adopter?

As for files such as .mkv - something I just thought of - there's a PlayOn plugin called "LocalFiles". With it, through PlayOn, you can navigate your server's hard drives (maybe even network drives, I don't know) and find your files. If I remember correctly, you have to set up the file paths within the PlayOn UI on your server, but then you can see whatever is in that path. I don't think it works for DVDs (and probably not BD) but it likely works for .mkv. I just tested it as I type this and it played the 1080p .MTS files that my camcorder produces flawlessly on my iPod Touch, so I'm guessing it can handle some pretty tough other file types, as long as your server can handle the on-the-fly transcoding.

Thanks pjpjpjpj! I do intend to give that PlayOn plugin a try to see how it works and will report back. Hopefully the HIC install will go well tomorrow and I will be able to test it out. I was planning to convert the DVDs I had ripped to my server as .mkv format (don't use the DVD menus a lot anyway) and likely into a compressed (mpeg) format for remote viewing.

Thanks!

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by sagestuff

No problem - thanks for confirming! I have the HIC scheduled for installation on WED afternoon. I asked them to just send it to me but the tech said he had no way to send direct and it had to be installed by a technician. Honestly I still don't really understand what the HIC is or what it does except hopefully establish internet connectivity for the Dish boxes and enable dlna. :-)

Here is what he did:

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by PiX64

Here is what he did:

Thanks! I'm scheduled to get the HIC this afternoon so hoping to see tonight if it will get the dlna working from me! That wiring diagram helps a lot!

[tomatodave]

I called Dish yesterday to get the costs of the 2 Hoppers, 3 Joeys, 1 sling adapter and Hopper internet connector. I was at least somewhat amused by the support person's lack of knowledge of the system.

I inquired about the system described above. I also included some stipulations about system,
1)I want 2 Hoppers mostly for the additional tuners and disk space. I want to put both Hoppers in the living room with only 1 hooked to a TV. All other TVs are wall mounted and no good place to conceal a Hopper.

2)The other 3 TVs would be attached by Joeys. I do not was any Joeys mirroring another Joey. All joeys need to be able to access each Hopper.

3)All TV locations need to be able to access and play .mkv files and audio on my home network.

The support person kept telling me that this all was possible but was setting up the order for 2 hoppers and 2 joeys (instead of 3) and said that the installer would have to figure out the wiring. She also said no mirrored joeys but repeatedly said just the opposite later. There seemed to be a problem with having a hopper without a TV connected. What am I not seeing here.

So far this is making me want to keep Sage, but I want to expand my system. I guess the install price of $200 plus almost that much more would get me an extender on ebay.

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by sagestuff

Thanks! I'm scheduled to get the HIC this afternoon so hoping to see tonight if it will get the dlna working from me! That wiring diagram helps a lot!

Got the HIC installed today and dlna fired right up. I am able to access PlayOn & TVersity off of my media server. PlayOn provides me access to Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc and for being BETA the Home Media component of PlayOn seems to have a pretty decent start. I have already encountered a # of bugs but it is BETA.

Once you go into the home media option on the Dish box it is easy to switch between "Devices" (media streaming apps on the media server). I want to identify the other apps supported on the Dish Box and take a look at them.

Gonna to try to get some DVDs converted to .mkv files tonight to test accessing them through PlayOn & TVersity.

I can try to post some screen shots of the Dish Interface & Home Media options this weekend if there is interest.

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by tomatodave

I called Dish yesterday to get the costs of the 2 Hoppers, 3 Joeys, 1 sling adapter and Hopper internet connector. I was at least somewhat amused by the support person's lack of knowledge of the system.

I inquired about the system described above. I also included some stipulations about system,
1)I want 2 Hoppers mostly for the additional tuners and disk space. I want to put both Hoppers in the living room with only 1 hooked to a TV. All other TVs are wall mounted and no good place to conceal a Hopper.

2)The other 3 TVs would be attached by Joeys. I do not was any Joeys mirroring another Joey. All joeys need to be able to access each Hopper.

3)All TV locations need to be able to access and play .mkv files and audio on my home network.

The support person kept telling me that this all was possible but was setting up the order for 2 hoppers and 2 joeys (instead of 3) and said that the installer would have to figure out the wiring. She also said no mirrored joeys but repeatedly said just the opposite later. There seemed to be a problem with having a hopper without a TV connected. What am I not seeing here.

So far this is making me want to keep Sage, but I want to expand my system. I guess the install price of $200 plus almost that much more would get me an extender on ebay.

tomatodave, the lack of training some of the Dish folks have on the new system is an issue. I got some wrong answers to questions of the rep that setup my order as well. The techs have also received relatively minimal training but the guys that did my install were doing their best to work everything out.

From what I hear you describe above that seems like a viable setup for the system and actually comes close to my setup. The primary difference on mine is that the Hoppers are on separate TVs.

1) As long as you have the needed connectivity for both Hoppers (MOCA Coax & Network) you should be good. You can setup the 2nd Hopper not connected to any TV and basically access it from the Joey's. You will be able to access either Hopper from any Joey but it will currently require you to switch the Hopper it connects to in settings - not a huge deal. Supposedly one of the enhancements will be to integrate the interface so that having 2 Hoppers still looks like having one and you have access to all content on all boxes. You cannot currently access one Hopper from the other Hopper but does not sound like that would be an issue for you.

2) 3 Joeys access the Hoppers should not be an issue. I currently have 2 Joeys hitting one Hopper and the other accessing the other Hopper. I just now tested switching the Joey in my office to the other Hopper and it worked giving me access to all of its content.

3) I am going to try to test streaming .mkv files through PlayOn tonight / tomorrow and will let you know how that goes.

NOTE: Make sure that if you do go with Dish you do the 24 TV Everywhere "Test Drive". I got a rebate coupon after I did it for a $30 rebate on a sling so one of mine was basically free.

It is a big change switching over from Sage and comes with some compromises but the Dish system seems like the most promising out of the box provider based solution I've come across so far. I do hope that they don't drop the ball on software updates and keep those coming.

[tomatodave]

sagestuff
thanks for the update. It is very helpful. I learned more by reading your posts than i did talking to Dish for a half an hour, thank you.

So, i am glad to hear that my thinking on how to setup this system was not far off. The only snag, I see, is accessing both hoppers from the living room TV. It seems to me that until Hopper integration is a reality I could just connect the other Hopper to another HDMI input on that TV.

So with RG6 and Ethernet cable already existing, or easily added at each TV location I should be good.

I will still be interested in your experience with playon and streaming mkv files.

and thanks for the tip about TV Everywhere.

Next, will be the question of can I really give up Sage TV? As much as I have tinkered with it to get everything just right - it's almost like raising a child and watching them move out.

But then again I would have 3 extenders and 2 HDPVR's to sell on ebay.

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by tomatodave

sagestuff
thanks for the update. It is very helpful. I learned more by reading your posts than i did talking to Dish for a half an hour, thank you.

So, i am glad to hear that my thinking on how to setup this system was not far off. The only snag, I see, is accessing both hoppers from the living room TV. It seems to me that until Hopper integration is a reality I could just connect the other Hopper to another HDMI input on that TV.

So with RG6 and Ethernet cable already existing, or easily added at each TV location I should be good.

I will still be interested in your experience with playon and streaming mkv files.

and thanks for the tip about TV Everywhere.

Next, will be the question of can I really give up Sage TV? As much as I have tinkered with it to get everything just right - it's almost like raising a child and watching them move out.

But then again I would have 3 extenders and 2 HDPVR's to sell on ebay.

If you want to watch the content from that 2nd Hopper on the living room TV, until the promised "Hopper Integration" comes along, hooking up to a second HDMI is your best bet. If you have the RG6 & Ethernet at the other TVs should be good to good. Also make sure to request that the HIC be put in with the initial installation.

I got a DVD converted last night and have done some quick testing via the Dish Home Media option streaming through PlayOn & TVersity from my media server. Quality is pretty good but the only controls working are basically play & pause (no >> or <<). Looks like the issue is on the DISH side since it is the same behavior between PlayOn & TVersity. Will post more as I continue to test.

I was in the same spot with making the decision on going DISH and basically dismantling my Sage setup. I had been with Sage a long time and spent a lot of hours building my system from a single tuner card capturing basic cable displayed only on my PC to a whole home system.
Honestly my biggest fear is the speed at which DISH will enhance this system. It seems like a really good start to me but it can be a lot better. To a degree I think it will feel like a step back for any Sage user who switches over but it comes down to the unknown future of Sage and honestly for me deciding that I would rather spend the hours that I used to spend on my Sage setup in other places. I will continue to post updates here as I learn more about the DISH setup and hopefully begin to see some upgrades coming! :-)

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by sagestuff

tomatodave, the lack of training some of the Dish folks have on the new system is an issue. I got some wrong answers to questions of the rep that setup my order as well. The techs have also received relatively minimal training but the guys that did my install were doing their best to work everything out.

A couple years ago when my street got wired for U-Verse it was pretty amusing when they sent people door to door trying to tell residents about their service.
They knew next to nothing that *I* was interested in. They were trying to tell me I could record 4 HD programs at the same time. I taught them more about their system than in a few minutes than the sum total of their training before they were sent door to door. <sigh>

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by sagestuff

Honestly my biggest fear is the speed at which DISH will enhance this system. It seems like a really good start to me but it can be a lot better.

Any way to write plugins for the Hopper/Joey?

[tomatodave]

thanks sagestuff, I really appreciate your posts. It sounds like Dish hasn't really gotten all the kinks worked out yet, but the hopper/joey system seems to be on the right track. The no << or >> is really a bummer, but chances are that will be corrected,sooner or later.

I don't want to be a bother, but I am also interested in how much functionality is really available through the Sling adapter. I travel a lot for work and use sage's placeshifter from a hotel room almost as much as I watch TV at home. Most hotel rooms now have a pretty decent flat screen TV. I plug an HDMI cable into the hotel TV and connect that to my laptop to watch Sage. I can then also use my Android phone for a remote, really works sweet. Do you see any of this as a possibility with Dish's Sling adapter? Are Playon functions available through the sling adapter?

Thanks again

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by tomatodave

thanks sagestuff, I really appreciate your posts. It sounds like Dish hasn't really gotten all the kinks worked out yet, but the hopper/joey system seems to be on the right track. The no << or >> is really a bummer, but chances are that will be corrected,sooner or later.

I don't want to be a bother, but I am also interested in how much functionality is really available through the Sling adapter. I travel a lot for work and use sage's placeshifter from a hotel room almost as much as I watch TV at home. Most hotel rooms now have a pretty decent flat screen TV. I plug an HDMI cable into the hotel TV and connect that to my laptop to watch Sage. I can then also use my Android phone for a remote, really works sweet. Do you see any of this as a possibility with Dish's Sling adapter? Are Playon functions available through the sling adapter?

Thanks again

No bother at all! I think the Sling adapter works pretty well for the limited amount I have used it so far. You can access via computer, iPhone, iPad, Android, etc so you could continue the setup you have used when you travel. It would be nice if the IOS apps had airplay capability so you could just hook up and AppleTV and stream wirelessly. The quality has seemed very good to me and have not had a lot of dropped connectivity or freezing issues. The nice thing is that you have full access to your Dish content (All Live TV programming you would have at home, DVR Watch & Set recordings, OnDemand, BlockBuster@Home). I have not seen any way to access the Home Media option through the remote apps but I figure there are workarounds for most of that content anyway including Netflix direct access, AirVideo for movie streaming, iTunes, Pandora, etc apps for music. I haven't seen another provider (a this time) provide access to all of their programming content like Dish is currently.

[sagestuff]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Any way to write plugins for the Hopper/Joey?

I am not aware of any way to do this at this point.

[sagestuff]

For some reason I had this idea stuck in my head today that it would be cool to contact someone at Dish (no idea who :-) and ask them to leverage a great group of folks (Sage Users) with a lot of Whole House DVR & Media experience as an Enhancement Focus Group / Beta Test Group. I think they would be getting some great input from a community that really understands this technology and we would get to have input into the evolution of their tools. Hate to use this term but really does sound like a "win / win" situation. Now if I could just figure out who to contact and get them to take my call! :-)

[pat_smith1969]

After many years with Sage I am fed up.. not with Sage, that is running fine and doing what it is supposed to. The problem is partially the Hauppauge-PVR but mostly it is the media carrirer (verizion Fios). In the last couple weeks I have missed 3 hockey play off games, two because VERIZION posted in the guide data that the game would be on channel x when it was actually on channel Y. I know this was not a Sage issue because when the channel changes I have the STB display the current program for a minute or so. The other, biggest issue is that the Verizion boxes frequently shut themselves down for some unknown reason. I get hours of "you can now power up your set top box".. very frustrating.

If I am going to switch providers I might as well switch from Sage too, since it is end of life. Tivo is nice, but the monthly fee sucks, and I would still need a provider, and it is expensive to get started with, and it does not browse my local media... I don't think.

So I looked at Hopper. It looks pretty good, can stream up to 4 TVs from a central repository. They claim it can access my local media so my ripped DVDs are not obsolete. It can access my photos and music too, so they claim. It records 2 shows at once and can do up to 6 during prime time (leary of this).

Anyone looked into this yet?

[tomatodave]

while I think the hopper/joey system is a reasonable alternative to Sage, I also think that it will come with many disappointments. If or rather when I get to the point that I need to expand my system I will probably switch to the hopper. Not because I think that its better but because I don't think I want to spend additional money on an end of life system.

The Dish support and information people do not seem to be all that knowledgeable. They really push the fact that the hopper can record up to 6 shows at once, which is true. What they don't mention is the circumstances that this can be done. The fact is that it has only 3 tuners, however through what they are calling a transponder dump, one of those tuners can record all 4 major networks at once, during primetime. OK that is one tuner used and 2 remaining for 6 simultaneous. Keep in mind that if you have the hopper enabled to record primetime, it will use 1 tuner for that every day whether you have a show that you want to record or not. So if you want to record 3 shows during primetime, unless at least one of the shows is on a major network you will not have enough tuners.

Another fuzzy area, where you are only told the good side of the story is the 2 T storage for recordings. It does have 2 TB harddisc storage for recordings - 1 TB for your scheduled recordings and 1 TB for the primetime major network recordings. When you enable primetime recording, those recordings are saved for 8 days automatically. The idea is that you will have watched a weekly show within that time, or you will have last week's if you missed it. For the primetime shows to be saved for longer than 8 days, they must each be manually saved - this process cannot be automated. So if you record a lot of shows on the major networks during primetime, this would be great.

I am not sold yet, but it may be a different story when I want to add a TV to my system and I am faced with ebay prices for a used extender or build/buy another computer to utilize a client license.

I think "sagestuff" has a hopper/joey system and maybe will chime in on his experience.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by tomatodave

only 3 tuners, however through what they are calling a transponder dump, one of those tuners can record all 4 major networks at once, during primetime.

That sounds a lot like what MythTV calls "multirec" (http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Record_mu..._one_multiplex), but with an asinine setup / restrictions. Eg, with MythTV if there are 4 channels on the same DTV "Multiplex" (eg, analog carrier signal), then it can also record all 4 with a single tuner by setting the hardware PID filters to capture the entire stream, and then doing PID filtering in software to filter it into 4 separate recordings. Moreover, if any 4 other random channels are also share a multiplex, it can record them also. So you could be recording 8 programs with 2 physical tuners.

With the "manual" save, it sounds like they're just capturing the entire digital stream and recording it to one file, then doing the software PID filtering to extract programs later. Seems very silly..

Drew