HDHomeRun (HDHR) Prime + SageDCT

[jlmdxtv]

Tom,

I agree with fresnoboy. Your cable company seems to be giving you the blow off because they don't want to research the matter properly or dare call their feeds provider for a solution.

I'd "stir it up" and ask them for a written response to your problem. I'd then send that response back certified to the CEO of that company (along with my total outlay/loyalty to them over the years) asking them to look into it.

Comcast pulled the same line with me about "no on demand" and "missing premiums" with the Prime (so don't use it anyway) but that didn't stop me; it got fixed after a few days of complaining.

SiliconDust support may also be able to help you with the tech questions you'd need answered.

john

[OttoNP]

For those of you running multiple HDHR, prime or otherwise, are you connecting them to separate NIC on you Sage Computer or just into a router on your local network? If I go the router route, the recordings would be on wifi network...is that fast enough? I just updated the wifi router but the wifi card on my sage computer is only g....

[evilpenguin]

You'll want your HDHR connected to the same wired network as the PC doing the recording (i.e. physically connected to the same switch or router).

Having the HDHR connected to a wireless router and having the recording PC connected to the network via wifi is a very bad idea. It may work occasionally, but most of the time the recording would end up very pixelated because the wireless won't be able to keep up with the video stream.

[OttoNP]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Having the HDHR connected to a wireless router and having the recording PC connected to the network via wifi is a very bad idea.

I tend to agree (just curious if anyone tried it) and was just wondering how people are connecting multiple HDHR...if the normal install is multiple network cards or a router..

Also, wifi G is supposedly 54 megabits per second, which in theory is
around 23.73 GB in 1 hour, which is like 8 times a HD show, so it would seem possible...but if you add more shows and other wifi traffic...

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by OttoNP

I tend to agree (just curious if anyone tried it) and was just wondering how people are connecting multiple HDHR...if the normal install is multiple network cards or a router..

Also, wifi G is supposedly 54 megabits per second, which in theory is
around 23.73 GB in 1 hour, which is like 8 times a HD show, so it would seem possible...but if you add more shows and other wifi traffic...

I don't have the option of having a wired connection, at least in the short term, so I'm going to try to use a high speed 5Ghz router and wireless N adapter. Some of these devices record at least two streams over a USB 2 connection, so I'd think anything at least that fast would be OK. The only issue is dropped packets. Anyway, I have my N router set to the highest multicast rate. I'm still waiting for the dual band adapter to get here, so at the moment I'm just using a 2.4Ghz connection, just to see that everything's hooked up.

(The wireless distance is actually only about 8 feet in my case, but I just can't put an ethernet cable in for "quasi-political" reasons.)

I'm aiming for at least a 300 to 400 megabits connection. So my Sage server computer will be connected to two different wireless networks at the same time. One is a slow G network and the other is a fast N network.

Update: Tried it on the QAM channels and at 2.4Ghz it's actually not bad on QuickTV. Every once in awhile on an HD channel fast action gets a little "weird" but that's all. I expect it to work pretty well once I get the 5Ghz installed. When I move from here in a couple of months I'll do a direct connection, though. I imagine the quality would degrade pretty quickly if the router were any significant distance away.

Well, proof of concept. The router I'm using is an Airport Extreme Base Station. The newer ones allow two simultaneous bands, but this is an older one where you have to make up your mind.

[OttoNP]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I had an HDHomeRun Prime on order from Amazon, but cancelled it. Discovered that because it uses an mpeg2 video format and doesn't resend lost packets it would have problems on a wireless network. I imagine that H.264 files and packet-loss management could be the main advantages of the Ceton card over HDHRP? Well, and one more tuner as though I really need more than three.

I don't think the Ceton card records any different. I could not find format on their site, but it says 350 gb for 50 hours, which is about mpeg file size...

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Setup process is the same as the Ceton DCT.

1) Make sure you're running 7.1.9
2) Install SageDCT
3) Shut down the SageTV Service
4) Run the SageDCT config tool, scan for devices and generate the encoder properties when all tuners are found
5) copy the results from the txt file into the sage.properties file
6) Start SageTV Service
7) Configure the capture sources to use the right lineup - you do not need to do a channel scan
8) Enjoy (I think)

Well, I'm getting the channels on QuickTV after running through the HDHomeRun Prime setup, but when I generate the argument after doing a search for the three tuners which it finds, and pasting that into Sage.Properties I get no channels. I'm pretty sure that it's pointing to the wrong address. The generated arguments are for tuners located at an address that starts with 127 (here's an example:

mmc/encoders/123456970/encoding_host=127.0.0.1\:6970

, but my tuners are actually located at 10.0.1.201 . So SageDCT is finding the tuners, but not assigning them the correct address?

BTW, since you don't mention *where* the assignment text is supposed to go in sage.properties I assume it doesn't matter? Just paste it anywhere?

Are there some more thorough instructions that I could be looking at. This isn't working. QuickTV plays the channels fine. Why isn't SageDCT picking them up?

[ranger]

127.0.0.1 is the localhost address and only used internally. Change it to the IP Address of the PC on which SageDCT is running. Don't have it up right now, but I seem to remember an option in the SAGEDCT config that asked if you wanted to use the localhost address. If there is you can deselect it.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

Tom,

I agree with fresnoboy. Your cable company seems to be giving you the blow off because they don't want to research the matter properly or dare call their feeds provider for a solution.

I'd "stir it up" and ask them for a written response to your problem. I'd then send that response back certified to the CEO of that company (along with my total outlay/loyalty to them over the years) asking them to look into it.

Comcast pulled the same line with me about "no on demand" and "missing premiums" with the Prime (so don't use it anyway) but that didn't stop me; it got fixed after a few days of complaining.

SiliconDust support may also be able to help you with the tech questions you'd need answered.

john

What would be the basis of my complaint? The way I understand it they are within their right to set the channels to copy once. I don't mind stirring the pot, but I need to know what to stir it with

[jlmdxtv]

Tom,

I think the basis *for me* would be that "every other cable provider" is marking premiums with copy once, and most, if not all, the others are unflagged.

Of course I'd have no proof is such a statement, but clearly at least Comcast and Verizon are doing it this way in much of the country.

Companies like SiliconDust and Centon are making a living selling thousands of devices to the enthusiast market that make use of this CC standard - and not all of us are running WMP. This may be new for a lot small cable companies like yours, but they'll need to learn how to please their paying tech-savvy customers too.

I'd also check is see if your provider is broadcasting any local community channels and ask how those ended up protected? I'm rather sure no community channel has put a request in to be flagged as "copy once".

Check out the SiliconDust and Centon support sites to see if they can help you with getting the nomenclature correct.

john

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by ranger

127.0.0.1 is the localhost address and only used internally. Change it to the IP Address of the PC on which SageDCT is running. Don't have it up right now, but I seem to remember an option in the SAGEDCT config that asked if you wanted to use the localhost address. If there is you can deselect it.

There's an option on the settings tab for "Replace Path" and by trial and error I determined that this correctly indentifies the path to the tuners. If you choose to save with something other than localhost you aren't given any further options, so I assume that it substitutes this replace path when it saves the assignments.

But I am not using an MCard yet, so if SageDCT communicates with the MCard that's why I'm not getting any channel assignments. I've tried just using the native SageTV video source wizard, but it also seems to have a problem communicating correctly with the tuners, so that when I scan I get an error:

Watch request failed.
ERROR(-12): There was a null object requested to playback.

So how do I tell Sage where to find the tuners? Also, I noticed that it only finds tuner 1 not 0, which is also enabled. (I disabled tuner 2)r

So I'm making progress, and it would probably work with an MCard, but I don't want to do that right now. Just want to use the QAM tuners until after I move.

Update: I guess it's unclear what I mean by "find a tuner." It clearly knows that there is at least 1 HDHRP tuner available, but it is apparently also using the localhost address, because it can't communicate with the tuner. So, it's doing the same thing that SageDCT was doing... I guess.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

There's an option on the settings tab for "Replace Path" and by trial and error I determined that this correctly indentifies the path to the tuners. If you choose to save with something other than localhost you aren't given any further options, so I assume that it substitutes this replace path when it saves the assignments.

But I am not using an MCard yet, so if SageDCT communicates with the MCard that's why I'm not getting any channel assignments. I've tried just using the native SageTV video source wizard, but it also seems to have a problem communicating correctly with the tuners, so that when I scan I get an error:



So how do I tell Sage where to find the tuners? Also, I noticed that it only finds tuner 1 not 0, which is also enabled. (I disabled tuner 2)r

So I'm making progress, and it would probably work with an MCard, but I don't want to do that right now. Just want to use the QAM tuners until after I move.

Update: I guess it's unclear what I mean by "find a tuner." It clearly knows that there is at least 1 HDHRP tuner available, but it is apparently also using the localhost address, because it can't communicate with the tuner. So, it's doing the same thing that SageDCT was doing... I guess.

SageDCT is NOT going to work with the Prime as a ClearQAM tuner. You will need a cablecard to have SageDCT work with SageTV.

Gerry

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

But I am not using an MCard yet, so if SageDCT communicates with the MCard that's why I'm not getting any channel assignments. I've tried just using the native SageTV video source wizard, but it also seems to have a problem communicating correctly with the tuners, so that when I scan I get an error:
.
.
.
Just want to use the QAM tuners until after I move.

You can use the Prime just as a clear QAM tuner. I did this before I got my Mcard setup. You just need to follow the instructions for the HDHR tuner.
From memory (so dont put too much faith in it )... You need to set Sage as the app in the HR setup. Then you need to do a channel scan in the HR setup. This will create a scn (I think) file in the correct sage directory. Then you need to do the scan in sage in the tuner setup area after that and it will go pretty quickly as it just uses that file that HR setup spat out. I think that's it. Again.. from memory so don't trust 100%.

I made sure I edited the channels in the hr setup to match my numbers in my guide before I hit "apply". I found it sucked to have to remap in sage.

Good luck!

Jim

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

You can use the Prime just as a clear QAM tuner. I did this before I got my Mcard setup. You just need to follow the instructions for the HDHR tuner.
From memory (so dont put too much faith in it )... You need to set Sage as the app in the HR setup. Then you need to do a channel scan in the HR setup. This will create a scn (I think) file in the correct sage directory. Then you need to do the scan in sage in the tuner setup area after that and it will go pretty quickly as it just uses that file that HR setup spat out. I think that's it. Again.. from memory so don't trust 100%.

I made sure I edited the channels in the hr setup to match my numbers in my guide before I hit "apply". I found it sucked to have to remap in sage.

Good luck!

Jim

I assumed that using the HDHR setup instructions was the way to go, and did all of the above. I'm not sure where the HDHR setup program placed the scn files though. I edited the channel numbers and call signs to conform to Zap2It, and they play on QuickTV, but the scan fails in Sage. Again, I suspect this is because the location of my tuners are something other than local host, and it just confuses the SageTV wizard. I need to give SageTV a different dot-4 address for the relevant ports, and don't know how.

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I assumed that using the HDHR setup instructions was the way to go, and did all of the above. I'm not sure where the HDHR setup program placed the scn files though. I edited the channel numbers and call signs to conform to Zap2It, and they play on QuickTV, but the scan fails in Sage. Again, I suspect this is because the location of my tuners are something other than local host, and it just confuses the SageTV wizard. I need to give SageTV a different dot-4 address for the relevant ports, and don't know how.

I don't think you need to do any of that. My properties in the encoder section have no mention of an encoding host... That's only for the network encodes like firewire and the DCT stuff. and my scn files showed up in:
C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\Silicondust HDHomeRun Tuner [tuner number]-0-0-QAM.scn

I didn't have to edit ANYTHING in the properties file to get my prime to work as a clear QAM. IRRC....

mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/available_channels=
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/brightness=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/broadcast_standard=QAM
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/contrast=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/device_name=
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=true
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/hue=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/last_channel=113-1008-805
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/provider_id=xxxxxx
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/saturation=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/sharpness=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/tuning_mode=Cable
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/tuning_plugin=
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/tuning_plugin_port=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/video_crossbar_index=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/100/0/video_crossbar_type=100
mmc/encoders/741616527/audio_capture_device_index=-1
mmc/encoders/741616527/audio_capture_device_name=
mmc/encoders/741616527/audio_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/audio_processor=
mmc/encoders/741616527/capture_config=299008
mmc/encoders/741616527/default_device_quality=
mmc/encoders/741616527/delay_to_wait_after_tuning=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/device_class=DirectShow
mmc/encoders/741616527/dshow_tv_type=
mmc/encoders/741616527/encoder_merit=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/encoding_host=
mmc/encoders/741616527/forced_video_storage_path_prefix=
mmc/encoders/741616527/last_cross_index=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/last_cross_type=100
mmc/encoders/741616527/live_audio_input=
mmc/encoders/741616527/never_stop_encoding=false
mmc/encoders/741616527/video_capture_device_name=Silicondust HDHomeRun Tuner mynum-0
mmc/encoders/741616527/video_capture_device_num=0
mmc/encoders/741616527/video_encoding_params=Great
mmc/encoders/741616527/video_processor=

[phelme]

Per another thread about the "halt" topic I tried setting buffer sizes to the defaults, RTP - 65531 and Write - 1024, since then my "halts" have ceased. SageDCT ends up using even more of the CPU, up to 30% all tuners going under Sage (my never ending issue ), but I'll take that over recording failures.

But, I've run into something I'm wondering if anyone else has. I've tried to install v2.20 and have had no luck with it. ConfigureSageDCT simply refuses to run for me on that version; it doesn't crash, just never opens. So I had to fall back to 2.18. Could it be because I'm on XP?

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

Tom,

I think the basis *for me* would be that "every other cable provider" is marking premiums with copy once, and most, if not all, the others are unflagged.

Of course I'd have no proof is such a statement, but clearly at least Comcast and Verizon are doing it this way in much of the country.

Companies like SiliconDust and Centon are making a living selling thousands of devices to the enthusiast market that make use of this CC standard - and not all of us are running WMP. This may be new for a lot small cable companies like yours, but they'll need to learn how to please their paying tech-savvy customers too.

I'd also check is see if your provider is broadcasting any local community channels and ask how those ended up protected? I'm rather sure no community channel has put a request in to be flagged as "copy once".

Check out the SiliconDust and Centon support sites to see if they can help you with getting the nomenclature correct.

john

I'll give it a shot.

All the locals and community channels are copy freely, so that's not an issue.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I assumed that using the HDHR setup instructions was the way to go, and did all of the above. I'm not sure where the HDHR setup program placed the scn files though. I edited the channel numbers and call signs to conform to Zap2It, and they play on QuickTV, but the scan fails in Sage. Again, I suspect this is because the location of my tuners are something other than local host, and it just confuses the SageTV wizard. I need to give SageTV a different dot-4 address for the relevant ports, and don't know how.

The Prime works exactly the same as the standard HDHR for QAM channels. To install in Sage you follow the same instructions. Make sure Sage is stopped when setting up the Prime and doing the scan. Make sure in the HDHR setup program you choose SageTV as the primary app and you select "digital tuner" instead of "cableCARD" for each tuner type.

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

The Prime works exactly the same as the standard HDHR for QAM channels. To install in Sage you follow the same instructions. Make sure Sage is stopped when setting up the Prime and doing the scan. Make sure in the HDHR setup program you choose SageTV as the primary app and you select "digital tuner" instead of "cableCARD" for each tuner type.

Yes, there is no *.scn file on my computer anywhere. The channels work on QuickTV, so I assume the lack of such a file means that Sage must've been running when I did the first scan. I turned off Sage when I ran SageDCT, but didn't know to turn it off for the HDHRP setup. I assume all I need to do is rescan and it should work?

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

Yes, there is no *.scn file on my computer anywhere. The channels work on QuickTV, so I assume the lack of such a file means that Sage must've been running when I did the first scan. I turned off Sage when I ran SageDCT, but didn't know to turn it off for the HDHRP setup. I assume all I need to do is rescan and it should work?

And make sure the app is set to sage. Is your sage program in the normal spot?

Jim