SageTV acquired by Google

[Brent]

Originally Posted by photon

EPG data is critical isn't it?. Without it they brick the entire installed user base don't they?

Not essential, but very important. If they did "turn off" the EPG data, you CAN still get EPG data via other sources - that's what GBPVR and others do today. It's just not as easy and it does cost a bit. I personally believe (hope) they will leave EPG data on for a while - possibly a long while. We'll just have to wait and see.

[RazorUK]

Been a long time user of Sage since V3, bought my original license on PCAlchemy, and have upgraded to V7 and enjoyed the journey.

I feel I am currently standing at a crossroads and don't know what path I will have to take.

Luckily I have options, I have xbox360's in each room, so I could go that way if need be. I am hoping that Sage as I know it stays around, and worst case the 7.19 update I just applied will work until the future is more clear. Hopefully my HD100, 200 and 300 keep on ticking whilst the transition is under way

Either way, SageTV changed my viewing habits for the better many years ago, not sure how my entertainment will work out if it goes away.....

[Shield]

I use Sage mostly for playing back movies for my kids, and recording local HDTV with a HDHomerun. My concerns are first about losing EPG data, but then what's next? YouTube changes code and then that stops working. Weather no longer functions. You see where I'm going with this. I just bought my 3rd extender last week - I just hope it will forever remain at least a video/picture/music playback device.

The optimistic side of me sees Google putting out a new client/server version and we can upgrade our HD300's via firmware. I can dream, can't I?

[Trepidati0n]

First...congrats.

My $0.02

Since 2004...SageTV has been the cornerstone of my media life. SageTV is and has the BEST DVR/PVR backend in the industry. Name me one other player in the market who supports such a wide array of cards and methods to record TV. Name one other player that can stream to any TV in your house for a $150. Name one other player that whle supporting that can also stream any other form of media (music, photos, videos) as well. Name one other player that besides that fostered a user community to tweak it so well.

While SageTV didn't have all the new wiz bang features...it did the most important things right (record TV and stream it). This is why I always stuck with SageTV. Yes, I never got my Netflix or cablecard support. But neither of those were ever a "real issue". It took me one more click for Netflix on my remote and a modest cost for a HDPVR.

I don't know what is going to happen next. I don't know. I just hope that we get a little heads up to either part ways nicely (fall shows ar 4 months away) or be excited for what is next.

[toony]

My first reaction was 'Oh No'. My wife's first reaction 'that cant be good' and she is far from a techie. Though to put pessisim aside, it is whatever it will be.

Truth be told I haven't been all that happy with my system as of late. I was pretty pissed with the store closure as I was going to buy an HD300 to replace one of my HD200s.

I find this all very typical, and not surprising to say the least. In fact I was saying to a friend about 6 months ago that I wouldn't be surprised if Sage is bought out by someone like Microsoft. I was half right.

I'm hoping for good things, but preparing for the worst. That's all I think anyone can do at this point.

It's given me an excuse to looking elsewhere like MCE. But in the meantime it still works, kinda, Collossus is just messing things up.

On the bright side I'm sure there will be an app for Android, which I just switched to from Iphone.

Anyway I give the Sage team a big congrats for the business deal, I'm sure they did well.
For us users, let's wait and see.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by whurlston

In the case of EPG data, there are several alternatives that produce XMLTV data that can easily be used. Side note: I know that SHS mentioned Schedules Direct but I should warn you that you would be violating the Schedules Direct TOS since SageTV is not a free or open source software. Given the userbase, you may end up forcing TMS to revoke their agreement with Schedules Direct which would not do the HTPC community any good.

Now that SageTV is no longer a commercial applications so how would that still violating the Schedules Direct TOS.

[david1234]

Originally Posted by stevech

I'm left in the lurch, cannot get Sage 7 License upgrade from Sage 6. I just got HD-PVR working, with HD300. I went to the store to buy the upgrade to Sage 7 and that's where I saw the Google notice.

My Sage 7 trial is ending.

I can hope they sell or otherwise sell a license, but I suspect the jump-ball is in the air now, on who is authorized to sell. So in a day or so, I have no server unless they extend the trial or sell a license.

I'm in the same boat, I'd been planning to upgrade to 7 this summer, but now I'll have to wait and see what happens next.

I tried out the 7 beta early on (on an old box), and it was just fantastic, but I didn't want to mess with things while the "tv season" was still going just in case. It would have really impacted life negatively if my wife's shows suddenly stopped recording mid-season!

[ranger]

As far as congratulating anyone at SageTV, I don't really feel like it. This change is NOT good news for most users of SageTV. What we have come to know as "SageTV" is now dead. The store is closed, the official support channel is no longer published. Unless they re-open in the next week or so, we can assume that what ever rises out of the current dust and confusion will NOT be what we had last Monday morning. Until then, the best we can hope for is that the EPG keeps getting updated and that the plugin server stays up. The BEST that could happen would be the open sourcing of the final build of SageTV, but that is doubtful. Google wanted and bought the IP for a reason. They won't go this route until they are well established and ready to leverage the technology.

This doesn't mean the party is over. SageTV and quite likely GoogleTV are now both evolving into something different. What is it going to be? I have a few ideas, and think it will be something inline with what GoogleTV was supposed to be and will be heavily tied to streaming content. Will they pick up the DVR side? I tend to think they will, but my fear is that we may not like it. They could add more tuner support, Netflix, and all the other "great" ideas we as users had for SageTV. Then again to get this, they will probably burden us with things like DRM, inline commercials, and track our viewing habits.

Sorry, but while the technology survives, it will change. There is no turning back the clock.

[mayhewda]

Just logged in and was going to download the latest beta code. This is a very surprising turn of events and dont know what to make of it. I guess , as others have said, congratulations to Jeff and the sage team!

Now, what are they going to do, take their newly acquired riches and head to a beach somewhere? Or will they become a part of Google, with a better funded development staff and be able to do some of things they have wanted to do but perhaps didnt have the backing to achieve?

I built my own server a few years ago and run Sage under WHS (V1). I have mulitple extenders and have had lots of fun ripping and watching movies around the house, storing and viewing pictures and music.

With finding out in Feb past that MS has killed DE and even though their are now becoming alternative solutions, there is really no upgrade path to WHS V2. Now, we find this news about Sage. These two products together truly provided a unique experience in home entertainment.

It is hard to see this as a positive step and feel we are truly at a crossroads or turning point in the home server/entertainment era. Just dont know if this the end of a good era and the beginning of a great era or not. Time will tell. Look forward to Sage enlightening us on whatever direction it is heading.

[dstanley]

Just wanted to add my name to the list of people sending congratulations to SageTV for their sale of their product - it is an outstanding, unique-in-its-field program - it was just a matter of time before it came into 'someone's' radar - hopefully we will be lucky that it was Google and not Microsoft.
That being said - I found this thread late last night - a quick check before I went to bed - wow - what a shock! Needless to say I had a very restless sleep ...
Let's hope that somewhere some negotiations for current SageTV user's 'right's' were included in the deal - I would think so - I believe that Jeff would care too much about his product and users to 'let us down'.

[gabrielcab]

Originally Posted by whurlston

First, let me say congratulations to the SageTV team. I would like to curse you and say vile things but that would be pure jealousy talking.

Please allow a perspective from a non SageTV user (some of you know me as vladd on AVS).

SageTV users are nowhere near as bad off with this announcement as some of you believe. Lets assume the worst for a moment and say that Google kills off SageTV as Yahoo did with Meedios. You still have a good working piece of software that is capable of lasting for a very long time. Your only real issues are:

1. EPG data feeds ceasing.
2. Hardware failing in the case of extenders.
3. Inability to purchase new extenders or PC client licenses.

Now lets look at those:

In the case of EPG data, there are several alternatives that produce XMLTV data that can easily be used. Side note: I know that SHS mentioned Schedules Direct but I should warn you that you would be violating the Schedules Direct TOS since SageTV is not a free or open source software. Given the userbase, you may end up forcing TMS to revoke their agreement with Schedules Direct which would not do the HTPC community any good.

In the case of extender/PC clients. Not much you can do there in regards to SageTV but lets look at alternatives. SHS has some good options in his poll. You guys have some very talented third party developers that would be wonderful additions to any of those communities. It would almost be trivial to add a SageTV community touch to some of those projects. I'll discuss the one with which I am most familiar as an example.

NextPVR (GB-PVR) uses PCH NMTs for extenders (similar to your extenders) and can also use PC clients. Although the main software is closed source, it has a very extensive plugin structure (sound familiar?). I'm sure that MVallevand who does the main development for the PCH extenders would welcome help from developers interested in working with the extenders. It would probably even be possible to create a port to use your existing extenders with NextPVR.

For other functionality, I'm already working on DCT support for NextPVR and I'm willing to work with anyone who owns an R5000-HD (MKANET) to add support for it. It should be quite possible, I'm just not in the position to purchase one myself.

Most of the other options (like MediaPortal) are open source and any of your developers could contribute code to add the functionality/features that you want.

You guys are in a much better position that you realize, especially with the size of your userbase.

The only real bad thing that could really happens is that Google stops selling HD Extenders, and maybe placeshifter, nothing more, the EPG can be fixed with plugins and/or tweaks, and the client license or server license will become easy to find using the same google search for sure.

This sagetv + extenders is so freaking stable "at least for me" that sometimes that stability scares me.

This is not the end of the world, i bet all my extenders for it

[IVB]

I think my first version of SageTV was V2, I still use the stock GUI as the wife has learned how to use it.

Her reaction was "did we own any SageTV stock"? When I told her it was private, she said "why didn't you try and invest"?

Damnit, that would have been useful advice 2 weeks ago

[SHS]

My first version of SageTV was v1 build 41 date 1/1/2003 then 8 years later

[Evil_Attorney]

Originally Posted by SHS

My first version of SageTV was v1 build 41 date 1/1/2003 then 8 years later

I started in November of 2004 with version 2. It's been a long time and I'm sad to see at least this iteration of Sage die.

Congrats to Jeff and co on the purchase. As my law school Torts professor was famous for saying, "Back up the money truck!"

[peternm22]

Originally Posted by SHS

Now that SageTV is no longer a commercial applications so how would that still violating the Schedules Direct TOS.

I just contacted Schedules Direct about this. They said they would need an exception from their provider (Tribune) to do it. It's not without precedent though, they got an exception for WiRNS/ReplayTV.

[reggie14]

I'm not convinced Rakesh's analysis is correct when he says Google bought SageTV in order to get access to folks with experience writing code for Sigma-powered boxes. There had to be easier ways to do that. Nor am I convinced Sage was acquired for the placeshifter technology, as the Gigaom editorial said. That wouldn't be hard for Google to recreate, and honestly Sage's implementation doesn't seem that great. I don't think they ever put that much effort behind it.

As I said before, it seems like the only reason to buy Sage is for its DVR technology. Rakesh is right that aftermarket DVRs haven't been successful, but DVRs have been. I think TiVo just hasn't done enough to make them noticeably better than cable company provided DVRs, yet they charge pretty high amounts for them. Still, I don't think aftermarket DVRs will ever be hugely popular.

But, that's what worries me. Its pretty easy for a big company like Google to hedge its bet by buying a company like Sage, just in case they ever want to add DVR technology to their GoogleTV platform. It's also pretty easy for Google to buy the company, spend a million or two dollars on development, and forget about it a year or two later.

The Sage guys needed to keep Sage alive when it was their company, because at the time it was their livelihood. GoogleTV, and even more so the new SageTV component of Google, will never be Google's livelihood.

By the way, does anyone know if acquisitions like these result in any public records? I'm just curious what Google bought SageTV for. Despite all the big talk earlier in this thread, I'm guessing it wasn't a huge amount. Substantial, sure, but I'm guessing not enough for a relatively young guy to retire off of.

[IVB]

seriously, i have a TON of work to do for my day job, but yet I can't help but stop by these forums every 4.5 minutes to see if Narflex/et al have posted anything. I swear I had my CC out yesterday ready to buy the HD300 & V7, it took months to get up to that mental point of parting with my $$, this is so unfulfilling!

I hereby swear to stop checking these forums and this thread at least for the rest of the day. Well, maybe work day. Meh, if I make it another 30 minutes i'll be happy.

[polen]

I love speculating... Maybe Google is building a massive DVR with a tuner for every channel available. Looked at WMC and quickly said, "NO!!", then found this little company Frey with SageTV, which could handle the massive number of tuners and huge disk space, so that it could control the future of the product they bought it. Now GoogleTV devices become extender/placeshifters to this Cloud DVR.

[Brent]

I'm not expecting to hear anything from Jeff (Narflex) at this point. He's at the mercy of his new employers now and employee's of Google don't tend to talk much - unless they have PR at the end of their name.

I hope to get a response from Google by tomorrow and I'll post here and on GeekTonic the moment I have something. Who knows, by then perhaps Google will share with all of us by then on sagetv.com or google/sagetv etc etc. This is not the end of everything guys. I think we'll be fine in the short-run at least and hopefully even longer. Give it some time and we'll know more.

[whurlston]

Originally Posted by peternm22

I just contacted Schedules Direct about this. They said they would need an exception from their provider (Tribune) to do it. It's not without precedent though, they got an exception for WiRNS/ReplayTV.

That's good news. One less thing to worry about then.