Confirmed SageTV 7 & HD PVR Bug. (I Think...;) )

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Of course having said that, I broke down and bought my first Hauppuage HD-PVR about 5 weeks ago. So far I've had no problems with it (knock on wood). Its been plugged in to a UPS and I haven't cycled power to it since I got everything working.

Hey Tiki. When I see a post like this I always have to ask... Are you using digital or analog audio? Thanks.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

Hey Tiki. When I see a post like this I always have to ask... Are you using digital or analog audio? Thanks.

Analog (RCA Jacks).

[EnterNoEscape]

I am using digital and having been noticing similar issues on a handful of recordings, so I'm thinking the audio input doesn't influence this issue.

[QueOnda]

Can you verify you don't have a DCP latency issue?

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

I am using digital and having been noticing similar issues on a handful of recordings, so I'm thinking the audio input doesn't influence this issue.

That's why I asked. Problems ONLY occur for me with digital. If I switch to analog my 3 HDPVRs are rock solid. I bet if Tiki went digital he'd also have issues... Just a guess though.

[EnterNoEscape]

Oops, I somehow overlooked that post about not having problems...etc.

[toricred]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

That's why I asked. Problems ONLY occur for me with digital. If I switch to analog my 3 HDPVRs are rock solid. I bet if Tiki went digital he'd also have issues... Just a guess though.

I'm not so sure. I've got 4 running all using digital and the only time I've had problems have been when my DirecTV box has problems or there's too much going on with a HDD.

[jorton]

Originally Posted by toricred

I'm not so sure. I've got 4 running all using digital and the only time I've had problems have been when my DirecTV box has problems or there's too much going on with a HDD.

Same here, I have 3 units running all using digital audio and have been rock solid with 7.0.x betas. I might even push my luck and give 4 HD-PVR units a try

My problems seem to have always been cable box related or self induced by messing around with my system during recordings.

Jeremy

[bhyman1]

To those with issues, are your HD-PVR's plugged into a USB port physically soldered to the motherboard?

I've always found doing that eliminates a lot

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by toricred

I'm not so sure. I've got 4 running all using digital and the only time I've had problems have been when my DirecTV box has problems or there's too much going on with a HDD.

I agree. I actually think it's a signal problem with the box that causes the issue initially. However, the HDPVRs are somehow able to handle it when using analog. Switching to digital causes lockups 1-2 a week. I bet if you switched to analog you'd see your lockups go away completely. Maybe not though.

I've tried everything trying to get these things to work with digital audio. NFL sounds so much better in full high def audio goodness. But, I'll take consistent performance over better sound every day.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

I agree. I actually think it's a signal problem with the box that causes the issue initially. However, the HDPVRs are somehow able to handle it when using analog. Switching to digital causes lockups 1-2 a week. I bet if you switched to analog you'd see your lockups go away completely. Maybe not though.

I don't use the SPDIF connection since (1) I don't have the proper cable, and (2), I only have 2 speakers for playback, so there would be no benefit to 5.1 recordings (at least for the foreseeable future).

However, I can see where with analog, if the signal from the box went away, the HDPVR wouldn't notice, since it would be no different than just a silent scene. On the other hand, with a digital signal, even if there is silence being broadcast, there is still probably some digital communication going on, so the HDPVR would probably know the difference between "silence" and "loss of signal". And, I can see where the HDPVR might have logic to detect a loss of signal and shut down or try to re-establish a connection.

This is all just speculation, but it seems logical to me why it might have more problems with a loss of signal from a digital source than an analog one.

...

Oh and by the way, I am using one of the USB ports soldered to the motherboard on the back of my PC. I do not have any USB add-in cards or external USB hubs installed on my Sage PC.

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Tiki

However, I can see where with analog, if the signal from the box went away, the HDPVR wouldn't notice, since it would be no different than just a silent scene. On the other hand, with a digital signal, even if there is silence being broadcast, there is still probably some digital communication going on, so the HDPVR would probably know the difference between "silence" and "loss of signal". And, I can see where the HDPVR might have logic to detect a loss of signal and shut down or try to re-establish a connection.

100% agree.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

100% agree.

Have you tried a new optical cable?

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Have you tried a new optical cable?

I've tried everything else. I guess that couldn't hurt. First I'm going to get the cable company to come out and signal test the input to the cable boxes (been saying that for 6 months ). Anyone know a place to buy an inexpensive signal tester?

[AlphaCrew]

While the original topic has veered off the road a bit, It's interesting to note some testing I completed with the change in topic.


Removed and Reconnected TOSlink cable during a recording:
1) Blue record indicator light turned off.
2) Audio dropped (Expected)
3) Video dropped (un-expected) but makes sense.
4) Did not cause the "length" time error in Windows 7 (recording would show 8-9 hour length regardless of actual length.)

So this could indeed be a STB (or I suppose a cable) problem after all. I just finished replacing all my cables so we shall see.

Support return "no problem" in SageTV after reviewing my log file.

While this is hardly evidence of where the true issue lies, it does indicate that a bad signal to the HD PVR can Almost reproduce the exact resulting error in the recorded video.

PS: I notice something else during this test.. Ticking the "Watch" box no longer stops the recording cycle in the latest version of SageTV. As a matter of fact nothing, short of canceling the recording, will stop it..

EDIT: Happened again with all the new cords..

[shatter]

I was thinking of "upgrading" from v6.6 to the latest v7 beta release and came across this post. I have noticed this same thing happening recently on my v6.6 SageTV setup running XP Pro SP3 and a HD-PVR (driver 1.0.5.301). I am using the Component+SPDIF connection option in sage (digital audio is via optical cable). I am recording from a Dish Network Solo 211k receiver.

I am rarely in the room with the HD-PVR when it records but I swear that I noticed the light flicking off and back on before and thought I was crazy. Then I was watching live tv on it a week ago and sure enough it went down for about 3 seconds and then fired back up. The screen froze and then started working again.

So, this doesn't appear to be a Version 7 issue but is being caused by something else. I have been running Java 6r10, norton ghost, eventghost, skype and APC Powerchute on the server also so no idea if any of those could be a cause either.

[AlphaCrew]

Well, after a lot of testing, I can safely say that SageTV, at the very least has a some part in this issue.

I know how to recreate the problem at will now on my system, and here is how:

Start a recording process in SageTV, let it record for about 5 min, then copy a large file directly to the system HDD (I did this via a mapped network drive, so transfers where across LAN). Typically the problem occurs immediately, however sometimes the problem occurs several min. during the transferred to the HDD. This will cause SageTV to keep stop and starting the recording until the transfer is complete.

Out of 17 test alternating between the ArcSoft recording software and SaveTV; SageTV drop the signal 17 times. ArcSoft never once lost the signal.

So the bottom line is that over tasking the HDD ?? creates some issue with SageTV, that does not exist with the ArcSoft software. This makes perfect sense, as I have never seen the problem when recording with ArcSoft.

I would submit another ticket with my findings, but support is 110% convinced there is nothing wrong with SageTV in this matter.

Dual Core ATOM ION
4 Gigs Ram
Windows 7 Pro
Gigabyte LAN (Trans to HHD run about ~48 MB/s)
7200 WD Black Drive

[jerryt]

submit a ticket anyway...

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

Can you verify you don't have a DCP latency issue?

The brevity of this post belies its importance, may have caused it to be overlooked. I would like to thank QueOnda for this suggestion, and emphasize the usefulness of the DPC Latency Checker in monitoring a strong source of stream disruption and dropouts. The web page has helpful info too, in understanding media dropouts.

I would submit another ticket with my findings, but support is 110% convinced there is nothing wrong with SageTV in this matter.

The use of a number higher than 100% seems consistent with increased irritation and decreased objectivity. May I respectfully suggest that your overemphasis and phraseology may not be characterizing their position correctly? All they can go on is what the built-in info sensors and error detection has detected and logged or reported, from both their own software and the numerous sub-systems that are involved. Their reputation is very good, and from all reports are nearly as interested as you in resolving your issues. When a user reports an issue, but all systems are reporting nominal, there is nothing they can fix, without further research. Typically, the fastest way to a resolution is for both you and the support individuals to maintain objectivity, and work together as a team. Be open to ANY plausible idea, whether it agrees with your suspicions or not.

Just a technicality, but I wanted to suggest care in referring to SageTV as a monolithic entity. When I am eating with others and a dish containing apple components is offered, it is easiest for me to say "I am allergic to apples". But an apple contains thousands of compounds, most of which are quite common to other edible items, to which I am not allergic. So technically, if I wanted to take the time (and be annoying to others!), I should say "I experience symptoms consistent with a certain form of allergic response when I consume an unknown compound found within apples or associated with their processing." The advantage of this longer expression though, is that it does suggest more avenues of research, to isolate the true source of the issue. All to say that it helps to remember that SageTV is actually a huge system consisting of numerous sub-systems, many of which are written and maintained by the SageTV developers, but many of which are not (Java, many codecs, renderers, and drivers, etc). As an example (but probably not related to *your* dropouts), I have had numerous problems in the past with the Java garbage collector (on an old and slow computer), as well as with other background processes that disrupted smooth recording. That's why I do think that the suggested latency monitor may be useful, to isolate the source of your issues.

[ldw58]

For whatever it's worth, I've found that the act of turning on my flat-screen monitor that the DirecTV box is directly connected to through HDMI (in addition to being connected to the HDPVR) will cause the HDPVR to hiccup.

Changing the input source on the monitor during the recording will also cause the HDPVR to hiccup.

Also turning the monitor off will cause it hiccup ('hiccup' meaning that the blue band of light on top the HDPVR goes off for a few seconds and then reappears and the physical recording is paused during that time).

For me, if I want to watch the monitor during a time when the DirecTV box is streaming something SageTV is recording I turn the monitor on prior to the sage recording starting and then make sure it's on the input source for the HD-100 (which is what I have it hooked up to now).

Nothing I do on the HD-100 impacts the HD-PVR.

If I want to turn the monitor on or off during a SageTV recording I resign myself to the fact that the recording will have a 10-15 second impurity.