New Server - SageTV+unRAID under ESXi 4.1

[Gog]

That's what I understood, but why not?

With one box network latency can be neglected and with the cache drive performance should be fine. You could use one of these for cache, but something smaller should be able to handle 24h of recordings...

Why would you specifically put these two drives out of the array?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Gog

Why would you specifically put these two drives out of the array?

I'd keep them out of the array for space, really. I don't necessarily need RAID protection for most of my tv recordings, but space would be nice to have.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Gog

That's what I understood, but why not?

Why would you specifically put these two drives out of the array?

Mainly, I don't care for redundancy on my recording drives, and I don't care to have my recordings in the "pool".

[stanger89]

So, a bit of a snag, or maybe hit the snag earlier than I was expecting. I wasn't paying attention and was going to move my recording drives over to my new server, only to realize I'm short an SATA port. Thought it had 6, but it's only got 5 + esata, so it appears I've run out of spots sooner than expected.

So for the short term, I'm first going to try swaping my ESXi datastore over to IDE (still got an IDE port open on that board) or failing that, I think I'll get an eSATA to SATA cable. But regardless, looks like I'm going to need an SATA controller sooner than later. So anyone got any ideas? The best looking option right now is actually a Dell SAS6/iR adaper, it's a PCIe x8 SAS adapter that's supposedly supported by ESXi, and it's pretty cheap. My biggest concern is if it would work in the x16 PEG slot in my motherboard or not...

[Fuzzy]

you could probably get buy just using a port multiplier. As for putting an x8 card in a x16 slot, it SHOULD work fine. There are a few motherboards out there that have problems with anything but a graphics card in there, but that is usually fixed with an updated BIOS.

(I actually ran an x4 card in an x1 slot for a while on an old motherboard, before updating.. took some fine dremel work on the slot though...)

[stanger89]

Yeah, I've looked into PMPs, but they're expensive, seem somewhat fiddly, but most of all I don't think my motherboard supports them. It might on the eSATA but I've not been able to find any solid info on it.

[Fuzzy]

I'd bet the board supports them. If it's new enough to have an eSATA port on it, than it most likely supports the multipliers. The chipset doesn't know any difference between the eSATA, and standard SATA ports, so if it supports it on one, it'll probably support it on any. Regardless, if it's too expensive, than it doesn't really matter. I think you can get 5x1 PMP's for about 60 bucks. Surprised their prices haven't fallen, but it's probably just a function of low production numbers.

[stanger89]

Know any good sources for PMPs? That's been the biggest trick, is actually finding any.

[Fuzzy]

I think Addonics is probably the biggest name in them, and they run their own store. Though, at those prices, I wouldn't bother, especially if you've already got a spare PCIe x>1 slot. About the only point i can see to using multipliers at current prices, would be to add more drives to a good hardware raid card, without having to buy a bigger/second hardware raid card.

[stanger89]

So, hit a bit of a stumbling block, for soem reason I can't get my R5000 to actually work right. The driver installs, communication works, and I can use it in the sense that I can start and stop recordings. But it's plagued with constant buffer overflows.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by stanger89

...it's plagued with constant buffer overflows.

I am not surprised by that.

[Fuzzy]

That's a constant problem with the R5000 software in general, they simply don't do buffering well. I'm thinking the best option in that case, unfortunately, would be to restrict the R-5000 recordings to a 'local' windows drive, and use SJQ or something to move them to the UnRAID. Sucks, but the R-5000 is just that finicky. I don't envision they will be making any more changes to the R5000 software wither, as their primary customer base is pretty much gone (Dish Network 211's are pretty much vanishing from the market).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by valnar

I am not surprised by that.

What has me sort of confused is that I thought it worked before, but admittedly it's possible I just saw that the recording commenced and assumed all was OK, but the bigger source of confusion is that the HD PVR appears fine and it pushes probably at least twice the data rate.

I'm going to have to ponder options, maybe "break down" and abandon the R5000 for another HD PVR, or have two machines....

The one thing I would like to figure out is if it's disk throughput (seems unlikely given the HD PVR and HDHRs are fine) or something with the USB/capture software...

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

That's a constant problem with the R5000 software in general, they simply don't do buffering well. I'm thinking the best option in that case, unfortunately, would be to restrict the R-5000 recordings to a 'local' windows drive, and use SJQ or something to move them to the UnRAID.

As a reminder I'm not recording to the unRAID, I'm recording to "local" storage, actually tried the unraid, local and my existing SageTV server and it didn't matter.

Sucks, but the R-5000 is just that finicky. I don't envision they will be making any more changes to the R5000 software wither, as their primary customer base is pretty much gone (Dish Network 211's are pretty much vanishing from the market).

Yeah, I'm not that thrilled with it i don't expect any help/updates from Nextcomm.

[Fuzzy]

Yeah, I was surprised enough that they released the 3.1d drivers. Either way, so you are recording to a physical windows accessed drive, or a virtualized image?

[stanger89]

I've tried the RDM passthrough "physical" drive, an unRAID (VM) share, and the network shares of my normal server records to. Also (previously) tried the Caviar Black (normal recording drives) but local to the VM via RDM passthrough.

Again though, this is just the R5000, the HDHR and HD PVR seem fine.

[Fuzzy]

It may very well be the USB connection. I know I originally had quite a few issues with varying USB adapters over the years of using the R-5000's. Perhaps the extra layer of virtualization is enough to throw it off. I'm not totally away of how ESXi deals with the USB connections. Are you connected to a specific USB device, or is it giving the OS direct PCIe access to a specific USB controller? the latter is likely to be better with the finicky R-5000.

[stanger89]

I'm using the USB passthrough, my board doesn't support PCI passthrough.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm using the USB passthrough, my board doesn't support PCI passthrough.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking... That's probably the source of problems... I know that using the onboard USB on a few of my motherboards simply would always give buffer overflows, even when NOT virtualizing.. so any extra delays in there would likely crap it up something good. I think the problem is the R5000 Hardware itself has very little buffering in it, so if it can't offload it to the USB controller and to the system quick enough, it will lose that data (as it gets overwritten by what's coming in). You'd think with the cost of the R-5000, they could have added an extra SDRAM chip on there for further buffering, but that didn't happen.

[DigitalMan]

I'm using the USB passthrough, my board doesn't support PCI passthrough.

In my own testing, the ESXi 4.1 USB passthrough seems to be quite slow. I'm not convinced it provides a good enough environment for tuners at the moment.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The best looking option right now is actually a Dell SAS6/iR adaper, it's a PCIe x8 SAS adapter that's supposedly supported by ESXi, and it's pretty cheap. My biggest concern is if it would work in the x16 PEG slot in my motherboard or not...

FYI, I've run its younger brother (Dell Perc 5/i) for over a year in a PCIE X16 slot with no issues. In my new server I am running a 5/i on a x16 slot that only does PCIE x4 with no issues either (just limited bandwidth, but 1GB per second is still plenty).