Recommended OTA HDTV Dual Tuner

[Fuzzy]

I have heard from multiple people that the AGC on the HDHR isn't aggressive enough at knocking down hot signals, especially as it is probably the most sensitive tuner on the market. the CM4228 is a massive antenna (designed for about 60+ miles), certainly WAY too big for only 17 miles from the towers. An attenuator would probably be needed there.

[jasonl]

The tuner/demod in the newer HDHomeRun revision (device IDs starting with 1013 and higher) is extremely difficult to overload. We've tested performance to roughly +40dBmV and seen no ill effects. This would be roughly 170% signal strength, and is strong enough that most amplifiers would overload before the tuner ever would.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by jasonl

The tuner/demod in the newer HDHomeRun revision (device IDs starting with 1013 and higher) is extremely difficult to overload. We've tested performance to roughly +40dBmV and seen no ill effects. This would be roughly 170% signal strength, and is strong enough that most amplifiers would overload before the tuner ever would.

I think I have a newer revision (device is 1018F836), and the CM4228 is in the attic, with a 50' run of RG6.

Just to rule out too much signal (as I'd love to be able to use my HDHR), how accurate is the "signal strength" indicator? For my problem channels, it hovers in upper 80s or low 90s, while snq bounces around. If I were getting too much signal, I'd expect the ss to be pegged at 100.

Thanks,

Drew

[jasonl]

Signal strength will normally top out somewhere between 95 and 100 depending on the exact calibration of the device.

What stations specifically are problematic?

[drewg]

Originally Posted by jasonl

Signal strength will normally top out somewhere between 95 and 100 depending on the exact calibration of the device.

What stations specifically are problematic?

Depends where in the attic it is. It originally was WRAL (48) and WRAZ (49) (which both are owned by the same company, and share a broadcast tower). If I moved the antenna about 10 degrees, I could get one stable, but not the other. I then moved the antenna around to various locations, and finally settled on a location about 6 feet higher, and right next to the attic wall. In that location, WRAL and WRAZ are both fairly stable (still get 1 or 2 glitches per hour on HDHR, while lgdt3303 tuners are perfect), but WNCN (17) (in same tower farm as WRAZ/WRAL) is much more glitchy than on my other tuners.

Here is status from 17:
ch=auto:17 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=74 seq=100 bps=19394080 pps=1842

This snq on this channel was steady in the 90s before I moved the antenna to stabilize WRAL/WRAZ. It now varies from the 80s down. Recordings on it via the HDHR are glitchy, while recordings made of the same program at the same time (on the same machine) using any of my internal tuners are perfect.

Contrast this to a station 60 miles away on my west facing CM4228, where the signal info is: ch=8vsb:29 lock=8vsb ss=74 snq=100 seq=100 and which is pretty much perfect.

Drew

[jasonl]

Those signal strengths seem very low for 17 miles with a 4228. Anything metal in the way? Metallic radiant barrier, stucco wall, aluminum siding? Is there a hill between you and the towers?

[drewg]

Originally Posted by jasonl

Those signal strengths seem very low for 17 miles with a 4228. Anything metal in the way? Metallic radiant barrier, stucco wall, aluminum siding? Is there a hill between you and the towers?

No, no radiant barrier or stucco, or aluminum siding. Just hardy plank (fiber cement) siding + some thin, man-made wood sheathing (like really thin particle board), plus hills, plus trees.

Again, any other tuner is fine, only the HDHR has issues. Last night I did 2 simultaneous recordings of one of the problem channels. The recording was perfect with the 5 year old Dvico Fusion HDTV5, and glitchy with the HDHR. I'm beginning to think I'll need to move the antenna out of the attic to get a reliable signal with the HDR.

Drew

[jasonl]

Does the reception improve in winter when there are no leaves on the trees? Dynamic multipath from leaves moving in the wind is one of the most difficult things to resolve with digital reception.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by jasonl

Does the reception improve in winter when there are no leaves on the trees? Dynamic multipath from leaves moving in the wind is one of the most difficult things to resolve with digital reception.

I think so. At least it was went from bad to unusable as spring came, and then I moved the tuner to its current spot, which is much better (almost above the neighbor's fruit tree, which is just outside that side of the house, and directly between the antenna and the towers).

Probably not something you're willing to share, but do you see yourselves doing a new OTA revision with a tuner/demod that does better multipath rejection? As I've repeatedly said, even a 5 year old LG based Dvico Fusion is rock solid while the HDHR is glitchy. The only other digital tuner I have that's as bad at multipath rejection as the HDHR is an ancient nxt2002 based Air2PC from 2004.

I'd be really eager to buy an HDHR with a decent tuner, as I love the concept, and I love your support. You guys remind me of my company, just a different niche. I'd be more than willing to beta test a new hardware rev, as I've clearly got an "interesting" reception problem.

Thanks,

Drew

[jasonl]

Our current focus is on the HDHomeRun Prime. We are not at a point where we can discuss any potential products to come after that.

[RedCoat999]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Not usually unfortunately. Most stations seem to like cramming subchannels on rather than maximizing quality, so the HD stream (which when Sage is recording is all that's sent, well technically just the subchannel that's desired) is usually "significantly" lower than 19.4Mbps, like probably on the order of 12-16Mbps.

I've not had any luck with putting the tuner at one end of my powerline ethernet, and the computer at the other end. Getting too many dropped packets or something like that. Does the latest dual-band wireless N have enough stomach to cope with multiple streams reliably?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by RedCoat999

I've not had any luck with putting the tuner at one end of my powerline ethernet, and the computer at the other end. Getting too many dropped packets or something like that. Does the latest dual-band wireless N have enough stomach to cope with multiple streams reliably?

In a perfect environment, sure... but a home in a neighborhood with multiple 2.4GHz devices (phones, RF remotes, etc) is far from ideal... Honestly, the only way to ensure it'll work all the time, is to run CAT5. it 'just works'.

[RedCoat999]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

In a perfect environment, sure... but a home in a neighborhood with multiple 2.4GHz devices (phones, RF remotes, etc) is far from ideal... Honestly, the only way to ensure it'll work all the time, is to run CAT5. it 'just works'.

I'll buy you a case of beers if you want to come over and help me run that cable!