I love the HD-PVR - I hate the HD-PVR

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by stanger89

What I mean is Avermedia, DVICO, Silicondust, AFAIK no other "TV card" manufacturer includes IR blasters on their devices, I believe Hauppauge is the only one. Not saying that excuses Hauppauge from their crappy implementation, but without their crappy implementation, everyone would have to buy a USB UIRT or the like (which wouldn't be a bad thing IMO).

That's not entirely accurate. Avermedia does include the MCE IR blaster with some of their combo devices. I'm not sure about DVICO. And an IR blaster wouldn't be very useful with an HDHR, so of course Silicondust doesn't offer one.

Hauppauge is a little unique in that they include IR blasters in most, if not all, of their tuners. But, in the specific case of the HD-PVR, they really don't have a choice. It needs the IR blaster to do what it's advertised to do out-of-the-box. You can't say that about the other tuners, where you'll often expect users to either use the digital tuner for QAM/ATSC or the analog tuner. So, I think it's more than reasonable to expect Hauppauge to do a decent job with their IR blaster.

That being said, I fully expect to use firewire channel changing with my new HD-PVR. I have a USB-UIRT sitting around as the backup.

[pawn]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, it's a discussion forum and nobody here has a problem with discussion, but it's just standard forum etiquette to search first, and try to post to an existing thread, at least if it's reasonably active (no necroposting )

I know, I know. You're right. It's just that everything has been working well for so long, I'm grasping for post material so I can finally hit 500 posts after 6+ years.

[davephan]

I've been using the USB-UIRT for a few years now, and I am thinking about getting a second USB-UIRT, just for a spare in case it ever stops working.

Dave

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

That's not entirely accurate. Avermedia does include the MCE IR blaster with some of their combo devices. I'm not sure about DVICO. And an IR blaster wouldn't be very useful with an HDHR, so of course Silicondust doesn't offer one.

Hauppauge is a little unique in that they include IR blasters in most, if not all, of their tuners. But, in the specific case of the HD-PVR, they really don't have a choice. It needs the IR blaster to do what it's advertised to do out-of-the-box. You can't say that about the other tuners, where you'll often expect users to either use the digital tuner for QAM/ATSC or the analog tuner. So, I think it's more than reasonable to expect Hauppauge to do a decent job with their IR blaster.

That being said, I fully expect to use firewire channel changing with my new HD-PVR. I have a USB-UIRT sitting around as the backup.

How do you know if your satellite or cable box will accept either serial or firewire connections? How many sat/cable boxes could you theoretically control from one computer?

[jarredduq]

Originally Posted by davephan

Are you using a USB-UIRT or the built in Hauppauge IR device? I found that the HD-PVR is not stable using the built in IR device, and is stable using the USB-UIRT.

Dave

I second this fix. My HD-PVR has been nearly perfect since moving to the USB-UIRT. After spending all the money to get my system up and running, $60 is a drop in the bucket.

I do wish though that manufacturers would not release partially working products. I know some users though have not had any issues with the built-in blasters, so I digress.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

How do you know if your satellite or cable box will accept either serial or firewire connections? How many sat/cable boxes could you theoretically control from one computer?

I don't have any experience with serial channel changing. For firewire, the first thing to do is to check if your STB even has a firewire port. If so, check the list of STBs on this site to see if your STB is supported in the drivers. And if it's on there, then the only way to know for sure is to try it. Some cable companies don't offer STBs with functioning firewire ports, even though they're suppose to. You won't know until you try it.

If it does work, there really isn't a limit to the number of STBs you can control. I mean, I'm sure there's a theoretical limit, but it should be well above whatever you want to do.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I don't have any experience with serial channel changing. For firewire, the first thing to do is to check if your STB even has a firewire port. If so, check the list of STBs on this site to see if your STB is supported in the drivers. And if it's on there, then the only way to know for sure is to try it. Some cable companies don't offer STBs with functioning firewire ports, even though they're suppose to. You won't know until you try it.

If it does work, there really isn't a limit to the number of STBs you can control. I mean, I'm sure there's a theoretical limit, but it should be well above whatever you want to do.

Thanks - I'll check those out

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I don't have any experience with serial channel changing. For firewire, the first thing to do is to check if your STB even has a firewire port. If so, check the list of STBs on this site to see if your STB is supported in the drivers. And if it's on there, then the only way to know for sure is to try it. Some cable companies don't offer STBs with functioning firewire ports, even though they're suppose to. You won't know until you try it.

If it does work, there really isn't a limit to the number of STBs you can control. I mean, I'm sure there's a theoretical limit, but it should be well above whatever you want to do.

OK, I've grabbed the file, and my set top box is on the list and does indeed have 1394 inputs (2), which seem to be active since Vista recognized that something had been attached. I installed the drivers - now I'm lost as to what to do next. Do I re-boot Sage and tell it to use these drivers somehow?
thanks

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

OK, I've grabbed the file, and my set top box is on the list and does indeed have 1394 inputs (2), which seem to be active since Vista recognized that something had been attached. I installed the drivers - now I'm lost as to what to do next. Do I re-boot Sage and tell it to use these drivers somehow?
thanks

Vista is a moderately uncommon platform around here for a server. You might run into more problems than other people. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, it's just a warning.

Here is a thread that discusses firewire channeling changing, and even tuning, in depth. It's a very long thread, but the first post has links to other posts that are particularly helpful.

In your case, the FWchannelProxy tool might work well. I'm going to try to set it up when I get another firewire box (hopefully in the next few days), but I haven't tried it yet. Documentation is a little sparse, but it sounds like it might be pretty easy to set up.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Vista is a moderately uncommon platform around here for a server. You might run into more problems than other people. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, it's just a warning.

Here is a thread that discusses firewire channeling changing, and even tuning, in depth. It's a very long thread, but the first post has links to other posts that are particularly helpful.

In your case, the FWchannelProxy tool might work well. I'm going to try to set it up when I get another firewire box (hopefully in the next few days), but I haven't tried it yet. Documentation is a little sparse, but it sounds like it might be pretty easy to set up.

Actually, I'm running Sage Media Center. But thanks for the link - this looks a little daunting to me, but I'll grab a big drink and have a go.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Vista is a moderately uncommon platform around here for a server. You might run into more problems than other people. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, it's just a warning.

I don't seem to have any unusual problems with the HD-PVR / SageTV running on Vista. Like others, my biggest issues have been the PVR locking up and/or channel not changing occasionally and that's with the Hauppage IR blaster.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Actually, I'm running Sage Media Center. But thanks for the link - this looks a little daunting to me, but I'll grab a big drink and have a go.

Actually, the setup is quite easy. I just got done with it on my system.

So, it sounds like you already have the drivers installed. I don't know where it put them, but somewhere it installed the firewire stb drivers, and that installation has a console application channelw.exe. Start up a command prompt, navigate to that folder, and run "channelw.exe -v". It should list a few difference devices, numbered 1 through n, depending on how many tuners you have (it seems to list some non-firewire related things). Figure out what number is your AVC panel device. It's likely its 2 (and will assume that's what it is for the rest of this explanation).

Shut down Sage. Download the files off the FWChannelProxy page, and copy channel.dll and FWChannelProxy.dll to your Program Files/SageTV/Common folder. Rename the FWChannelProxy.dll file to FWChannelProxy2.dll (or replace 2 with whatever number you got above).

Start up Sage. Add your HD-PVR as a source. When you tell it that to configure tuning for the cable box, you should see an open to select FWChannelProxy2. Select that. Then you're pretty much good to go. Finish adding the HD-PVR as a source and enjoy!

[alisonnic]

I've had a lot of problems with my HD PVR. Not just the IR Blaster, but also problems with the PVR freezing in the middle of recordings, leaving me with half a program. Also sometimes recordings would be complete but would have little glitches in them.

I had other problems too. At first I couldn't get SageTV Client to play the HD recordings created by the PVR and SageTV. Also the HD recordings are huge, so if you want to keep a lot of recordings for a while, you'd better have hard drive space in the terabyte range. SageTV includes a conversion facility, but it's not easy to determine what's the optimum conversion format for your purposes.

Also, even though I have some decent PC hardware for both server and client, I had trouble with choppy playback on both computers using any of SageTV's default video setup choices.

Thanks to sic0048, I've gotten my IR Blaster working reliably (and tweaked my Dish VIP211k to stay alive). I think most of the other problems I had with the PRV (freezing, glitching) were due to overheating.

Solutions:

1. IR Blaster is now working great. See these threads:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44511 - superb How-To by sic0048

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44448 - more details about the IR Blaster problems I had and their resolution.

2. Overheating. At first I had the HD PVR sitting on top of my VIP211k. Bad idea. The VIP gets very warm (and stays that way even when it's "off&quot. The PVR is very sensitive to heat, and the later versions (I have Rev E1) have no fan. I moved the PVR to a different shelf, away from all the other hardware (VIP, DVD player, DVD-R) where it would be able to stay cooler. But I still had glitches and the occasional freeze until I put it on top of a laptop cool pad that I had lying around. Now it's been reliable (knock on wood) for several days.

3. Playing HD recordings on SageTV Client. This requires installing an H.264 decoder on the client machine. See this thread:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44457

4. Conversion formats. I put together a spreadsheet that shows what file sizes will result from converting an HD recording into almost all of the formats available in SageTV's converter. I've also included other information about the output file, including dimensions, frame rate, etc., that may help in estimating the quality of the converted file. See:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44496

5. Choppy playback. I resolved this after considerable tweaking in the Video / Audio section of SageTV's Detailed Setup. I ended up turning on hardware acceleration and setting Video Renderer to Default. (I'll be glad to post all my V/A settings if anyone's interested. Also if anyone has any better suggestions, I'd welcome them!)

I'm now delighted with my HD PVR. No hate at all. I just wish all this information had been available in one place, such as in a flyer that came with the PVR, instead of scattered through the forums.

FWIW, I did a lot of searching before I posted my threads. I'm sure the answers to at least some of my questions were in the forum, but the information is so scattered that even with diligent searching it's hard to track down.

Also, like another poster mentioned, when you first get the HD PVR and SageTV, you don't know enough to really understand what you're reading. With a complex setup like this (SageTV, SageTV Client, HD PVR, IR Blaster, VIP211k) there is a lot to know, and it takes a while and some significant fiddling to get the foundation of knowledge necessary to get it all working together.

And there are some obscure tricks (uninstall SageTV before installing Hauppauge drivers and the Arcsoft H.264 decoder; set up the VIP211k to never turn itself off and set up a timer every night to turn it back on after its update) without which you just can't get everything working.

That's why I'm so grateful to sic0048 for putting together the How-to on the Hauppauge IR blaster.

Actually, I'd love to see a hardware subforum devoted to the HD PVR. There are so many things that are different about this, compared to other TV tuners, that I think it deserves a place of its own. It's not just the IR Blaster; the HD format itself introduces a whole new set of problems.

And as Windows 7 enters the mix, I bet things are going to get even more... interesting.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by alisonnic

Actually, I'd love to see a hardware subforum devoted to the HD PVR. There are so many things that are different about this, compared to other TV tuners, that I think it deserves a place of its own. It's not just the IR Blaster; the HD format itself introduces a whole new set of problems.

And as Windows 7 enters the mix, I bet things are going to get even more... interesting.

Totally agreed on that - there is a sub-forum for the Media Extender, and since they operate in-concert, this would be a big help to future, and current owners.

[Savage1701]

I did not read all the other helpful posts, so if I appear to repeat or plagiarize, please forgive me.

If you google my MB you will see it is one of the monster ones that has 10 external ports plus 4-6 headers inside. That's too many.

Other posters are correct - I can overload my system easily with 2 ATSC USB sticks, 2 USB-PVR2's, an HD-PVR, an external hard drive (at one point, no more) and all such high-bandwidth stuff. I could probably plug 10 USB keyboards, mice, webcams, etc. in and never notice it.

I have steadily tracked every USB-based encoder, be it ATSC, regular, or HD-PVR to problems with my machine's ports. The poster who said don't plug one in above the other is 100% dead-on accurate. That's a kiss of death for me as well.

Here are my keys for stability:

1. Buy a $30 x1 NEC-chipset-based USB 2.0 card. If you have a free x1 slot, use it instead of PCI for your spare USB 2.0 ports. Others may argue with me on this, but x1 lanes are dedicated and the bandwidth is NOT shared with other slots like PCI is (and often your integrated GbE nic which will eat bandwidth like crazy). Sole exception may be some server boards. Also, retail MB's do all sorts of tricks to hotwire their boards to, say, get 10 USB ports on the back of it.... :-). My HD-PVR has been virtually faultless since going to the x1 card, as has one of my formerly problematic ATSC sticks and then one of my PVR-USB2's. I'd even do this if I only had 2 HD-PVR's

2. I use a lot of hard drives. I will replace and use fewer as capacity goes up and price comes down, with a goal of 8TB of storage. I have 9 right now - 7 mechanical and 2 solid state. Make sure your PS can handle this. Mine could not, even at an alleged 600W and supposedly being server-grade. Get a Corsair or PC Power and Cooling or anything with a SINGLE 12V rail. All this multi-rail stuff is a marketing joke at best and an electrical problem at worst since you have almost no way of knowing which rail is going where or how it is divided. I used a second PS hotwired on all the time and powering 5 of my hard drives. Lots of problems started vanishing. Remember, every cold spin-up of a hard drive take 2 amps at 12V and 1 amp at 5 volts. That's a lot considering all other components draw at startup as well. My problem showed up when my RAID controller started verifying 7 drives at once at 1:00AM in the morning.

3. Watch out for green drives if they spin down and appear to have dropped out to your system. This is a real issue on RAID controller cards. They will also have short life expectancies because of head load/unload cycles.

4. Try to make as many of your tuners as you can be PCI or PCI-express based. Fewer USB tuners = fewer problems. I know you can't with the HD-PVR's so save the ports for them.

5. I never let my HD-PVR upgrade its drivers, not do I let TME do it, as they now hide their H.264 decoders.

6. Demo some decoders. I've had great luck with Core, Main Concepts, and Cyberlink. They will almost always give you a 30-day trial and they don't hide their decoders. They even usually include utilities to test them and to raise their merits. Googling "HD Pack" may be a good idea, but I'm not saying you should for anything but reference.

7. Win7 is a different animal in how it handles decoders. Go to the Core forum if you are going to use a Win7 for your system.

8. I have several Pentium D systems, most of which handle H.264 fine, but you ought have a good video card. Mine are XP-based. Vista could be pushing it here.

9. You can also demo SuperSpeed's SuperCache program. If you are willing to let your pages sit dirty, it has a write-back option. It also has a read-ahead option. Both, if used properly, can make a system MUCH faster. Best to have a good defragmenter to keep the read-ahead hit rate high (I use O&O on my mechanical OS disks) and a UPS if there is a power cut and your dirty pages have not been flushed yet. OOPS - STRIKE THAT. SS IS ONLY FOR XP AND SERVER. SORRY. I DON'T THINK IT DOES VISTA.

10. Get the USB-UIRT. Hauppauge makes multiple sku's of many of its cards for system builders and MCE setups. They will fight for the sole IR blaster channel Hauppauge is capable of providing. You will lose that fight. If you don't, by the time it's over, odds are you will be sitting in the "rubber ramada" catatonic on Haldol, wishing you had lost the fight and wondering if you will ever be able to piece back together the shattered mess your life has become. :-) The USB-UIRT sidesteps all of that and gives you 3 blasters. There are diagrams on the web showing you how to get 2 blasters out of the 1/8" stereo port. I can point you to that page if you can't find it in here.

Just a few thoughts. Best of luck to you. You are smart for using HD200 extenders, as a client is nothing more than a new set of problems on a different computer that draws 30X the wattage of the extender. The extender is pretty cheap considering it includes a client-type license.

[dadof4]

Originally Posted by alisonnic

2. Overheating. At first I had the HD PVR sitting on top of my VIP211k. Bad idea. The VIP gets very warm (and stays that way even when it's "off&quot. The PVR is very sensitive to heat, and the later versions (I have Rev E1) have no fan. I moved the PVR to a different shelf, away from all the other hardware (VIP, DVD player, DVD-R) where it would be able to stay cooler. But I still had glitches and the occasional freeze until I put it on top of a laptop cool pad that I had lying around. Now it's been reliable (knock on wood) for several days.

I don't know what Hauppauge is doing to the new Rev E1 units but unlike yours mine seem much cooler.

Had my two HD-PVR (Rev. C2 with fans) units replaced with Rev. E1 units. My entire system's sever, HD-PVRs', HDHR, and cable boxes are all in our walk-in closet. It did not take long to realize the E1 units generate a lot less heat than the C2 units. The closet is noticeably cooler. The HD-PVRs' simply generate less heat and I'm not talking about just the units running cooler. My wife noticed the difference also. It's really obvious. Both units have been running flawlessly for about a month.