Headless Server: Worth A UPS?

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Might be worth spending the $20 on a kill-a-watt or it's equivalent. That will tell you for certain how much current these devices are pulling, then you can size from there.

Just got done hooking up the new UPS. Gotta say that this whole project (pulling coax, pulling Cat5, setting up the wiring closet..) has been an obsessive-compulsive's wet dream. So many cables to align and bundle just so.... so many patch cords to trim to exact lengths, so many power cords to color code.... -)

APC's utility says my server box is only drawing 75 watts. Doesn't sound possible to me. Got a Kill-A-Watt laying around here *somewhere*.... now I've got to find it.... ("I know where everything is: it's on my desk.")


Question: Is there any issue with Sage running as a service getting shut down? I've got the UPS utility set to tell the server box to initiate shutdown after one minute without power.

Will Sage handle that situation gracefully if, for instance, it's recording a TV show or two or three?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Just got done hooking up the new UPS. Gotta say that this whole project (pulling coax, pulling Cat5, setting up the wiring closet..) has been an obsessive-compulsive's wet dream. So many cables to align and bundle just so.... so many patch cords to trim to exact lengths, so many power cords to color code.... -)

Isn't it great, if completely nerdy

APC's utility says my server box is only drawing 75 watts. Doesn't sound possible to me. Got a Kill-A-Watt laying around here *somewhere*.... now I've got to find it.... ("I know where everything is: it's on my desk.")

Seems a little low, especially if anything else is plugged in but it depends on what the server is doing. With drives spun down, no real GPU running, and some of the more advanced sleep states it's not that unusual.
My gaming rig 19" CRT playing a video game maxed out at about 210w. The 1000w PSUs that are out there are mostly overkill for all but the most powerful systems.

Question: Is there any issue with Sage running as a service getting shut down? I've got the UPS utility set to tell the server box to initiate shutdown after one minute without power.

Will Sage handle that situation gracefully if, for instance, it's recording a TV show or two or three?

Well, it won't hold up the shutdown if that's what you're asking. As for handling the shutdown gracefully, Sage usually just drops the recordings and re-schedules if possible.

[rdefino]

Here's a story. A year ago i had the CA for a week. I had no ups on the server. It broke and i was to lazy to buy a new one. I leave o a Monday, that afternoon we have a really bad rain storm. We lose power, power supply in the server dies. My wife has no TV till I get home...5 day later. She wasn't to happy.

Always use a UPS. Cheap insurance.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Well, it won't hold up the shutdown if that's what you're asking. As for handling the shutdown gracefully, Sage usually just drops the recordings and re-schedules if possible.

Sounds like it's what I expected: no problem. My only concern was Sage getting it's DB corrupted.

Originally Posted by rdefino

...bad rain storm. We lose power, power supply in the server dies. ...no TV till I get home...5 day later.

From that, I'll impute what I was hoping: that I can somehow set up the PC (BIOS setting?) so that the power comes back on, it just boots itself up and resumes business as usual. Right now, post-shutdown, somebody has to walk over to the closet and push the "Start" button.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

From that, I'll impute what I was hoping: that I can somehow set up the PC (BIOS setting?) so that the power comes back on, it just boots itself up and resumes business as usual. Right now, post-shutdown, somebody has to walk over to the closet and push the "Start" button.

Yes, there should be a BIOS setting for that.

The corollary is that you should be running Sage in Service mode (if you're not already) so it can resume recording without waiting for somebody to log into Windows.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

That would have to be one of the higher-end ones that runs the inverter all the time - instead of just cutting over in event of a power failure, right?

Or are the cutover types sensitive enough to also protect against spikes?

i think the one i had was no more than $50 and will run for 9 minutes before shutting the server down...

i believe all APC UPS' have voltage conditioning, with changeable presets in the utility (works on both mac and windows) the settable range is something like 96 volts to 132 volts or something like that.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Sounds like it's what I expected: no problem. My only concern was Sage getting it's DB corrupted.


From that, I'll impute what I was hoping: that I can somehow set up the PC (BIOS setting?) so that the power comes back on, it just boots itself up and resumes business as usual. Right now, post-shutdown, somebody has to walk over to the closet and push the "Start" button.

Not from a regular shutdown. The recording will be lost but Sage will shut down same as if you did it. It's the sudden power outage that could cause corruption.

As for the power status there will be an option in your bios, usually with three settings: off, on, & previous status. Change it to on and the computer will try and boot any time the PSU gets power.

As pointed out in another thread if you're using cable boxes that won't turn them back on though. The slick fix for this would be to have a script turn off the boxes during shutdown and on during startup. If the power went out they'd already be shut off but would still turn on at startup. Yet when you shut down the server manually it wouldn't accidentaly shut them off at startup.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by Djc208

As for the power status there will be an option in your bios, usually with three settings: off, on, & previous status. Change it to on and the computer will try and boot any time the PSU gets power.

That was the first thing I fooled around with. Seems like on my Asus board it only applies to situations where the power was cut unexpectedly - as opposed to a system shutdown.

Now I'm thinking maybe some kind of jumper on the mobo.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

That was the first thing I fooled around with. Seems like on my Asus board it only applies to situations where the power was cut unexpectedly - as opposed to a system shutdown.

That's right, if the SW shuts it down it stays down until you start it up manually. If the power stays out long enough to drain the UPS battery, then when the power comes back on (if the UPS switches back on automatically) then the BIOS would restart the computer too. The BIOS will not restart a computer that's been shutdown, only one that lost power, if the UPS shut it down it never lost power. A UPS would have to detect when the power went from battery to mains and it would have to know that the computer was shutdown, then it would have to cycle the power to that outlet in order for it to work. I know of none that are that smart.

[briands]

I have a small APC UPS for my cable modem and router and it seems the battery has failed. It was <$50 anyway, but I'd rather replace the battery than buy a whole unit. Anyone have a recommendation for replacement batteries?

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

The BIOS will not restart a computer that's been shutdown, only one that lost power, if the UPS shut it down it never lost power. A UPS would have to detect when the power went from battery to mains and it would have to know that the computer was shutdown, then it would have to cycle the power to that outlet in order for it to work. I know of none that are that smart.

Seems like there must be *something* bco all the unattended PCs out there - server farms (whatever they are...) and all that.

Sounds like you're saying that the AC power seen by the PC never goes away - even after the UPS has issued it's shutdown request.

If that's the case, I can see that there's really no hope.

OTOH, if the UPS never withdraws AC, it would seem that it's battery would be doomed in the long run from an unattended outage - if only by the trickling into the PC's power supply.

??

[Shield]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

My SageTV server is about to take up residence in the rec room's closet - along with Verizon's power box, a router, a switch, and a couple of HD HomeRun tuner boxes.

Question: What's the consensus of the value of a UPS in there? The assumption being that the UPS would talk to the server and initiate a graceful, totally unattended shutdown in event of power failure.

On one hand, I think "It's just television, who cares?"

On the other hand, although I've never had a Windows XP problem from pulling the plug on a PC yet; the cynic in me says that the first time the power goes out I'll have some kind of major drive/system corruption as a result of a power loss.

Is it a no-brainer either way?

Opinions?

I have UPS's on everything in my house, and they do in fact do graceful shutdowns (I have even setup email notifications to both work and home telling me when the power goes out). It's not only the question of hard shutdown, but what about power spikes/surges/etc? I'd do it for sure. Also, I highly recommend the new APC units; they have USB connectivity and the coolest front LED display that will show you runtime, and my favorite, watts usage. And you can set the display to "always on" so anytime you want to see how much power you're consuming you can.
Shawn

[sandor]

Originally Posted by briands

I have a small APC UPS for my cable modem and router and it seems the battery has failed. It was <$50 anyway, but I'd rather replace the battery than buy a whole unit. Anyone have a recommendation for replacement batteries?

http://www.apc.com/tools/upgrade_selector/


they are really good about it.

[BlueH2O]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Think of it as a voltage regulator for your AC supply (which is very poorly regulated by the utility).

This is a good point. I can see from logs generated by my UPS that the voltage changes quite a bit throughout the day..

Originally Posted by briands

I have a small APC UPS for my cable modem and router and it seems the battery has failed. It was <$50 anyway, but I'd rather replace the battery than buy a whole unit. Anyone have a recommendation for replacement batteries?

Mouser Electronics sells the same batteries APC uses, at half the price.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

Seems like there must be *something* bco all the unattended PCs out there - server farms (whatever they are...) and all that.

Sounds like you're saying that the AC power seen by the PC never goes away - even after the UPS has issued it's shutdown request.

If that's the case, I can see that there's really no hope.

OTOH, if the UPS never withdraws AC, it would seem that it's battery would be doomed in the long run from an unattended outage - if only by the trickling into the PC's power supply.

??

The low end cyber-power units I have all operate the same way. Once the power goes out the software initiates the shutdown per your settings (mine is 60 seconds after). Once the computer is shut down the UPS shuts off power to the outlets.

When power returns the unit clicks on to battery power, tests the line voltage and then switches back to regular AC, all in a second or two. At this point the PC will reboot since it had lost power at the outlet and everything is good.

In fact that's how I found out the battery had died in my old UPS. The unit couldn't sustain the load for that second or two before switching back to AC.

[S_M_E]

I've had cyberpower, belkin and apc units that didn't power back on after AC came back on, maybe they've changed...

EDIT:
I just found a setting in the software manual for one UPS that I own has a setting that does reboot the UPS when AC is restored. Unfortunately, I can't install the required UPS software on Vista64. So it looks like the newer units may have that option, in SW, if it supports your OS. Now I'm not sure how it would work if you allowed the OS to manage the UPS, without the UPS SW installed, though...

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I've had cyberpower, belkin and apc units that didn't power back on after AC came back on, maybe they've changed...

Well the power went out at home on Tuesday (my alarm will text message me), and was out for about two hours. The UPS is set to shut down after about 60 seconds. When I got home the server was up and running as usual. Surprisingly the cable box was on too.

I know the UPS on my server is on is the same model as the one it replaced which was about 3 years old when I retired it, and unless you physically click the off switch (or the battery is shot) it will re-power when the AC comes back.

[LehighBri]

I'm intrigued. Any recommendations on a reasonably priced UPS? Don't need anything overly powerful.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Djc208

When I got home the server was up and running as usual. Surprisingly the cable box was on too.

I can't count the number of times I've had to hit the power switch after power outages but perhaps it's because I'm not installing the UPS SW.

Originally Posted by LehighBri

I'm intrigued. Any recommendations on a reasonably priced UPS? Don't need anything overly powerful.

I'd suggest pricing a UPS locally, shipping on a UPS can be expensive. After you see the local prices you can shop online to see if you can beat it. If your power requirements are low a 500A will work fine. It depends on load and if you want to shutdown right after the power goes out or maximize runtime by waiting until the battery is low before shutting down. I prefer to try to wait out a power outage so I usually get larger units.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by briands

I have a small APC UPS for my cable modem and router and it seems the battery has failed. It was <$50 anyway, but I'd rather replace the battery than buy a whole unit. Anyone have a recommendation for replacement batteries?

Check at http://www.batteryspec.com too, they've been the cheapest I've found so far...